Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground" in FL

[walksalone]

Wow, no shortage of sh*thouse lawyers...

[Junior]

I'm slightly hesitant to post this because it will probably degrade into an argument over why people are interested in it instead of what it actually contains but there is some interesting stuff. They even admit that a lot of it is somewhat circumstantial but there is quite a bit of smoke there.

 

Page 1 - Page 2 - Page 3

 

This is the part I find most interesting (from Page 3):

 

When checking out Trayvon put two dollar bills in his hand carrying the bag.

Trayvon finished his purchase at 6:24 and left the store.

A minute later, 6:25, Larry, Moe, and Curly enter the store.

Curly has two dollar bills in his hand, and initially buys two Blunts.

Curly decides to buy another blunt and goes into his own wallet for more money.

Curly leaves the building around 6:28 while Moe is checking out.

50 Seconds Later at 6:29 Trayvon is seen walking back toward the Retreat at Twin Lakes saying something in parting to someone standing near the enterance door.

At 6:30pm (according to phone records) Trayvon calls “DeeDee” back. Presumably while en route back home. Trayvon had his hands-free phone ear buds on when he left. The Retreat is less than a half mile away. The actual Brandy Green Townhouse is .60/mile away.

Approximately 35-40 minutes after Trayvon leaves the 7-11 George Zimmerman sees Trayvon entering the retreat via the walk through “shortcut”. At 7:09 George Zimmerman calls police while watching Trayvon at/near the “Club House”.

Trayvon is shot at 7:17pm according to the shot heard on the 911 call tapes.

It took Trayvon 40 minutes to walk less than 1/2 mile from the 7-11 (6:29pm to 7:09pm) to the clubhouse while talking to DeeDee?

The Skittles and Watermelon Juice were found on Trayvon’s body when he was shot, but not the blunts.

The hands-free phone ear buds were in his pocket when he was shot, as was the button he was wearing.

 

Most of the people who don't believe Zimmerman play the "he was just going out for Skittles" card. If he was just going out for Skittles then headed back home, why did it take him 40 minutes to walk a distance that should be easily covered in 10-15 minutes, especially for a healthy teenager?

 

Even if it were true, I'm not sure why smoking a little pot would mean Martin should be shot. Man, I hope Zimmerman doesn't go to Abel on a Friday night, it'll be a bloodbath.

 

Then there's Zimmerman's history:

http://usnews.nbcnew...ce-officer?lite

 

• In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
  

• In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
  

[Mavric]

I'm slightly hesitant to post this because it will probably degrade into an argument over why people are interested in it instead of what it actually contains but there is some interesting stuff. They even admit that a lot of it is somewhat circumstantial but there is quite a bit of smoke there.

 

Page 1 - Page 2 - Page 3

 

This is the part I find most interesting (from Page 3):

 

When checking out Trayvon put two dollar bills in his hand carrying the bag.

Trayvon finished his purchase at 6:24 and left the store.

A minute later, 6:25, Larry, Moe, and Curly enter the store.

Curly has two dollar bills in his hand, and initially buys two Blunts.

Curly decides to buy another blunt and goes into his own wallet for more money.

Curly leaves the building around 6:28 while Moe is checking out.

50 Seconds Later at 6:29 Trayvon is seen walking back toward the Retreat at Twin Lakes saying something in parting to someone standing near the enterance door.

At 6:30pm (according to phone records) Trayvon calls “DeeDee” back. Presumably while en route back home. Trayvon had his hands-free phone ear buds on when he left. The Retreat is less than a half mile away. The actual Brandy Green Townhouse is .60/mile away.

Approximately 35-40 minutes after Trayvon leaves the 7-11 George Zimmerman sees Trayvon entering the retreat via the walk through “shortcut”. At 7:09 George Zimmerman calls police while watching Trayvon at/near the “Club House”.

Trayvon is shot at 7:17pm according to the shot heard on the 911 call tapes.

It took Trayvon 40 minutes to walk less than 1/2 mile from the 7-11 (6:29pm to 7:09pm) to the clubhouse while talking to DeeDee?

The Skittles and Watermelon Juice were found on Trayvon’s body when he was shot, but not the blunts.

The hands-free phone ear buds were in his pocket when he was shot, as was the button he was wearing.

 

Most of the people who don't believe Zimmerman play the "he was just going out for Skittles" card. If he was just going out for Skittles then headed back home, why did it take him 40 minutes to walk a distance that should be easily covered in 10-15 minutes, especially for a healthy teenager?

I'm not sure why the amount of time it took for him to walk a half mile even matters unless were still trying to justify the shooting because we're sure Martin was up to 'something'. Any beyond that, there's no way that GZ would have known how long Martin was out.

Has anyone made this assertion or are you just sticking to your straw man?

 

It's relevant because it would corroborate Zimmerman's statement that the kid appeared to be on drugs and would validate his suspicion for following someone he (in all likelihood) didn't recognize walking though his community that didn't look like some kid who was just walking home with his Skittles.

[Mavric]

Even if it were true, I'm not sure why smoking a little pot would mean Martin should be shot. Man, I hope Zimmerman doesn't go to Abel on a Friday night, it'll be a bloodbath.

Straw man it is.

[Mavric]

 

B) Well Martin came up to him in his truck. Given that they have been having break in's i would be suspicious too. At the time there was no way that Zimmerman didn't know if he had a gun or not or that he wasn't a burglar. For all Zimmerman knew on how he was acting Martin could've pulled out a gun and killed Zimmerman.

According to Zimmerman and Zimmerman alone. You have to be able to acknowledge that there is substantial reason to doubt his story. And besides, this, if true, came AFTER he initially got out to follow Martin. If he'd never left his truck, called in the report, and driven on to the grocery store... he would've had nothing to fear and Martin would be alive.

And if Martin had taken a more reasonable amount of time to walk slightly over half a mile instead of whatever else he was doing he would have been inside before Zimmerman ever came by.

[Mavric]

 

No. But if your neighborhood had been having break ins and you saw someone wearing a hoodie acting strange and looking at houses what would you think?

 

A) Sure, because when I'm walking down the sidewalk, I always keep my eyes on my feet and never look at the neighbor's house. And I never, ever put my hood up on a rainy night or my hands in my pockets to fiddle with my cell phone.

B) I think I would call the cops and then let them do their jobs.

So we can't possible put ourselves in Martin's place because we don't understand his environment but you have no problem putting yourself in Zimmerman's place and saying what he should or should not have done.

 

Hypocritical much?

[Enhance]

And if Martin had taken a more reasonable amount of time to walk slightly over half a mile instead of whatever else he was doing he would have been inside before Zimmerman ever came by.

Had Zimmerman made the correct initial decision to inform the authorities as opposed to doing anything himself, this would not be under discussion. Martin's checkered history and inability to get home quickly are far less relevant to the story than what Zimmerman did. I'm not saying I think Martin is completely innocent, but in the same breath, we know nothing from Martin because he is dead. We have one account, and contradicting eye-witness accounts. What we do know is that Zimmerman saw a suspicious boy and did something he shouldn't, and regardless of everything that happened after or before that decision to follow, that boy ended up dead.

 

There's no reason to completely believe either side of the story, just as there's no reason to completely disregard either side.

 

I find this says a lot about a stupid law as well as cultural issues. Though not directly related, I am guilty of racial profiling all the time. I associate a young black male wearing baggy clothes with gang violence. I grew up in northwest Omaha, and went to a predominantly black school with kids that dressed like this and were in gangs. Pop culture even portrays this style as iconic. A lot of them portrayed what has in many ways become a downward spiral in parts of the black culture. Furthermore, when a young black male is arrested in Omaha (which happens often), he is typically wearing those kinds of clothes.

 

Stereotypes and profiling always have a basis in reality. It's extremely unfortunate, but people want to look out for themselves and their loved ones. Hypothetically speaking, if I have the choice of two paths, one with a black male in baggy clothes and one with a white male dressed like me, I'm going to choose the path with the white male. Is it sad that this happens? I think so. Is it wrong? I don't necessarily think it is. My experiences tell me I'm safer making one choice. It's sad but I think it's a reality.

[Apathy]

Why would you ask someone for a ride who you are profiling as a criminal who looks like he may be in the verge of breaking into a home or homes

 

I think that's the point. Why was he profiling him as a criminal? Wouldn't it be nice if he hadn't seen a black kid in a hoodie and thought "criminal!" and just offered him a ride?

Looking into houses and cutting in between houses is my guess. That neighborhood has had like 8 or 9 burglars and majority those were black. I'm sorry but if I'm walking somewhere I'm not browsing in the windows of houses like TM was

 

edit oops wrong button

[Apathy]

Why would you ask someone for a ride who you are profiling as a criminal who looks like he may be in the verge of breaking into a home or homes

 

I think that's the point. Why was he profiling him as a criminal? Wouldn't it be nice if he hadn't seen a black kid in a hoodie and thought "criminal!" and just offered him a ride?

Looking into houses and cutting in between houses is my guess. That neighborhood has had like 8 or 9 burglars and majority those were black. I'm sorry but if I'm walking somewhere I'm not browsing in the windows of houses like TM was

 

[Junior]

And if Martin had taken a more reasonable amount of time to walk slightly over half a mile instead of whatever else he was doing he would have been inside before Zimmerman ever came by.

 

And if the rape victim didn't go out to the bar that night, she wouldn't have been raped.

[Junior]

 

No. But if your neighborhood had been having break ins and you saw someone wearing a hoodie acting strange and looking at houses what would you think?

 

A) Sure, because when I'm walking down the sidewalk, I always keep my eyes on my feet and never look at the neighbor's house. And I never, ever put my hood up on a rainy night or my hands in my pockets to fiddle with my cell phone.

B) I think I would call the cops and then let them do their jobs.

So we can't possible put ourselves in Martin's place because we don't understand his environment but you have no problem putting yourself in Zimmerman's place and saying what he should or should not have done.

 

Hypocritical much?

 

What?

[Landlord]

I stopped following this a while ago...

 

 

Has Zimmerman being a "hero" and "rescuing" that family from the overturned SUV last week been discussed yet?

[carlfense]

I stopped following this a while ago...

 

 

Has Zimmerman being a "hero" and "rescuing" that family from the overturned SUV last week been discussed yet?

Yep.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

I stopped following this a while ago...

 

 

Has Zimmerman being a "hero" and "rescuing" that family from the overturned SUV last week been discussed yet?

 

My money's on him somehow causing the wreck and then conveniently coming to the rescue as a PR move.

[Mavric]

And if Martin had taken a more reasonable amount of time to walk slightly over half a mile instead of whatever else he was doing he would have been inside before Zimmerman ever came by.

Had Zimmerman made the correct initial decision to inform the authorities as opposed to doing anything himself, this would not be under discussion. Martin's checkered history and inability to get home quickly are far less relevant to the story than what Zimmerman did. I'm not saying I think Martin is completely innocent, but in the same breath, we know nothing from Martin because he is dead. We have one account, and contradicting eye-witness accounts. What we do know is that Zimmerman saw a suspicious boy and did something he shouldn't, and regardless of everything that happened after or before that decision to follow, that boy ended up dead.

It seems like a lot of people know what Zimmerman should or shouldn't have done. He should have done this or shouldn't have done that and a boy ended up dead. But what he should or shouldn't have done is totally subjective. It seems to me that most who put forth this argument leave the unspoken implication that Zimmerman still attacked Martin when he ran across him. Because if Zimmerman is to be believed - and I know there is reason to doubt even though that is totally inconsistent with his previous neighborhood watch actions - he would never have had a confrontation with Martin if it was up to him. Thus, if Martin was the attacker, the biggest blame for Martins death was that Martin did something he shouldn't (attack Zimmerman).