Trayvon Martin and "Stand Your Ground" in FL

[sd'sker]

Even though this thread is a clusterf*** of opinions, arguments, and counter-arguments, I'll jump in on this. (FTR, the jury was right by law, and Zimmerman is a dumbass).

pretty sure this thread comes down to 99% of the people posting trying to convince 1% of the people (person) of the underlined.

[Saunders]

Even though this thread is a clusterf*** of opinions, arguments, and counter-arguments, I'll jump in on this. (FTR, the jury was right by law, and Zimmerman is a dumbass).

pretty sure this thread comes down to 99% of the people posting trying to convince 1% of the people (person) of the underlined.

What really makes me sad, is all the race baiting and politics being played.

[sd'sker]

Even though this thread is a clusterf*** of opinions, arguments, and counter-arguments, I'll jump in on this. (FTR, the jury was right by law, and Zimmerman is a dumbass).

pretty sure this thread comes down to 99% of the people posting trying to convince 1% of the people (person) of the underlined.

What really makes me sad, is all the race baiting and politics being played.

it was a sensational story and we have a sensationalist media. but, the politics being played is pretty disappointing.

[BigRedBuster]

Was GZ wearing anything that would indicate he is "Neighborhood watch"? If the purpose of the neighborhood watch is to deter someone from committing a crime in the neighborhood, then wouldn't a big magnetic sign on his truck sitting on the street be the thing to have? What about some type of shirt or jacket with big letters saying "NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH".

 

THEN, if Trayvon was actually just walking home from the 7/11 he would view GZ as someone friendly who would help HIM not be mugged.

 

THEN, if Trayvon was trying to rob a house, he would see that and say...."I gotta get the f**ck out of here."

 

Seems logical to me.

[husker_99]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

What?

read the transcript.

[husker_99]

you always bring up that Zimmerman had a gun. Zimmerman having a gun doesn't mean that's the sole focus to where that's what you have made it out to be.

i think it is the combo of having a gun *and* lurking in a neighborhood that would make me wary of a person.

 

and when someone is shot to death, the fact that someone had a gun is *kind of* important, but i am unsure how i have made that the sole focus. i think the real sole focus here is how you are compelled to so vehemently defend zimmerman. the fact remains, he was safe with a gun in his vehicle. he called the police and that should have been the end of it. for whatever reason, zimmerman exercised poor judgment and something bad happened. no one should be surprised something bad happened. zimmerman wa suspicious of martin, so why approach him? whatever happened that night, whether zimmerman did commit murder or was justified in his actions, it should have never gotten there. that is the point.

So if Zimmerman had a bat, knife, hammer, etc. or some other weapon in his truck that he could've killed Martin with, would you be saying he shouldn't have those things? Clearly you are against people owning guns and the 2nd amendment.

[ShawnWatson]

The point that you are missing or just ignoring is that same area had break ins. Martin went the same route that a burglar would go. then he went to the sidewalk. Then he noticed Zimmerman's truck and walked up to it and then started running. Who in the f#*k does that? Only someone who is running from something that he shouldn't be doing or in possession of. Sorry but if your area has been known to have break ins the last thing you should be doing is acting like you fixing to rob a house. You are putting too much emphasis on the gun.

What?

read the transcript.

 

Make sense.

[Enhance]

And if Martin had taken a more reasonable amount of time to walk slightly over half a mile instead of whatever else he was doing he would have been inside before Zimmerman ever came by.

Had Zimmerman made the correct initial decision to inform the authorities as opposed to doing anything himself, this would not be under discussion. Martin's checkered history and inability to get home quickly are far less relevant to the story than what Zimmerman did. I'm not saying I think Martin is completely innocent, but in the same breath, we know nothing from Martin because he is dead. We have one account, and contradicting eye-witness accounts. What we do know is that Zimmerman saw a suspicious boy and did something he shouldn't, and regardless of everything that happened after or before that decision to follow, that boy ended up dead.

It seems like a lot of people know what Zimmerman should or shouldn't have done. He should have done this or shouldn't have done that and a boy ended up dead. But what he should or shouldn't have done is totally subjective. It seems to me that most who put forth this argument leave the unspoken implication that Zimmerman still attacked Martin when he ran across him. Because if Zimmerman is to be believed - and I know there is reason to doubt even though that is totally inconsistent with his previous neighborhood watch actions - he would never have had a confrontation with Martin if it was up to him. Thus, if Martin was the attacker, the biggest blame for Martins death was that Martin did something he shouldn't (attack Zimmerman).

I think that's an incorrect conclusion, Mav. I think first, what Zimmerman should have done is totally objective - he was told by a law enforcement official to not follow Martin. That's not a request, that's an order, and the correct one. Zimmerman ignored this - fact.

 

The rest of what you're saying is reasonable but can't be proven. While we can look at Zimmerman's past history, unsuspecting people can still be guilty of atrocities (not saying that's the case here). We also have no concrete way to prove whether Martin initiated the fight, or Zimmerman did. All I'm saying is that Zimmerman created the circumstances that led to the death by following Martin. If Zimmerman had done what he was told, I think the situation would be very different right now.

 

The other thing we can't forget is that victors write the history books. While we can both agree there's inconsistencies in the stories, I just caution people on both sides of the line to think clearly about the situation and just go by what we can actually prove.

[The Dude]

I think that's an incorrect conclusion, Mav. I think first, what Zimmerman should have done is totally objective - he was told by a law enforcement official to not follow Martin. That's not a request, that's an order, and the correct one. Zimmerman ignored this - fact.

Not exactly. He was told by a 911 dispatcher he didn't have to follow him. He wasn't ordered to do anything. Not that a phone operator has the authority to order anyone to do anything, anyway.

[Saunders]

I think that's an incorrect conclusion, Mav. I think first, what Zimmerman should have done is totally objective - he was told by a law enforcement official to not follow Martin. That's not a request, that's an order, and the correct one. Zimmerman ignored this - fact.

This is another media driven fallacy.

[LouisianaHusker]

What gets me is that people are complaining how the Stand Your Ground is a failure/wrong because Trayvon died because of a "white hispanic."

 

Yet there has been literally no mention of the true Stand Your Ground atrocity of what happened to Marissa Alexander. A woman who had a protective order against her husband, who IIRC admitted to the abuse, but yet was found guilty of firing a warning shot to 20 years. This is after she attempted to flee the area but was unable to due to a jammed garage door..

 

The Special Prosecutor, Angela Corey, was the same that did the GZ/TM case.

[sd'sker]

you always bring up that Zimmerman had a gun. Zimmerman having a gun doesn't mean that's the sole focus to where that's what you have made it out to be.

i think it is the combo of having a gun *and* lurking in a neighborhood that would make me wary of a person.

 

and when someone is shot to death, the fact that someone had a gun is *kind of* important, but i am unsure how i have made that the sole focus. i think the real sole focus here is how you are compelled to so vehemently defend zimmerman. the fact remains, he was safe with a gun in his vehicle. he called the police and that should have been the end of it. for whatever reason, zimmerman exercised poor judgment and something bad happened. no one should be surprised something bad happened. zimmerman wa suspicious of martin, so why approach him? whatever happened that night, whether zimmerman did commit murder or was justified in his actions, it should have never gotten there. that is the point.

So if Zimmerman had a bat, knife, hammer, etc. or some other weapon in his truck that he could've killed Martin with, would you be saying he shouldn't have those things? Clearly you are against people owning guns and the 2nd amendment.

is this a joke?

[It'sNotAFakeID]

you always bring up that Zimmerman had a gun. Zimmerman having a gun doesn't mean that's the sole focus to where that's what you have made it out to be.

i think it is the combo of having a gun *and* lurking in a neighborhood that would make me wary of a person.

 

and when someone is shot to death, the fact that someone had a gun is *kind of* important, but i am unsure how i have made that the sole focus. i think the real sole focus here is how you are compelled to so vehemently defend zimmerman. the fact remains, he was safe with a gun in his vehicle. he called the police and that should have been the end of it. for whatever reason, zimmerman exercised poor judgment and something bad happened. no one should be surprised something bad happened. zimmerman wa suspicious of martin, so why approach him? whatever happened that night, whether zimmerman did commit murder or was justified in his actions, it should have never gotten there. that is the point.

So if Zimmerman had a bat, knife, hammer, etc. or some other weapon in his truck that he could've killed Martin with, would you be saying he shouldn't have those things? Clearly you are against people owning guns and the 2nd amendment.

is this a joke?

 

YOU CAN'T TERRRRRK MERRR GURRNSSS

[husker_99]

you always bring up that Zimmerman had a gun. Zimmerman having a gun doesn't mean that's the sole focus to where that's what you have made it out to be.

i think it is the combo of having a gun *and* lurking in a neighborhood that would make me wary of a person.

 

and when someone is shot to death, the fact that someone had a gun is *kind of* important, but i am unsure how i have made that the sole focus. i think the real sole focus here is how you are compelled to so vehemently defend zimmerman. the fact remains, he was safe with a gun in his vehicle. he called the police and that should have been the end of it. for whatever reason, zimmerman exercised poor judgment and something bad happened. no one should be surprised something bad happened. zimmerman wa suspicious of martin, so why approach him? whatever happened that night, whether zimmerman did commit murder or was justified in his actions, it should have never gotten there. that is the point.

So if Zimmerman had a bat, knife, hammer, etc. or some other weapon in his truck that he could've killed Martin with, would you be saying he shouldn't have those things? Clearly you are against people owning guns and the 2nd amendment.

is this a joke?

the post of someone who has been called out? just answer the question. If Zimmerman had some other weapon like a bat, knife, etc would you be saying he shouldn't have had those since to you Zimmerman shouldn't have had a gun?

[sd'sker]

the post of someone who has been called out? just answer the question. If Zimmerman had some other weapon like a bat, knife, etc would you be saying he shouldn't have had those since to you Zimmerman shouldn't have had a gun?

no.