carlfense Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Depends on what you imagine eternity to be, I guess... I imagine it to be nothing. Not in a bad way. It's just over. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 My wife and I both believe that there's no such thing as a soul for any animals, humans included. Our kids are both under 3 and luckily the topic hasn't really presented itself yet, but our approach is that when things die, they're gone forever and we'll never experience those consciousnesses that we knew as "grandpa" or "cousin Joey" or "Rover" ever again except in our memories. Life is fleeting, and we have to make the most of the time we have. Given how exceedingly rare complex life is likely to be within our universe, we must treat our opportunity to live as the unique treasure that it is because when it's gone, it's gone. Well that's a pretty depressing way of looking at things. So when you die, things just go dark?... Just wondering. In response to the original question, I have no idea. We will all find out someday. why is that depressing? it makes this waking life so much more splendid and valuable. also, you lead a good life and then when you pass you get to enjoy the most peaceful, dreamless sleep. nothing to regret or stress about, just as before you were born. i find this way of thinking extremely exciting and liberating. make the most of this life, enjoy it, find what happiness is to you, create your own value system and live by it, and when you pass, you pass. finality is not scary, eternity is. Depends on what you imagine eternity to be, I guess... i don't think we are capable of imagining eternity, but to me at least it seems like i'd rather just be done than experience anything for an eternity. Link to comment
HuskerShark Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 My wife and I both believe that there's no such thing as a soul for any animals, humans included. Our kids are both under 3 and luckily the topic hasn't really presented itself yet, but our approach is that when things die, they're gone forever and we'll never experience those consciousnesses that we knew as "grandpa" or "cousin Joey" or "Rover" ever again except in our memories. Life is fleeting, and we have to make the most of the time we have. Given how exceedingly rare complex life is likely to be within our universe, we must treat our opportunity to live as the unique treasure that it is because when it's gone, it's gone. Well that's a pretty depressing way of looking at things. So when you die, things just go dark?... Just wondering. In response to the original question, I have no idea. We will all find out someday. why is that depressing? it makes this waking life so much more splendid and valuable. also, you lead a good life and then when you pass you get to enjoy the most peaceful, dreamless sleep. nothing to regret or stress about, just as before you were born. i find this way of thinking extremely exciting and liberating. make the most of this life, enjoy it, find what happiness is to you, create your own value system and live by it, and when you pass, you pass. finality is not scary, eternity is. Depends on what you imagine eternity to be, I guess... i don't think we are capable of imagining eternity, but to me at least it seems like i'd rather just be done than experience anything for an eternity. ha, alright... Link to comment
Comish Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 To the original topic...... I believe WE have souls, but then I also believe in an afterlife. I can’t speak to whether or not dogs have souls, because I believe we have dominion over all animals and they are not at our level. But that doesn’t mean we are not obligated to care and nourish those in our care. I have had 9 dogs in my life (currently housing 3) and I believe there is a strong “connection” between humans and animals, but can’t really assert that it rises to a level of soul, but then…….who knows? I do know that a dog will care for you unconditionally, be a faithful companion and exhibit far better behavior than a number of our race do, especially in trying circumstances. And I believe the world is a better place because of them. Whether animals may or may not have a place in eternity is beyond my reasoning to conjecture. Jmho….. Link to comment
robsker Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I don't find anything particularly depressing about what bhamHusker said either. I think people trying to live for the future are wasting their time living in the here and now. They are constantly trying to do things to make their future better that they often forget to sit back and make the most out of what is in front of you NOW. There is a fitting song by Billy Joel that I go to whenever I feel rushed: Where's the fire, what's the hurry about? You'd better cool it off before you burn it out. You've got so much to do and Only so many hours in a day. But you know that when the truth is told... That you can get what you want or you can just get old You're gonna kick off before you even Get halfway through... ...Slow down, you're doing fine You can't be everything you want to be Before your time... ...Too bad but it's the life you lead You're so ahead of yourself that you forgot what you need... As for the question asked by the OP, I really don't think a soul exists in any organism. "Soul" is a construct, it is unmeasureable and is an idea thought up of by humanity. Not something we're all born innately with, like a brain or a heart. I'd say do whatever your spirituality and your feelings tell you to do. I don't find anything particularly depressing about what bhamHusker said either. I think people trying to live for the future are wasting their time living in the here and now. They are constantly trying to do things to make their future better that they often forget to sit back and make the most out of what is in front of you NOW. There is a fitting song by Billy Joel that I go to whenever I feel rushed: Where's the fire, what's the hurry about? You'd better cool it off before you burn it out. You've got so much to do and Only so many hours in a day. But you know that when the truth is told... That you can get what you want or you can just get old You're gonna kick off before you even Get halfway through... ...Slow down, you're doing fine You can't be everything you want to be Before your time... ...Too bad but it's the life you lead You're so ahead of yourself that you forgot what you need... As for the question asked by the OP, I really don't think a soul exists in any organism. "Soul" is a construct, it is unmeasureable and is an idea thought up of by humanity. Not something we're all born innately with, like a brain or a heart. I'd say do whatever your spirituality and your feelings tell you to do. I found your statement below interesting... "Soul" is a construct, it is unmeasureable OK. I agree. That said, electrons are a construct that are as well unmeasurable (we can measure the effect of electrons, but not electrons). Sub-atomic particles are constructs too. As are magnetic fields, gravitational fields, and the nuclear strong force. Dark matter is as well. As are curvilinear dimensions in space. Further, quantum mechanical constructs abound. All are constructs to explain observed effects. None are directly observable or measurable (though effects resulting from these constructs are). So... are you saying that constructs describing that which cannot be directly observed by definition do not exist? Link to comment
robsker Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I don't find anything particularly depressing about what bhamHusker said either. I think people trying to live for the future are wasting their time living in the here and now. They are constantly trying to do things to make their future better that they often forget to sit back and make the most out of what is in front of you NOW. There is a fitting song by Billy Joel that I go to whenever I feel rushed: Where's the fire, what's the hurry about? You'd better cool it off before you burn it out. You've got so much to do and Only so many hours in a day. But you know that when the truth is told... That you can get what you want or you can just get old You're gonna kick off before you even Get halfway through... ...Slow down, you're doing fine You can't be everything you want to be Before your time... ...Too bad but it's the life you lead You're so ahead of yourself that you forgot what you need... As for the question asked by the OP, I really don't think a soul exists in any organism. "Soul" is a construct, it is unmeasureable and is an idea thought up of by humanity. Not something we're all born innately with, like a brain or a heart. I'd say do whatever your spirituality and your feelings tell you to do. I don't find anything particularly depressing about what bhamHusker said either. I think people trying to live for the future are wasting their time living in the here and now. They are constantly trying to do things to make their future better that they often forget to sit back and make the most out of what is in front of you NOW. There is a fitting song by Billy Joel that I go to whenever I feel rushed: Where's the fire, what's the hurry about? You'd better cool it off before you burn it out. You've got so much to do and Only so many hours in a day. But you know that when the truth is told... That you can get what you want or you can just get old You're gonna kick off before you even Get halfway through... ...Slow down, you're doing fine You can't be everything you want to be Before your time... ...Too bad but it's the life you lead You're so ahead of yourself that you forgot what you need... As for the question asked by the OP, I really don't think a soul exists in any organism. "Soul" is a construct, it is unmeasureable and is an idea thought up of by humanity. Not something we're all born innately with, like a brain or a heart. I'd say do whatever your spirituality and your feelings tell you to do. Bye Bye Birdie... please do not take any of this as an affront. I mean no disrespect. You say... I'd say do whatever your spirituality and your feelings tell you to do. ******* If it was your child, someone you loved, someone whose welfare you really care about --- if such a person held a perspective that you were fairly convinced was wrong and related to an important issue... would you give that loved one the advive you stated earlier... would you say... do whatever your spirituality and your feelings tell you to do. ***************** maybe you would, I don't know. If so, why would you give that advice? Thanks for your consideration here. Link to comment
robsker Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Bye Bye Big 12: My bad... that is Bye Bye Big 12 --- where I got the birdie i don't know. Sorry.. Link to comment
bhamHusker Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I can't speak for BBB12, but I read that last line of his post as advice to the OP on how matthew_m_g could handle the situation (i.e. matthew_m_g, do what your spirituality tells you and what you feel is right), not necessarily as advice to let his kid or other loved ones believe whatever they wanted to believe. Link to comment
wildman Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Ugh...so this weekend, I just had to explain death to a four year old because the family dog, 'Husker', passed on. The wife and daughter are taking this death especially hard, and I thought about trying to arrange a discussion with the local Catholic priest (as my wife is Catholic) to see if it would help her out with her grief. But then I read (and remembered) that the Catholic church does not believe that animals have souls, so having a Catholic Priest come over to discuss the grief over losing an animal that the Church doesn't consider to have a soul is probably not the best thing. So I ask you, dear HuskerBoard readers, do you believe that animals have souls? And if you've had to explain death to a little one, how did you approach the topic? Sorry to hear about the loss of Husker. When I was in highschool my family had a boxer, one of the best pets i've ever had. I still remember how I felt coming home from Iraq nearly 10 years ago and hearing parents had to put him down. To this day my dad won't get another dog because he still misses buffer and knows he can't replace him. My wife and I both believe that there's no such thing as a soul for any animals, humans included. Our kids are both under 3 and luckily the topic hasn't really presented itself yet, but our approach is that when things die, they're gone forever and we'll never experience those consciousnesses that we knew as "grandpa" or "cousin Joey" or "Rover" ever again except in our memories. Life is fleeting, and we have to make the most of the time we have. Given how exceedingly rare complex life is likely to be within our universe, we must treat our opportunity to live as the unique treasure that it is because when it's gone, it's gone. Well that's a pretty depressing way of looking at things. So when you die, things just go dark?... Just wondering. In response to the original question, I have no idea. We will all find out someday. why is that depressing? it makes this waking life so much more splendid and valuable. also, you lead a good life and then when you pass you get to enjoy the most peaceful, dreamless sleep. nothing to regret or stress about, just as before you were born. i find this way of thinking extremely exciting and liberating. make the most of this life, enjoy it, find what happiness is to you, create your own value system and live by it, and when you pass, you pass. finality is not scary, eternity is. Depends on what you imagine eternity to be, I guess... If my after life would be wearing burnt orange and having to say i'm a texas fan. Then I'd say eternity would be worse then he!! lol. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 If my after life would be wearing burnt orange and having to say i'm a texas fan. Then I'd say eternity would be worse then he!! lol. That eternity would be hell, not worse than but actual hell. Fire and redhot pokers would be relief. Link to comment
tschu Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 As someone with a Biology degree I have to chime in to say NO. Link to comment
Lil' Red Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I find it very doubtful that souls exist but I believe that if humans posses a soul then animals do as well. To me there isn't anything that definitively sets humans apart from animals that it would stand to reason that humans have souls while animals do not. As far as explaining it to a young one it is entirely your decision on how to approach that. Personally, I would avoid delving into much detail on the subject and focus on the positive memories that Husker contributed. Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 As someone with a Biology degree I have to chime in to say NO. What does that have to do with anything? Link to comment
Enhance Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 As someone with a Biology degree I have to chime in to say NO. What does that have to do with anything? Biology is the study of life and living organisms. Biology also says that the cell is the basic unit of life. I think it would stand to reason, then, that a biologist would see a soul as something that can't exist. It can't be worked with, applied to anything or studied with. It is an ethereal object that is impossible to view. Conversely, biologists can see exactly how life is made and what happens to create that life, relying on the scientific method to prove these things. A soul conflicts with this, in a way, because it takes life outside of the now and into the ethereal. Which, obviously, biologists can't work with. tschu can correct me if that's a little off, but I think that's probably what he means. Link to comment
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