Martinez QB Camp Update

[Moiraine]

Swifty and Peterson dropped a few in their day. Held to the same standards we have built up now (in reaction to some drop heavy performances at times, notably in that Texas game, I guess, and Niles Paul's varying absurd errors), they would be ridiculed similarly.

Lacking statistics for drops per throw, I have to say I completely disagree with you. I don't think our standards are any higher now than they were. As a team we seem to be dropping way more catchable throws than before. Without statistics I suppose this is just a matter of opinion, though. The dropsies are not an isolated incident like the Texas game. Kinnie basically inherited Niles Paul's problem. Overall we're not horrible the past few years if you exclude Kinnie & Paul. Maybe now that Kinnie is gone it will go better, but I thought the same thing would happen when Paul was gone.

[ladyhawke]

We heard that we will be surprised by his progress last year too. I Don't take much from these. I sure hope i'm surprised, but who knows

I was surprised by his progress this past year He stepped up as a leader, he was better at recognizing the defensive plays and making adjustments. Was he perfect, no but he had made progress.

[tschu]

We heard that we will be surprised by his progress last year too. I Don't take much from these. I sure hope i'm surprised, but who knows

And Taylor was a noticeably better quarterback last year than the year prior.

Was he? Really? He was a different quarterback but not necessarily a hugely better one... He made strides consistent with your average freshman-to-sophomore transition, but nothing more. (just to clarify for all the idiots that like to jump on negativity, i'm a t-magic fan too)

[zoogs]

Swifty and Peterson dropped a few in their day. Held to the same standards we have built up now (in reaction to some drop heavy performances at times, notably in that Texas game, I guess, and Niles Paul's varying absurd errors), they would be ridiculed similarly.

Lacking statistics for drops per throw, I have to say I completely disagree with you. I don't think our standards are any higher now than they were. As a team we seem to be dropping way more catchable throws than before. Without statistics I suppose this is just a matter of opinion, though. The dropsies are not an isolated incident like the Texas game. Kinnie basically inherited Niles Paul's problem. Overall we're not horrible the past few years if you exclude Kinnie & Paul. Maybe now that Kinnie is gone it will go better, but I thought the same thing would happen when Paul was gone.

 

Yeah, it's hard to say because it's subjective in the end. I remember at least one clear drop from Swift - along with the surprise that came with it - and I believe "The Drive" vs A&M saw a couple from Peterson. I don't think we disagree as much as you think, though.

 

Paul/Kinnie had issues (Kinnie at least at the start of the year). That I think, is clear, and the flak they caught, they deserved. I am saying as a result of their issues, we're getting very trigger-happy with the "Man! this WR needs to get hands" line as applied towards our other receivers. I have a screenshot I posted here at one point of a play for which Bell was panned, where he had to lay out just to be able to make contact with an errant ball.

 

Swift/Peterson benefited from unusual rapport with their QB, and enough targets that they could easily wipe the memory of the occasional drop here and there, which anybody has, with more completions. But the way some people talk, those guys had the best hands ever while our current QB is still getting hosed by a slacking group of WRs. I don't believe this is the case. Taylor's inconsistent throwing is at least as much at fault, so it's extra good that he is ironing out that part of his game.

[bshirt]

Swifty and Peterson dropped a few in their day. Held to the same standards we have built up now (in reaction to some drop heavy performances at times, notably in that Texas game, I guess, and Niles Paul's varying absurd errors), they would be ridiculed similarly.

Lacking statistics for drops per throw, I have to say I completely disagree with you. I don't think our standards are any higher now than they were. As a team we seem to be dropping way more catchable throws than before. Without statistics I suppose this is just a matter of opinion, though. The dropsies are not an isolated incident like the Texas game. Kinnie basically inherited Niles Paul's problem. Overall we're not horrible the past few years if you exclude Kinnie & Paul. Maybe now that Kinnie is gone it will go better, but I thought the same thing would happen when Paul was gone.

 

Yeah, it's hard to say because it's subjective in the end. I remember at least one clear drop from Swift - along with the surprise that came with it - and I believe "The Drive" vs A&M saw a couple from Peterson. I don't think we disagree as much as you think, though.

 

Paul/Kinnie had issues (Kinnie at least at the start of the year). That I think, is clear, and the flak they caught, they deserved. I am saying as a result of their issues, we're getting very trigger-happy with the "Man! this WR needs to get hands" line as applied towards our other receivers. I have a screenshot I posted here at one point of a play for which Bell was panned, where he had to lay out just to be able to make contact with an errant ball.

 

Swift/Peterson benefited from unusual rapport with their QB, and enough targets that they could easily wipe the memory of the occasional drop here and there, which anybody has, with more completions. But the way some people talk, those guys had the best hands ever while our current QB is still getting hosed by a slacking group of WRs. I don't believe this is the case. Taylor's inconsistent throwing is at least as much at fault, so it's extra good that he is ironing out that part of his game.

 

I honestly don't see anything subjective whatsoever about this. It's too bad there's no official statistics for this but Stevie Wonder couldn't miss NP & BK dropping boatloads of passes the last three years. To use the excuse that everyone drops an occasional pass so it's perfectly just Hunky Dory to drop them everywhere is plain wrong.

 

It became so bad even ESPN last year wrote a mid-season article about our stone-handed wrs....

 

http://sports.espn.g...=ncf&id=7241256

 

 

Nebraska receivers struggling with dropped balls

 

 

Four drops vs NW, three more vs Penn State....

 

Third-down drops by Brandon Kinnie ended two drives in last week's 17-14 win at Penn State, and a ball through Kenny Bell's hands led to a three-and-out on another series.

 

"A drop can be the same as a fumble or interception," Bell said. "It's absolutely demoralizing. It's something we've talked about all year. It's something we can't allow to happen."

 

No one has struggled more than Kinnie, who led the Huskers with 44 catches for 494 yards and five touchdowns as a junior last season.

 

He started the season with two ugly drops against Chattanooga. He has 19 catches for 192 yards and hasn't scored.

 

Kinnie isn't alone in his struggles as the Huskers (8-2, 4-2 Big Ten) prepare for Michigan (8-2, 4-2). Bell had two drops and Jamal Turner one on long passes in the win at Minnesota last month.

 

Bell had a team-high four catches for 42 yards against Penn State. But he failed to come up with a catchable low ball across the middle early in the game and immediately looked at his hands as if they betrayed him. He also ran the wrong route in the third quarter and Martinez's pass sailed behind him.

 

Kinnie said no one blames the receivers' problems on Martinez, whose unorthodox throwing motion has been scrutinized all season.

 

"He throws a ball we need to catch," Kinnie said. "It is what it is. We're wide receivers, and we've got to catch the ball no matter how hard it's thrown, when it shouldn't be, how high, no matter what. He's the quarterback. He's putting it there for us to catch, and we have to catch the ball.

 

 

Even the recruitniks know how bad this problem is....

 

http://www.rantsport...st-look-part-4/

 

 

Jordan Westerkamp (WR) - Like Seisay, I have written about Jordan before and am very excited that he is finally going to make it to Lincoln. With a plethora of depth currently, Westerkamp will have a challenge ahead of him if he expects to play. One problem that plagued the Huskers this season was dropped passes, something that Jordan did not struggle with, which should help him. Nebraska was able to hang on after Notre Dame tried to pry him away. If he can crack the starting receivers this season, the Huskers are going to be better off. His sure hands are something they sorely missed this season.

 

 

Heck, 2010's Texas game was a true high-lite with 8 dropped passes in that game alone. Oh well, at least our wrs don't buy the endless BS excuses posted here on HB. There's hope.

 

GBR!!

[zoogs]

I'm not talking about Niles and Brandon - or rather, I did, and I said they deserved the flak they got.

 

And I never said it was hunky dory. I said dropped passes happen on occasion. So do poorly placed throws. In our case, the latter happened more than merely "on occasion." That accountability goes both ways. Yes, Niles and Brandon both had shockingly rough senior campaigns where they couldn't get their head in the game. As for the rest, every receiver has had a few he'd like back here and there - including Swift and Peterson - and Taylor has more than his share of throws he should like to have back.

 

You can't excuse one half of the passing connection completely, and maybe I'm missing the part where you aren't doing that. It's great that the receivers are focusing on hands. That helps Taylor. It's also great that Taylor is working on getting a consistent throw out there. That helps his receivers.

 

But - Niles' and BK's extraordinarily mind-numbing senior campaigns aside - the quarterback position is the one that, compared to the average, has been more lacking. We all know this and acknowledge it regularly, Taylor's a running QB and he's no Zac Taylor out there. Our passing game is going to have bumps and inconsistencies, as a result. It's why we key everything off of the run so much, and go for the big play on deep playaction vs stacked boxes.

 

We're not some high-accuracy, dink-and-dunk, precision timing type passing attack. Or at least we haven't been yet. We've been a run first, run second team team with a QB who throws a little goofy. It would be a superlative effort to not have above average drops, given that.

[Hunter94]

I'm not talking about Niles and Brandon - or rather, I did, and I said they deserved the flak they got.

 

And I never said it was hunky dory. I said dropped passes happen on occasion. So do poorly placed throws. In our case, the latter happened more than merely "on occasion." That accountability goes both ways. Yes, Niles and Brandon both had shockingly rough senior campaigns where they couldn't get their head in the game. As for the rest, every receiver has had a few he'd like back here and there - including Swift and Peterson - and Taylor has more than his share of throws he should like to have back.

 

You can't excuse one half of the passing connection completely, and maybe I'm missing the part where you aren't doing that. Point is, it's great that the receivers are focusing on hands. That helps Taylor. It's also great that Taylor is working on getting a consistent throw out there. That helps his receivers.

 

 

ok, so far, as i understand it, we have a qb that can't throw and receivers who can't catch.......plus offensive and defensive lines that underperform.......winning a CC is going to be difficult.

[bshirt]

I'm not talking about Niles and Brandon - or rather, I did, and I said they deserved the flak they got.

 

And I never said it was hunky dory. I said dropped passes happen on occasion. So do poorly placed throws. In our case, the latter happened more than merely "on occasion." That accountability goes both ways. Yes, Niles and Brandon both had shockingly rough senior campaigns where they couldn't get their head in the game. As for the rest, every receiver has had a few he'd like back here and there - including Swift and Peterson - and Taylor has more than his share of throws he should like to have back.

 

You can't excuse one half of the passing connection completely, and maybe I'm missing the part where you aren't doing that. It's great that the receivers are focusing on hands. That helps Taylor. It's also great that Taylor is working on getting a consistent throw out there. That helps his receivers.

 

But - Niles' and BK's extraordinarily mind-numbing senior campaigns aside - the quarterback position is the one that, compared to the average, has been more lacking. We all know this and acknowledge it regularly, Taylor's a running QB and he's no Zac Taylor out there. Our passing game is going to have bumps and inconsistencies, as a result. It's why we key everything off of the run so much, and go for the big play on deep playaction vs stacked boxes.

 

We're not some high-accuracy, dink-and-dunk, precision timing type passing attack. Or at least we haven't been yet. We've been a run first, run second team team with a QB who throws a little goofy. It would be a superlative effort to not have above average drops, given that.

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but......for the life of me I don't remember TO's wrs dropping passes everywhere (at all). Especially for years on end. What could be a more "run first" offense than his? So you're saying his wrs must have given a "superlative effort" for a couple of decades??

 

Also, as noted just a few posts before, the problem hasn't been just NP & BK (at all). But you'll just continue to ignore that.

 

Oh well, we'll just leave this with Tmart and the wrs (running the right routes wouldn't hurt either) need improvement, ok? They both need it.

 

GBR!!

[tschu]

Revisionist history ITT

[Landlord]

Yeah, it's hard to say because it's subjective in the end. I remember at least one clear drop from Swift - along with the surprise that came with it - and I believe "The Drive" vs A&M saw a couple from Peterson. I don't think we disagree as much as you think, though.

 

 

 

Nate always had one, singular big drop a year his first three years here - don't remember any his senior season. Each of them were all the same idea too; wide open, nobody near him and a perfectly thrown ball right in the numbers that he couldn't bring in. Aberrational behavior. Todd had two drops in the final drive vs. A&M in '06, one on third down and 3 which he redeemed himself over with a 26 yard gainer the next play on 4th down, and another on 2nd down later in the drive, but also had a big first down catch before it. Finished the game with 7 catches to lead all receivers.

[Ringer02]

Even Irving Fryar had rare slip-ups, No receiver's going to be perfect but 18 dropped passes in a season is inexcusable, doesn't matter what kind of an offense you're running. At this point Kenny Bell and Quincy Enunwa seem to be the only consistent receivers on our roster.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoNs0mdKAO8

['SkersRule]

Swifty and Peterson dropped a few in their day. Held to the same standards we have built up now (in reaction to some drop heavy performances at times, notably in that Texas game, I guess, and Niles Paul's varying absurd errors), they would be ridiculed similarly.

Lacking statistics for drops per throw, I have to say I completely disagree with you. I don't think our standards are any higher now than they were. As a team we seem to be dropping way more catchable throws than before. Without statistics I suppose this is just a matter of opinion, though. The dropsies are not an isolated incident like the Texas game. Kinnie basically inherited Niles Paul's problem. Overall we're not horrible the past few years if you exclude Kinnie & Paul. Maybe now that Kinnie is gone it will go better, but I thought the same thing would happen when Paul was gone.

 

Yeah, it's hard to say because it's subjective in the end. I remember at least one clear drop from Swift - along with the surprise that came with it - and I believe "The Drive" vs A&M saw a couple from Peterson. I don't think we disagree as much as you think, though.

 

Paul/Kinnie had issues (Kinnie at least at the start of the year). That I think, is clear, and the flak they caught, they deserved. I am saying as a result of their issues, we're getting very trigger-happy with the "Man! this WR needs to get hands" line as applied towards our other receivers. I have a screenshot I posted here at one point of a play for which Bell was panned, where he had to lay out just to be able to make contact with an errant ball.

 

Swift/Peterson benefited from unusual rapport with their QB, and enough targets that they could easily wipe the memory of the occasional drop here and there, which anybody has, with more completions. But the way some people talk, those guys had the best hands ever while our current QB is still getting hosed by a slacking group of WRs. I don't believe this is the case. Taylor's inconsistent throwing is at least as much at fault, so it's extra good that he is ironing out that part of his game.

 

A WR occassionally dropping a pass is going to happen. Other times the ball will be ten feet over his head, hit three yards short, or be two yards behind him--all these things are a part of the game and the vast majority of fans out there realize that. However, our WRs have a frustrating habit of letting the ball hit their respective hands and drop to the ground. Say whatever you want about Taylor's still ugly throwing motion, but the simple fact is that he more often than not, puts the ball exactly where it needs to be. Our WRs just can't seem to focus and make the requisite catch. And when you're only throwing the ball 32% of the time it becomes even more paramount that the ball is caught.

[lo country]

In 2010 we were basically "big or bust". Every drop really, really hurt us. In 2011 we actually had the ability to grind out drives and eat the clock. Because Martinez was hobbled (literally and figuratively by the staff) it limited our big play potential. team put 8-9 guys in the box and dared us to beat them over the top. Multiple drops made D's realize that the risk of stacking was well worth the reward as we had a QB with throwing issues, WR who dropped balls like they were hot and an OC trying to figure out what the heck to even call.

 

I really hope that an improved Martinez will result in "more catchable balls". I also hope that Beck watches film from 2010 and 2011 and crap cans about 60-70% of what he has been calling. Open up the short passing game ala Lucky. Use more bubble screens and misdirection, quick passes with 3 step or no drop. For gosh sake roll Martinez out of the pocket. Use more draws and traps. Pound the rock again and again and again. NU found a way in the 90's to exploit and embarrass teams dumb enough to stuff the box.

 

Martinez, IMO, did a great job as a game manager. Unfortunately his skill set is that of a play maker, not a manager. I think the staff realized that too late last year coupled with no real back up QB. Looking at the pros, it is like Vick vs Manning (either one). Martinez can kill you with his speed and feet, not with his arm. At least not regularly enough to make D's fear him. Beck needs to call plays to his strengths and not try to "hide" the new Martinez until conference play. If the kid has become a gun slinger, I would let him open fire in the first game. Give DC's something to worry about from day one. We are not proficient enough to "hide the real O" until conference play.

[Hunter94]

In 2010 we were basically "big or bust". Every drop really, really hurt us. In 2011 we actually had the ability to grind out drives and eat the clock. Because Martinez was hobbled (literally and figuratively by the staff) it limited our big play potential. team put 8-9 guys in the box and dared us to beat them over the top. Multiple drops made D's realize that the risk of stacking was well worth the reward as we had a QB with throwing issues, WR who dropped balls like they were hot and an OC trying to figure out what the heck to even call.

 

I really hope that an improved Martinez will result in "more catchable balls". I also hope that Beck watches film from 2010 and 2011 and crap cans about 60-70% of what he has been calling. Open up the short passing game ala Lucky. Use more bubble screens and misdirection, quick passes with 3 step or no drop. For gosh sake roll Martinez out of the pocket. Use more draws and traps. Pound the rock again and again and again. NU found a way in the 90's to exploit and embarrass teams dumb enough to stuff the box.

 

Martinez, IMO, did a great job as a game manager. Unfortunately his skill set is that of a play maker, not a manager. I think the staff realized that too late last year coupled with no real back up QB. Looking at the pros, it is like Vick vs Manning (either one). Martinez can kill you with his speed and feet, not with his arm. At least not regularly enough to make D's fear him. Beck needs to call plays to his strengths and not try to "hide" the new Martinez until conference play. If the kid has become a gun slinger, I would let him open fire in the first game. Give DC's something to worry about from day one. We are not proficient enough to "hide the real O" until conference play.

 

 

when the coach decides that we have no viable backup at QB, he will limit his running the ball and high risk plays......trouble is, i am not sure we are still not in the same boat this season...

[lo country]

In 2010 we were basically "big or bust". Every drop really, really hurt us. In 2011 we actually had the ability to grind out drives and eat the clock. Because Martinez was hobbled (literally and figuratively by the staff) it limited our big play potential. team put 8-9 guys in the box and dared us to beat them over the top. Multiple drops made D's realize that the risk of stacking was well worth the reward as we had a QB with throwing issues, WR who dropped balls like they were hot and an OC trying to figure out what the heck to even call.

 

I really hope that an improved Martinez will result in "more catchable balls". I also hope that Beck watches film from 2010 and 2011 and crap cans about 60-70% of what he has been calling. Open up the short passing game ala Lucky. Use more bubble screens and misdirection, quick passes with 3 step or no drop. For gosh sake roll Martinez out of the pocket. Use more draws and traps. Pound the rock again and again and again. NU found a way in the 90's to exploit and embarrass teams dumb enough to stuff the box.

 

Martinez, IMO, did a great job as a game manager. Unfortunately his skill set is that of a play maker, not a manager. I think the staff realized that too late last year coupled with no real back up QB. Looking at the pros, it is like Vick vs Manning (either one). Martinez can kill you with his speed and feet, not with his arm. At least not regularly enough to make D's fear him. Beck needs to call plays to his strengths and not try to "hide" the new Martinez until conference play. If the kid has become a gun slinger, I would let him open fire in the first game. Give DC's something to worry about from day one. We are not proficient enough to "hide the real O" until conference play.

 

 

when the coach decides that we have no viable backup at QB, he will limit his running the ball and high risk plays......trouble is, i am not sure we are still not in the same boat this season...

 

I have to agree. I do not blame them for last season at all. IIRC, when pressed, Bo said he would play Rex as our #2 QB. No doubt they limited his running to keep him healthy. Imagine if he had gone down. Ugh!

 

Hopefully Carnes steps up. We definitely need the game manager ie no int's, defense reading, audible calling mixed with the sport's science faster than an arrow Martinez.