Judge: Mass. must pay for killer's sex change

[sd'sker]

And, sorry but something struck me about your statement.

 

The purpose of government is not compassion.

i do not think that is what i said. it was an appeal to your humanity. apparently, it failed. however, due process is owed to the citizens, even those incarcerated. the point is that this is not worth getting upset over. it is an odd story, it is not indicative of anything larger. it is part of our system, these things happen. it is part of all those other things about this country of which we love and depend.

 

also, the slippy slope argument (where is the line) is always weak. what about the other way? if they deny this, will they eventually deny appendectomy, cpr, or other basic medical attention? also, if their are experts equally on both sides, that is why there is a judge. that is their purpose, and i would guess if it was a close case the judge would have denied the procedure.

[Enhance]

I'm mostly ignorant about sex change operations, but as far as I'm aware, these procedures are a life choice, not a health requirement. It's not like heart bypass surgery or something equally important to the physical health of a person - it's a surgery designed to correlate with the mental health of a patient i.e. someone convinced they're a woman born in a man's body, or vice versa. Therefore, we must ask why this operation should be paid for by taxpayers?

 

Even on the human right's level, is paying for a sex change reasonable even if he has gender-identity disorder? I don't think it is. We clothe him, pay for his food, pay for his water, and give him basic human necessities so that he may spend his life in a cell. We also pay for unnecessary things like books, cable television, and other recreational equipment. I'm not saying gender-identity disorder is a farse, but does a man who who murdered his wife deserve to be treated for a mental disorder which I believe is far less detriment than something like down syndrome or severe autism? Personally, I don't believe so. I understand he's probably suffering emotionally because he feels he has the wrong body parts, but I believe the situation he put himself in during his life is undeserving of something like this.

[Comish]

And, sorry but something struck me about your statement.

 

The purpose of government is not compassion.

i do not think that is what i said. it was an appeal to your humanity. apparently, it failed. however, due process is owed to the citizens, even those incarcerated. the point is that this is not worth getting upset over. it is an odd story, it is not indicative of anything larger. it is part of our system, these things happen. it is part of all those other things about this country of which we love and depend.

 

also, the slippy slope argument (where is the line) is always weak. what about the other way? if they deny this, will they eventually deny appendectomy, cpr, or other basic medical attention? also, if their are experts equally on both sides, that is why there is a judge. that is their purpose, and i would guess if it was a close case the judge would have denied the procedure.

So I ask again...........Where is the line? Do you personally have a "stop" where you would say.............."That's it". Even in the name of compassion, we just can't go there?"

 

Speaking of names. Just curious because my knowledge of how any of this is even medically possible is extremely limited. What are the procedures called?

 

Obviously going from female to male would be an addadicktome.

 

But going from male to female (I assume it's easier) would involve subtraction rather than addition and I'm wondering if it's an affectation of Whack a mole or something more medically aesthetic?

[Apathy]

[sd'sker]

And, sorry but something struck me about your statement.

 

The purpose of government is not compassion.

i do not think that is what i said. it was an appeal to your humanity. apparently, it failed. however, due process is owed to the citizens, even those incarcerated. the point is that this is not worth getting upset over. it is an odd story, it is not indicative of anything larger. it is part of our system, these things happen. it is part of all those other things about this country of which we love and depend.

 

also, the slippy slope argument (where is the line) is always weak. what about the other way? if they deny this, will they eventually deny appendectomy, cpr, or other basic medical attention? also, if their are experts equally on both sides, that is why there is a judge. that is their purpose, and i would guess if it was a close case the judge would have denied the procedure.

So I ask again...........Where is the line? Do you personally have a "stop" where you would say.............."That's it". Even in the name of compassion, we just can't go there?"

 

Speaking of names. Just curious because my knowledge of how any of this is even medically possible is extremely limited. What are the procedures called?

 

Obviously going from female to male would be an addadicktome.

 

But going from male to female (I assume it's easier) would involve subtraction rather than addition and I'm wondering if it's an affectation of Whack a mole or something more medically aesthetic?

i want to be a dolphin, but apparently that is not medically necessary. i guess that is where the line is drawn?

 

but more seriously, trying to set parameters on these kind of things is impossible. it is a moving target. it changes with the values of society and the advancements of medical procedures and technologies. that is why you get your experts and they get theirs, the present their cases, and the judge (or jury) decides who is most credible. is there a line? yes. is that line stationary? i should hope not. that is why i am a progressive and a pragmatist. you do the best you can with the very limited information and intelligence we has humans possess.

[BigRedBuster]

You are either not understanding what Comish and I are saying or you are choosing to ignore it.

 

We fully understand that this sex change surgery is a very strange case that very well may never come up again. We aren't arguing that.

 

What we are saying is that it is a symptom of the bigger problems. When governmental decisions are made on "compassion" instead of common sense huge things go really haywire and huge programs get put in place that cost huge amounts of money.

[carlfense]

When governmental decisions are made on "compassion" instead of common sense huge things go really haywire and huge programs get put in place that cost huge amounts of money.

Are you a mental health expert? MD? DO? Etc?

 

The medical professionals opinion on medical necessity is the crucial factor. You may disagree with their analysis . . . but I'd venture a guess that they're a bit more knowledgeable about the subject than you or I.

[Comish]

Hard to believe I couldn't coax a +1 from somebody for the placement of addadicktome........ ..........(even if not terribly original, it's still a classic).......

[knapplc]

The medical professionals opinion on medical necessity is the crucial factor. You may disagree with their analysis . . . but I'd venture a guess that they're a bit more knowledgeable about the subject than you or I.

 

I do. God help me, but I cannot stop the belief that this kind of thing is more mania than medical. I know we've had this conversation on HuskerBoard before and there were some lengthy posts in support of gender identity disorder, but I still don't buy it. This is one I'm not going to trust the doctors on. If someone suddenly became convinced they were a leopard, would psychiatrists recommend genetic modification to add a tail and claws and spots? To me it's the same thing, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone with that statement.

[carlfense]

The medical professionals opinion on medical necessity is the crucial factor. You may disagree with their analysis . . . but I'd venture a guess that they're a bit more knowledgeable about the subject than you or I.

 

I do. God help me, but I cannot stop the belief that this kind of thing is more mania than medical. I know we've had this conversation on HuskerBoard before and there were some lengthy posts in support of gender identity disorder, but I still don't buy it. This is one I'm not going to trust the doctors on. If someone suddenly became convinced they were a leopard, would psychiatrists recommend genetic modification to add a tail and claws and spots? To me it's the same thing, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone with that statement.

Having spent a grand total of zero minutes learning about gender identity disorder . . . I'm not in any position to argue with you. I'll leave that one to the experts.

[sd'sker]

You are either not understanding what Comish and I are saying or you are choosing to ignore it.

 

We fully understand that this sex change surgery is a very strange case that very well may never come up again. We aren't arguing that.

 

What we are saying is that it is a symptom of the bigger problems. When governmental decisions are made on "compassion" instead of common sense huge things go really haywire and huge programs get put in place that cost huge amounts of money.

you either are not understanding what i am saying, or you are choosing to ignore it. this is an anomaly. this one story makes national news and now you have proof of bigger problems. stop saying compassion, those were my words and not the gov'ts justification. the gov'ts justification were the legal experts who testified who know more about the subject-matter than anyone here arguing. i would rather have a gov't that goes by the testimony of experts (even if wrong) than does whatever it thinks is best and thinks that it knows better. the gov't (as in the courts) was an impartial entity removed from the decision making until it came to judging the expert testimony provided by surely both sides. again, you want to talk about a line. as i have mentioned before, but you seem to not understand or just plain ignore, you want to talk about drawing lines? well what about the other way? what if the gov't draws the line that experts are irrelevant and it will determine what is and is not necessary based on their arbitrary criteria? would that be better?

[zoogs]

Is this considered medical consensus? I would be surprised to learn if that is the case.

[carlfense]

Is this considered medical consensus? I would be surprised to learn if that is the case.

That probably depends on your definition of consensus.

[zoogs]

yeah, and to be clear I have no idea what I'm talking about here. IMO it would seem to set a highly ... let's just call it troubling, precedent.

[carlfense]

yeah, and to be clear I have no idea what I'm talking about here. IMO it would seem to set a highly ... let's just call it troubling, precedent.

You're probably on the right track though. I'd imagine it's controversial even among psychologists.