LeBron/Kobe/MJ

[B.B. Hemingway]

I'm gonna reiterate my thoughts on this subject. I grew up watching Jordan and Magic and Bird. I have seen the Kobe era. I've seen Lebrons career. I am biased but realistic. MJ won 6 titles in 6 tries. 6 finals MVP awards. NEVER played a game 7 in the finals. Early in his career he was told by all the experts that a scoring champ could never carry his team to championships. one season he averaged 32.7 pts 8 Rebs an 8 assists. 2.89steals .8 blocks. Not even Mr all around Bron Bron has done that! Someone posted that MJ attracted other great players to come play with him is just pulling sh#t out of the air. Other than Dennis Rodman, whom nobody wanted at the time, MJ won with players drafted either 32 in the first round or scrub role players that could do one thing for the team. Pippen doesn't become the player he did on another team.

 

Kobe is a great player. Not even in my top 10 of greatest ever. He's MJ lite. Better perimeter shooter than Mike but he was a volume guy. Kobe didn't attract other talent IMO either. Phil Jackson did.

 

Lebron is a freak of an athlete. Great basketball player and I think he's reached his peak as a player. The greatness of a player is how long he can sustain it. He is 1 of 3 in the finals. His failure to lure other good players to Cleveland is why he had to leave. Could you imagine if MJ and Barkley left after their rookie deals and went and played with Hakeem or Ewing. Fuggetaboutit! Bron will always have an asterisk next to his Miami career IMO.

 

This discussion starts an ends with MJ.

+1 everything except the bolded.

Gimme your top ten.

 

Jordan

Kareem

Russell

Wilt

Magic

Bird

Oscar

Shaq

Jerry West

Hakeem

 

I put Kobe at 10-15. In there with Tim Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Elgin Baylor, pistol Pete. Some combo of those in my next tier.

 

I understand the respect for the historical players, and what they accomplished; and championships DO matter. However, do you really think any of the bolded could outplay Kobe with both in their primes?

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

Kobe is a great player. Not even in my top 10 of greatest ever. He's MJ lite. Better perimeter shooter than Mike but he was a volume guy. Kobe didn't attract other talent IMO either. Phil Jackson did.

 

 

Agreed with everything except bolded as well, and with footnotes. Yes, he's MJ lite, but he's really the closest anyone has or will get, and not including him in the top 10 is just bollocks. I mean yeah you can come up with legitimate arguments about his volume scoring, his field goal percentage, his overtaking of games to his teams detriment, but when you look at the big picture of where it's brought him, it's worked. Who else will ever finish with his resume? How many similarly molded players has he absolutely blown by or been superior to through either success, longevity, legacy, performance or a combination of many/all? Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, Baron Davis, Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade, Ray Allen, Gilbert Arenas, Richard Jefferson and every other name that doesn't even deserve to be listed.

 

I could go on and on, and I'm biased, but I don't see how there's any legitimate way to put Kobe outside of top 5 all time when you look at the whole body of work. How can you not?

I agree that nobody's come closer than Kobe to MJs style of play. I guess I'm discounting him for winning 3 titles with arguably the most dominant center to ever play. Not necessarily a knock on Kobe but more an acknowledgment of Shaqs greatness.

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

I'm gonna reiterate my thoughts on this subject. I grew up watching Jordan and Magic and Bird. I have seen the Kobe era. I've seen Lebrons career. I am biased but realistic. MJ won 6 titles in 6 tries. 6 finals MVP awards. NEVER played a game 7 in the finals. Early in his career he was told by all the experts that a scoring champ could never carry his team to championships. one season he averaged 32.7 pts 8 Rebs an 8 assists. 2.89steals .8 blocks. Not even Mr all around Bron Bron has done that! Someone posted that MJ attracted other great players to come play with him is just pulling sh#t out of the air. Other than Dennis Rodman, whom nobody wanted at the time, MJ won with players drafted either 32 in the first round or scrub role players that could do one thing for the team. Pippen doesn't become the player he did on another team.

 

Kobe is a great player. Not even in my top 10 of greatest ever. He's MJ lite. Better perimeter shooter than Mike but he was a volume guy. Kobe didn't attract other talent IMO either. Phil Jackson did.

 

Lebron is a freak of an athlete. Great basketball player and I think he's reached his peak as a player. The greatness of a player is how long he can sustain it. He is 1 of 3 in the finals. His failure to lure other good players to Cleveland is why he had to leave. Could you imagine if MJ and Barkley left after their rookie deals and went and played with Hakeem or Ewing. Fuggetaboutit! Bron will always have an asterisk next to his Miami career IMO.

 

This discussion starts an ends with MJ.

+1 everything except the bolded.

Gimme your top ten.

 

Jordan

Kareem

Russell

Wilt

Magic

Bird

Oscar

Shaq

Jerry West

Hakeem

 

I put Kobe at 10-15. In there with Tim Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Elgin Baylor, pistol Pete. Some combo of those in my next tier.

 

I understand the respect for the historical players, and what they accomplished; and championships DO matter. However, do you really think any of the bolded could outplay Kobe with both in their primes?

Its just my opinion. It's not a one on one tourney bracket. Who you got?

[Landlord]

Its just my opinion. It's not a one on one tourney bracket. Who you got?

 

In no particular order:

 

Jordan

Wilt

Kareem

Magic

Shaq

Kobe

Russel

Oscar

Bird

Lebron (assuming continued greatness)

 

 

 

I agree that nobody's come closer than Kobe to MJs style of play. I guess I'm discounting him for winning 3 titles with arguably the most dominant center to ever play. Not necessarily a knock on Kobe but more an acknowledgment of Shaqs greatness.

 

 

Yes, Shaq was other-worldly, and yes Kobe benefited a great deal by having him, but even though he was surrounded by immense talent, he wasn't second fiddle to Shaq. People have weird hindsight on this; it wasn't Shaq's team - it was their team together. Both were clutch, both played at elite levels, both were counted on late to lead, etc.

[B.B. Hemingway]

I'm gonna reiterate my thoughts on this subject. I grew up watching Jordan and Magic and Bird. I have seen the Kobe era. I've seen Lebrons career. I am biased but realistic. MJ won 6 titles in 6 tries. 6 finals MVP awards. NEVER played a game 7 in the finals. Early in his career he was told by all the experts that a scoring champ could never carry his team to championships. one season he averaged 32.7 pts 8 Rebs an 8 assists. 2.89steals .8 blocks. Not even Mr all around Bron Bron has done that! Someone posted that MJ attracted other great players to come play with him is just pulling sh#t out of the air. Other than Dennis Rodman, whom nobody wanted at the time, MJ won with players drafted either 32 in the first round or scrub role players that could do one thing for the team. Pippen doesn't become the player he did on another team.

 

Kobe is a great player. Not even in my top 10 of greatest ever. He's MJ lite. Better perimeter shooter than Mike but he was a volume guy. Kobe didn't attract other talent IMO either. Phil Jackson did.

 

Lebron is a freak of an athlete. Great basketball player and I think he's reached his peak as a player. The greatness of a player is how long he can sustain it. He is 1 of 3 in the finals. His failure to lure other good players to Cleveland is why he had to leave. Could you imagine if MJ and Barkley left after their rookie deals and went and played with Hakeem or Ewing. Fuggetaboutit! Bron will always have an asterisk next to his Miami career IMO.

 

This discussion starts an ends with MJ.

+1 everything except the bolded.

Gimme your top ten.

 

Jordan

Kareem

Russell

Wilt

Magic

Bird

Oscar

Shaq

Jerry West

Hakeem

 

I put Kobe at 10-15. In there with Tim Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Elgin Baylor, pistol Pete. Some combo of those in my next tier.

 

I understand the respect for the historical players, and what they accomplished; and championships DO matter. However, do you really think any of the bolded could outplay Kobe with both in their primes?

Its just my opinion. It's not a one on one tourney bracket. Who you got?

 

Jordan--Bird--Magic--Kareem--Shaq--Kobe--Hakeem--Duncan--Wilt--.. Lebron will easily fit into this list, but we'll wait until his career is done.... To your "one on one bracket" comment; I have always found it interesting to see how different people fit players from past generations into their all-time great conversations/lists.... Did they accomplish more in their time? In a lot of cases yes, but are they better "players"? In most cases, no....

[Ratt Mhule]

The OKC series is showing the importance of Westbrook, and its also showing that Durant is not in Lebrons realm.... so all that talk can stop. That Mavs finals was atleast 4 years ago, not two.... Lebron was extremely clutch throughout last years playoffs and its continued this year. He is on top right now and I dont see that changing anytime soon.

 

You serious Clark?

 

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking.... I better start fact-checking every post I make

 

Just messing with ya man. Mavs are my favorite team so that year was awesome. This year I don't know who Im going for yet. I kinda like the Warriors team to tell you the truth. Their series with the Nuggets has been the best series so far IMO.

[B.B. Hemingway]

The OKC series is showing the importance of Westbrook, and its also showing that Durant is not in Lebrons realm.... so all that talk can stop. That Mavs finals was atleast 4 years ago, not two.... Lebron was extremely clutch throughout last years playoffs and its continued this year. He is on top right now and I dont see that changing anytime soon.

 

You serious Clark?

 

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking.... I better start fact-checking every post I make

 

Just messing with ya man. Mavs are my favorite team so that year was awesome. This year I don't know who Im going for yet. I kinda like the Warriors team to tell you the truth. Their series with the Nuggets has been the best series so far IMO.

 

Curry (aside from Lebron) is my favorite player to watch in the NBA. That jump shot is silky-smooth....

[HuskerShark]

Curry (aside from Lebron) is my favorite player to watch in the NBA. That jump shot is silky-smooth....

 

Curry is really shooting up my list of favorite players as well. He's got an amazing shot, and he's a great ball handler too.

 

Lebron IMO is not viewer friendly. He puts up a lot of stats and dominates most every game because of his physical presence, but to me, he's ugly to watch play basketball. It's supposed to be a game of gracefulness, and he and the rest of his gang make it look more like wrestling or rugby with how they play it. They all set moving screens and mug the other team and then whine whenever they get a foul called on them.

[B.B. Hemingway]

Curry (aside from Lebron) is my favorite player to watch in the NBA. That jump shot is silky-smooth....

 

Curry is really shooting up my list of favorite players as well. He's got an amazing shot, and he's a great ball handler too.

 

Lebron IMO is not viewer friendly. He puts up a lot of stats and dominates most every game because of his physical presence, but to me, he's ugly to watch play basketball. It's supposed to be a game of gracefulness, and he and the rest of his gang make it look more like wrestling or rugby with how they play it. They all set moving screens and mug the other team and then whine whenever they get a foul called on them.

 

I agree that the Heat do whine a lot, but if you don't think Lebron plays beautiful basketball than you're either a hater, or blind (with all do respect).... The guy has incredible vision, is as good of a defender as there is. He almost always makes the right basketball play (such as hitting the open teammate). Not to mention that his overall athletic ability is something too marvel at. Lebron plays a beautiful/unique brand of basketball.... Since he has improved his jump shot, and developed some moves in the post; he has become the most well-rounded basketball player that I can ever remember watching....

[HuskerShark]

I agree that the Heat do whine a lot, but if you don't think Lebron plays beautiful basketball than you're either a hater, or blind (with all do respect).... The guy has incredible vision, is as good of a defender as there is. He almost always makes the right basketball play (such as hitting the open teammate). Not to mention that his overall athletic ability is something too marvel at. Lebron plays a beautiful/unique brand of basketball.... Since he has improved his jump shot, and developed some moves in the post; he has become the most well-rounded basketball player that I can ever remember watching....

 

Try watching a video of MJ (highlights or game tape, either one) then try watching Lebron. MJ made basketball into an art form. Lebron just uses brute force to do what he wants to do. More power to him, but it's not fun for me to watch.

 

And I'm admittedly a little bit of a hater.

[B.B. Hemingway]

I agree that the Heat do whine a lot, but if you don't think Lebron plays beautiful basketball than you're either a hater, or blind (with all do respect).... The guy has incredible vision, is as good of a defender as there is. He almost always makes the right basketball play (such as hitting the open teammate). Not to mention that his overall athletic ability is something too marvel at. Lebron plays a beautiful/unique brand of basketball.... Since he has improved his jump shot, and developed some moves in the post; he has become the most well-rounded basketball player that I can ever remember watching....

 

Try watching a video of MJ (highlights or game tape, either one) then try watching Lebron. MJ made basketball into an art form. Lebron just uses brute force to do what he wants to do. More power to him, but it's not fun for me to watch.

 

And I'm admittedly a little bit of a hater.

 

I'm not arguing that M.J. didn't play pretty basketball( he certainly did). They have two very different styles, but both fun too watch, in my opinion....

[beanman]

I agree that the Heat do whine a lot, but if you don't think Lebron plays beautiful basketball than you're either a hater, or blind (with all do respect).... The guy has incredible vision, is as good of a defender as there is. He almost always makes the right basketball play (such as hitting the open teammate). Not to mention that his overall athletic ability is something too marvel at. Lebron plays a beautiful/unique brand of basketball.... Since he has improved his jump shot, and developed some moves in the post; he has become the most well-rounded basketball player that I can ever remember watching....

 

Try watching a video of MJ (highlights or game tape, either one) then try watching Lebron. MJ made basketball into an art form. Lebron just uses brute force to do what he wants to do. More power to him, but it's not fun for me to watch.

 

And I'm admittedly a little bit of a hater.

 

I agree that the Heat do whine a lot, but if you don't think Lebron plays beautiful basketball than you're either a hater, or blind (with all do respect).... The guy has incredible vision, is as good of a defender as there is. He almost always makes the right basketball play (such as hitting the open teammate). Not to mention that his overall athletic ability is something too marvel at. Lebron plays a beautiful/unique brand of basketball.... Since he has improved his jump shot, and developed some moves in the post; he has become the most well-rounded basketball player that I can ever remember watching....

 

Try watching a video of MJ (highlights or game tape, either one) then try watching Lebron. MJ made basketball into an art form. Lebron just uses brute force to do what he wants to do. More power to him, but it's not fun for me to watch.

 

And I'm admittedly a little bit of a hater.

 

This pretty much sums it up for me. MJ is a better basketball player. Lebron is just a once in a generation/ lifetime sort of athlete who chose the right sport to excel in for his body type and skill set.

[B.B. Hemingway]

I agree that the Heat do whine a lot, but if you don't think Lebron plays beautiful basketball than you're either a hater, or blind (with all do respect).... The guy has incredible vision, is as good of a defender as there is. He almost always makes the right basketball play (such as hitting the open teammate). Not to mention that his overall athletic ability is something too marvel at. Lebron plays a beautiful/unique brand of basketball.... Since he has improved his jump shot, and developed some moves in the post; he has become the most well-rounded basketball player that I can ever remember watching....

 

Try watching a video of MJ (highlights or game tape, either one) then try watching Lebron. MJ made basketball into an art form. Lebron just uses brute force to do what he wants to do. More power to him, but it's not fun for me to watch.

 

And I'm admittedly a little bit of a hater.

 

I agree that the Heat do whine a lot, but if you don't think Lebron plays beautiful basketball than you're either a hater, or blind (with all do respect).... The guy has incredible vision, is as good of a defender as there is. He almost always makes the right basketball play (such as hitting the open teammate). Not to mention that his overall athletic ability is something too marvel at. Lebron plays a beautiful/unique brand of basketball.... Since he has improved his jump shot, and developed some moves in the post; he has become the most well-rounded basketball player that I can ever remember watching....

 

Try watching a video of MJ (highlights or game tape, either one) then try watching Lebron. MJ made basketball into an art form. Lebron just uses brute force to do what he wants to do. More power to him, but it's not fun for me to watch.

 

And I'm admittedly a little bit of a hater.

 

This pretty much sums it up for me. MJ is a better basketball player. Lebron is just a once in a generation/ lifetime sort of athlete who chose the right sport to excel in for his body type and skill set.

That describes every elite athlete in every sport! There are aspects of Lebron's game that are better than Jordan's.... Jordan is the better player as of now, but Lebron has 7-8 years of prime left to try and catch him.... Blake Griffin is a great athlete, so is DeAndre Jordan, Nate Robinson (the list could go on for a while) and none of them are near the basketball player Lebron is.... That is the laziest excuse I've heard to describe why Lebron is great, lol.....

[HuskerShark]

I can only think of one aspect of Lebron's game that is better than Jordan's, and that is his post skills on both ends of the court. MJ was superior in every other way.

[beanman]

I can only think of one aspect of Lebron's game that is better than Jordan's, and that is his post skills on both ends of the court. MJ was superior in every other way.

 

Jordan's offensive post skills are better than Lebron's. Defensively, sure. He's much bigger. Kobe's better in the post than Lebron as well.