Landlord Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 If the Cavaliers could have the best record in the league two years in a row, they were good enough to win a championship. Quote Link to comment
QMany Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 If the Cavaliers could have the best record in the league two years in a row, they were good enough to win a championship. ... but then LeBron would have all of the pressure on him. This way, it can be DWades, or Bosh, or Spoelstra's fault. Quote Link to comment
RedRedJarvisRedwine Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I am one of the biggest MJ fans you will ever find. MJ got beat up and carried the Bulls as far as he could in his early years. He got abused by the Pistons and couldn't get by them. What did he do to get over that hump? Did he call his buddies on another Eastern Conference team and collude to form some super-team? Hell no! Obviously he got some roster help with the Bulls eventually, but he didn't take the easy way out. I'm just playing devils advocate. LeBron is going to go down as one of the game's all-time greats, and I think he may be the greatest athlete of all time. I just don't like how the whole Heat team turned out. Obviously it was better for his career, but I think it will tarnish his legacy at the same time, if that makes sense. Just like Lebron, Jordan took aweful Bulls teams to the playoffs early in his career. Hence the two of them being early draft picks though I'm still convinced Cleveland was tanking games to get ping long balls and Stern made sure he went to Cleveland. Quote Link to comment
RedRedJarvisRedwine Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Just basketball wise. 6 finals, 6 rings, 6 finals mvps. End of discussion! Nobody can boast that kind of perfection. Moving on. I am glad you can come in here and rule the rings and say when threads are done. In 10 years, Lebron has accomplished this, MOSTLY himself, before he got Wade and Bosh next to him... NBA Champion NBA Finals MVP 3 time NBA MVP 2x NBA All-Star Game MVP Rookie of the Year 6x NBA All-NBA First team 4x All-Defensive first team NBA All rookie first team with many more accomplishments. Lebron is right behind him, while putting up STAGGERING numbers, with playing 2/3's the time MJ has, and much less than Kobe. Lebron could outperform Michael in every single award and category that they track and he wouldn't equal up to the perfection that was Michael Jordan in my eyes. Maybe it's just the information age, but Lebron has shown himself as too imperfect in his legacy. Tarnished and tainted in too many ways, looking big picture, to compare him with the GOAT. : This was my point. Neither Kobe or Lebron will ever be perfect in the finals. Quote Link to comment
Lyons in the Sea of Red. Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Give me Bron Bron. Quote Link to comment
RedRedJarvisRedwine Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Just basketball wise. 6 finals, 6 rings, 6 finals mvps. End of discussion! Nobody can boast that kind of perfection. Moving on. I am glad you can come in here and rule the rings and say when threads are done. In 10 years, Lebron has accomplished this, MOSTLY himself, before he got Wade and Bosh next to him... NBA Champion NBA Finals MVP 3 time NBA MVP 2x NBA All-Star Game MVP Rookie of the Year 6x NBA All-NBA First team 4x All-Defensive first team NBA All rookie first team with many more accomplishments. Lebron is right behind him, while putting up STAGGERING numbers, with playing 2/3's the time MJ has, and much less than Kobe. By me saying end of discussion, it simply means there is no moving me off my opinion. And as far as I'm concerned, unless Kobe and Bron Bron can go back and unlose(new word- it's gonna be a thing) finals, then MJ takes it. Is Kobe great, absolutely. There's something about him that annoys me. When he first came into the league, he mimicked Jordan in everything. Watch old post game interviews of MJ and early Kobe. It's creepy. I give Kobe the edge over MJ in speed and 3pt shooting. Lebron is a great player. Not arguing his accomplishments past or future. Unbelievable physical specimen. He's getting better too. My problem with the Lebron over even Kobe much less MJ argument is this. Lebron won a title last year. Name the 5 best players in the league besides him. Players that will be great champions themselves not just great individual players. All the current players that fit that category in my opinion are players on the decline. Kobe, Duncan. DWade. So who's up next. Melo? CP3? Griffin? Durant? Other than KD I don't see a player today than can carry their teams to multiple titles, mvps, etc. to me the league is diluted right in the middle of Lebrons prime. Also, he's played his whole career in the east. Top heAvy conference the last few years. Boston, Miami, orlando(with Howard) Cleveland(with Lebron). Another thing that hurts him to no fault of his own. He hasn't got to battle Kobe or the SA trio in the finals. Teams that have won. And finally his clutch time misfortunes. Granted he's getting better. But when you think of MJ and Kobe you think of late game clutch abilities. I remember watching Jordan and later Kobe when the game was on the line. Even if they didn't come through in a situation that failure is the norm. You always thought it was a given that they would pull it out. It's how those two players made you feel when they were in those situations that separate them from Lebron. It's how those two made the opposing team feel helplessly at their mercy. Quote Link to comment
QMany Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 That is a tough argument because Larry Legend and Magic were coming down when MJ was entering his prime. It will always go back to his choice to go to Miami. "If you can't beat them, join them." I just can't see MJ or Kobe ever doing that. I don't like the Heat. I didn't mind them when just DWade was there. Then you get Bron and Bosh all teaming up like best players in a pickup game who are scared to go against eachother and lose court, Jesus Shuttlesworth taking half salary to come down there, Mario Chalmers being a punk, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment
RedRedJarvisRedwine Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 That is a tough argument because Larry Legend and Magic were coming down when MJ was entering his prime. It will always go back to his choice to go to Miami. "If you can't beat them, join them." I just can't see MJ or Kobe ever doing that. I don't like the Heat. I didn't mind them when just DWade was there. Then you get Bron and Bosh all teaming up like best players in a pickup game who are scared to go against eachother and lose court, Jesus Shuttlesworth taking half salary to come down there, Mario Chalmers being a punk, etc. Actually, Larry's decline was a bad body. And Magic was at his peak before the HIV thing came out. Their respective teams were getting old and declining. MJ played against Barkley, Ewing, Stockton and Malone, Reggie Miller, Olajuwon, David Robinson, etc! All guys that probably have one ring if not for MJ. Olajuwon and Robinson have rings cause MJ stepped out. Quote Link to comment
QMany Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 That is a tough argument because Larry Legend and Magic were coming down when MJ was entering his prime. It will always go back to his choice to go to Miami. "If you can't beat them, join them." I just can't see MJ or Kobe ever doing that. I don't like the Heat. I didn't mind them when just DWade was there. Then you get Bron and Bosh all teaming up like best players in a pickup game who are scared to go against eachother and lose court, Jesus Shuttlesworth taking half salary to come down there, Mario Chalmers being a punk, etc. Actually, Larry's decline was a bad body. And Magic was at his peak before the HIV thing came out. Their respective teams were getting old and declining. MJ played against Barkley, Ewing, Stockton and Malone, Reggie Miller, Olajuwon, David Robinson, etc! All guys that probably have one ring if not for MJ. Olajuwon and Robinson have rings cause MJ stepped out. OK, do you agree with the rest? Quote Link to comment
RedRedJarvisRedwine Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 That is a tough argument because Larry Legend and Magic were coming down when MJ was entering his prime. It will always go back to his choice to go to Miami. "If you can't beat them, join them." I just can't see MJ or Kobe ever doing that. I don't like the Heat. I didn't mind them when just DWade was there. Then you get Bron and Bosh all teaming up like best players in a pickup game who are scared to go against eachother and lose court, Jesus Shuttlesworth taking half salary to come down there, Mario Chalmers being a punk, etc. Actually, Larry's decline was a bad body. And Magic was at his peak before the HIV thing came out. Their respective teams were getting old and declining. MJ played against Barkley, Ewing, Stockton and Malone, Reggie Miller, Olajuwon, David Robinson, etc! All guys that probably have one ring if not for MJ. Olajuwon and Robinson have rings cause MJ stepped out. OK, do you agree with the rest? Oh yeah. Think about one team and one player keeping so many first ballot HOFers from titles for a whole decade sans Hakeem and Robinson. Want to talk what ifs. He could have 9 rings realistically. The two Houston were allowed by MJ to win and possibly one more the year he hung it up from Chicago. That would have been 9. Now I know that injuries happen and blah blah blah, but I've never seen a player that could convince people that he was unbeatable like him. It's like the tiger hey days. People were just psyched out mentally. Quote Link to comment
T_O_Bull Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I don't think Kobe will get another ring unless Jeanie Buss takes over the team. Her brother is a Dicckkk! T_O_B Quote Link to comment
B.B. Hemingway Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 This Kobe/Lebron debate is easy for me.... After Shaq left L.A., the Lakers stayed around the middle of the western conference for a few years, barely making the playoffs (until they got Gasol). Lebron took that horrible Cavs team to the finals against the Spurs. Lebron can do so much more with less.... This debate isn't even close for me, Lebron is better than Kobe ever was, and he has been for 4-5 years now.... Quote Link to comment
QMany Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I'd like to see LeBron's career without Wade and Bosh (and Ray Allen). Hell, he LOST an NBA Final with them. Quote Link to comment
Landlord Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 This Kobe/Lebron debate is easy for me.... After Shaq left L.A., the Lakers stayed around the middle of the western conference for a few years, barely making the playoffs (until they got Gasol). Lebron took that horrible Cavs team to the finals against the Spurs. Lebron can do so much more with less.... This debate isn't even close for me, Lebron is better than Kobe ever was, and he has been for 4-5 years now.... The Cleveland Cavaliers were so much better of a team than the Lakers were after the Shaq and co. fallout. We're talking about Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm and co. Freaking Smush Parker Quote Link to comment
StPaulHusker Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 I think Lebron is now or will be by the end of his career by far the most complete player of the 3 as far as stats go. but until he gets the same amount of rings and MVP's as Jordan and Kobe, I would say he is still 3rd. Regardless of who helped whom win a championship Quote Link to comment
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