Shatel's Article

[True2tRA]

Blasphemy! I refuse to even read this! Osborne and McBride are Gods of Men. I will not have anyone say otherwise!

 

Seriously though, I do respect the heck out of both these men. Great men and great coaches. I couldn't imagine Nebraska football without either of them. It was before my time being that I was born in '81, I got to live through most of the good stuff, but you are probably right we would have ran them off.

 

Fact is, things have changed. No coach anywhere should expect to be given the sort of time coaches were given in the past. Not anywhere. So it's not just Nebraska. There is a win now mentality, there's too much money involved. Also, as Nebraska has shown, it doesn't take long to go from greatness, to not even hearing your named mentioned by national media. So whether it's right or wrong, Bo has to understand that he has got to get things fixed quickly. Not because I say so or anyone else says so. It just seems to be the way things are now unfortunately. For Bo's sake, I hope he does it. I think he's a good coach, he just chose a hell of a place to take his first HC gig. Nothing easy about it.

And how many places that have run off good coaches have had any better luck with the next guy?

 

Exactly. It rarely happens. Which is why firing Solich was a giant f#*k up in the first place.

[B.B. Hemingway]

Blasphemy! I refuse to even read this! Osborne and McBride are Gods of Men. I will not have anyone say otherwise!

 

Seriously though, I do respect the heck out of both these men. Great men and great coaches. I couldn't imagine Nebraska football without either of them. It was before my time being that I was born in '81, I got to live through most of the good stuff, but you are probably right we would have ran them off.

 

Fact is, things have changed. No coach anywhere should expect to be given the sort of time coaches were given in the past. Not anywhere. So it's not just Nebraska. There is a win now mentality, there's too much money involved. Also, as Nebraska has shown, it doesn't take long to go from greatness, to not even hearing your named mentioned by national media. So whether it's right or wrong, Bo has to understand that he has got to get things fixed quickly. Not because I say so or anyone else says so. It just seems to be the way things are now unfortunately. For Bo's sake, I hope he does it. I think he's a good coach, he just chose a hell of a place to take his first HC gig. Nothing easy about it.

And how many places that have run off good coaches have had any better luck with the next guy?

 

Exactly. It rarely happens. Which is why firing Solich was a giant f#*k up in the first place.

 

I would agree that firing Solich (or anyone) after a 10-3 season was absurd, but does anyone actually believe that Frankie was the long term solution here? Without question the program was headed south, and the hiring of Billy C accelerated the process....

[Landlord]

Good post B3XII, except for one thing. We didn't lose 5 straight games in 2007 - we throttled Kansas State remember?

 

 

Therefore man that post sucks and is completely discredited good job.

[Vizsla1]

Bottom line- Winning cures a lot of things. Bo makes a pretty good living coaching a program that has not beaten anyone on significance in the last 5 years, winning no conference titles, and not being in a BCS game. Is Bo developing players? I guess if we count the two that were drafted last year.

[StPaulHusker]

Blasphemy! I refuse to even read this! Osborne and McBride are Gods of Men. I will not have anyone say otherwise!

 

Seriously though, I do respect the heck out of both these men. Great men and great coaches. I couldn't imagine Nebraska football without either of them. It was before my time being that I was born in '81, I got to live through most of the good stuff, but you are probably right we would have ran them off.

 

Fact is, things have changed. No coach anywhere should expect to be given the sort of time coaches were given in the past. Not anywhere. So it's not just Nebraska. There is a win now mentality, there's too much money involved. Also, as Nebraska has shown, it doesn't take long to go from greatness, to not even hearing your named mentioned by national media. So whether it's right or wrong, Bo has to understand that he has got to get things fixed quickly. Not because I say so or anyone else says so. It just seems to be the way things are now unfortunately. For Bo's sake, I hope he does it. I think he's a good coach, he just chose a hell of a place to take his first HC gig. Nothing easy about it.

And how many places that have run off good coaches have had any better luck with the next guy?

 

Exactly. It rarely happens. Which is why firing Solich was a giant f#*k up in the first place.

 

I would agree that firing Solich (or anyone) after a 10-3 season was absurd, but does anyone actually believe that Frankie was the long term solution here? Without question the program was headed south, and the hiring of Billy C accelerated the process....

I think the phrase "long term solution" isn't the right way to think of Frank. After the 7-7 season, he did some difficult things with friends on the coaching staff and brought in new, younger, energetic coaches that might have turned the ship in the right direction. It's not like it was way off course. The program just needed some adjustments to stay in tune with the rest of CFB. Who knows what would have happened.

 

Frank's only real fireable offense was letting Barney Cotton be the OC.

[True2tRA]

WARNING! LONG POST AHEAD!

 

Why does Bo need to earn our trust back? Why is it our trust? I trust the guy completely, because I don't really dwell on the results we've seen on the field; instead, I look for where the program is going. Bo has a track record of winning, or at least being competitive with better talent. We saw that in 2009 when we lost 3 games (albeit one to Iowa State where the football was laced with grease) by a combined 4 points. We saw it in 2010 as well, when we lost 2 games by a combined 10 points (and you could say that we were never really out of the Texas game, and the debacle that was the Texas A&M game--well let's just not talk about that). Both years Nebraska held the lead in the conference championship game; both years Nebraska's offense could not generate the drives (not necessarily points) to close out the ball game.

 

Recruiting isn't an easy thing for a first time head coach. I would think that, as a player and with all other things being equal, I would want to play for a coach who has more of an established presence being a head coach. I don't think athletes care too much about what a person did as a defensive or offensive coordinator. In their minds, I think the credit for the success of a program lies on the shoulders of its head coach. So if you don't have the experience, I would be hesitant to want to play for you.

 

We saw the effects of hiring a coordinator who would be a first time head coach. There's a whole lot more responsibility which you take on as a head coach than you do as a defensive coordinator. You are more the CEO of your program, and you have to do all the things necessary to maintain the operation, which I'm assuming is a lot. For someone who is new to that role, maybe too much. When on overload, I don't care who you are, you tend to focus too narrowly on one area and as a result other areas slip. In Bo's case, it was recruiting to a certain extent--remember that players would be hesitant to, all other things being equal, play for a first time head coach.

 

Compounding the problem was the fact that all other things were not equal, and if they weren't, Nebraska was behind the average. We were coming off a 5-7 season, where we lost 5 straight games (including an embarrassing 65-51 loss to Colorado). We didn't play in a bowl game, and the program was unstable. Fast forward a year, with the perception that Nebraska wasn't the school to be if you wanted to win with a first time ever head coach, and the recruits stayed away.

 

When recruiting, there is only so much that you can legally do to convince a player to come to your school. But in the end, it's the player's choice and in the end, there wasn't a lot of things Bo had an advantage over the next school in line in terms of past success or experience. Our recruiting classes suffered as a result.

 

Did I mention that Nebraska also made a change from one power conference to another power conference when it moved from the Big XII to the Big Ten? No? Well they did, and you can bet that Bo wasn't recruiting to play in the Big Ten, he was recruiting to play in the Big XII, conferences which are stylistically different; conferences which require a different kind of talent on the defensive side of the ball. Talent that was not only lacking--the low recruiting classes--but that was of the wrong type. Surely this should've spelt disaster for Nebraska and Bo Pelini.

 

What? We went 9-4 and 10-4 in the Big Ten these past two years? That's not too bad, especially when you consider that we didn't have the level of talent or the type of talent to compete with the Big Ten's style of offense. But we did, and that should speak to Bo's and Co.'s ability to develop players, to mold them into what they need to be to compete and win football games. That's why we managed to reach 9-4 the first year with a win over Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan State. That's why we were able to go 10-4 with wins over Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn State. That's why we were able to reach the Big Ten Championship Game. That's why were able to compete with Georgia, who was :05 away from playing Notre Dame in the National Championship. It wasn't out of some sheer luck that we won 9 and 10 games, respectively. Bo can develop talent, but he can only get the players to their ceilings--and the ceilings don't make hyper-dramatic raises.

 

So despite the losses, Bo--with more experience has a head coach--can give the recruits something to look towards. He can give the recruits the idea that they could be the ones responsible for getting Nebraska back on the national stage. That we are so close to being good again. To some recruits, that is an exciting prospect: to return a school back to former glory. And not a school that is 6 wins a year away from it, but a school that is 1, 2 wins away from it.

 

The talent is there, the ceilings (athletically) are higher than seasons before. Bo has a track record for developing talent and winning with less. Now, he has more. Why should we not trust him? What has he done differently than any other first time ever head coach would have done? Can that question be answered? I think there needs to be a real appreciation of the circumstances surrounding Bo's first couple of years at Nebraska in order to be able to be okay with where Nebraska currently stands. If anything, we should be trusting Bo and his coaching staff more, not less.

 

We have in Bo Pelini, a guy that is consistent, a guy that has shown the ability to develop players. We have seen in those players great athletic ability, but athletic ability that was not good enough at times, partly because their respective ceilings weren't off the charts. Now we have players whose ceilings seem (from what Twitter and the local media are reporting) to be much, much higher. Given Bo's ability to develop talent, why should we not be excited? Why should we not trust in his ability to do more with more?

 

Personally, I'm excited to see what we can get done in the next couple of years. With an easier schedule and better (at least, right now) talent on the defensive side of the ball, these next two years could be very special ones for Bo Pelini, his players, his coaching staff, the media, and the fans.

 

I understand that you like where we are headed. Me too. I think we are getting there, although I didn't think it would be so ugly at times and I thought we might have a CC or two by now. Close, but not quite.

 

Question is, with all of the hurdles we've had to overcome, all of the what some would call "excuses" we've had for recent failures, what happens if in the next two years more hurdles come up? What happens if say.........

 

Coach Beck takes a HC position elsewhere?

Or coach Joseph leaves the secondary to take a DC job somewhere? What happens then? Do we just add these things to the list of reasons and just keep moving on I guess? I don't know you tell me.

 

I just want to see the team win a CC, play in a big time bowl and win that. Hell maybe even be in the NC conversation. Right now though, all I can reasonably ask for is progress and my biggest gripe with this staff right now is that we have seen the same thing for five years in a row now. Yep, you listed all your reasons why, and okay, I can accept that. But when do the reasons for failure run out? When do we take that next step?

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Good post B3XII, except for one thing. We didn't lose 5 straight games in 2007 - we throttled Kansas State remember?

 

 

Therefore man that post sucks and is completely discredited good job.

 

We lost five games in a row:

 

Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Texas, and Kansas, before whooping Kansas State.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

WARNING! LONG POST AHEAD!

 

Why does Bo need to earn our trust back? Why is it our trust? I trust the guy completely, because I don't really dwell on the results we've seen on the field; instead, I look for where the program is going. Bo has a track record of winning, or at least being competitive with better talent. We saw that in 2009 when we lost 3 games (albeit one to Iowa State where the football was laced with grease) by a combined 4 points. We saw it in 2010 as well, when we lost 2 games by a combined 10 points (and you could say that we were never really out of the Texas game, and the debacle that was the Texas A&M game--well let's just not talk about that). Both years Nebraska held the lead in the conference championship game; both years Nebraska's offense could not generate the drives (not necessarily points) to close out the ball game.

 

Recruiting isn't an easy thing for a first time head coach. I would think that, as a player and with all other things being equal, I would want to play for a coach who has more of an established presence being a head coach. I don't think athletes care too much about what a person did as a defensive or offensive coordinator. In their minds, I think the credit for the success of a program lies on the shoulders of its head coach. So if you don't have the experience, I would be hesitant to want to play for you.

 

We saw the effects of hiring a coordinator who would be a first time head coach. There's a whole lot more responsibility which you take on as a head coach than you do as a defensive coordinator. You are more the CEO of your program, and you have to do all the things necessary to maintain the operation, which I'm assuming is a lot. For someone who is new to that role, maybe too much. When on overload, I don't care who you are, you tend to focus too narrowly on one area and as a result other areas slip. In Bo's case, it was recruiting to a certain extent--remember that players would be hesitant to, all other things being equal, play for a first time head coach.

 

Compounding the problem was the fact that all other things were not equal, and if they weren't, Nebraska was behind the average. We were coming off a 5-7 season, where we lost 5 straight games (including an embarrassing 65-51 loss to Colorado). We didn't play in a bowl game, and the program was unstable. Fast forward a year, with the perception that Nebraska wasn't the school to be if you wanted to win with a first time ever head coach, and the recruits stayed away.

 

When recruiting, there is only so much that you can legally do to convince a player to come to your school. But in the end, it's the player's choice and in the end, there wasn't a lot of things Bo had an advantage over the next school in line in terms of past success or experience. Our recruiting classes suffered as a result.

 

Did I mention that Nebraska also made a change from one power conference to another power conference when it moved from the Big XII to the Big Ten? No? Well they did, and you can bet that Bo wasn't recruiting to play in the Big Ten, he was recruiting to play in the Big XII, conferences which are stylistically different; conferences which require a different kind of talent on the defensive side of the ball. Talent that was not only lacking--the low recruiting classes--but that was of the wrong type. Surely this should've spelt disaster for Nebraska and Bo Pelini.

 

What? We went 9-4 and 10-4 in the Big Ten these past two years? That's not too bad, especially when you consider that we didn't have the level of talent or the type of talent to compete with the Big Ten's style of offense. But we did, and that should speak to Bo's and Co.'s ability to develop players, to mold them into what they need to be to compete and win football games. That's why we managed to reach 9-4 the first year with a win over Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan State. That's why we were able to go 10-4 with wins over Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn State. That's why we were able to reach the Big Ten Championship Game. That's why were able to compete with Georgia, who was :05 away from playing Notre Dame in the National Championship. It wasn't out of some sheer luck that we won 9 and 10 games, respectively. Bo can develop talent, but he can only get the players to their ceilings--and the ceilings don't make hyper-dramatic raises.

 

So despite the losses, Bo--with more experience has a head coach--can give the recruits something to look towards. He can give the recruits the idea that they could be the ones responsible for getting Nebraska back on the national stage. That we are so close to being good again. To some recruits, that is an exciting prospect: to return a school back to former glory. And not a school that is 6 wins a year away from it, but a school that is 1, 2 wins away from it.

 

The talent is there, the ceilings (athletically) are higher than seasons before. Bo has a track record for developing talent and winning with less. Now, he has more. Why should we not trust him? What has he done differently than any other first time ever head coach would have done? Can that question be answered? I think there needs to be a real appreciation of the circumstances surrounding Bo's first couple of years at Nebraska in order to be able to be okay with where Nebraska currently stands. If anything, we should be trusting Bo and his coaching staff more, not less.

 

We have in Bo Pelini, a guy that is consistent, a guy that has shown the ability to develop players. We have seen in those players great athletic ability, but athletic ability that was not good enough at times, partly because their respective ceilings weren't off the charts. Now we have players whose ceilings seem (from what Twitter and the local media are reporting) to be much, much higher. Given Bo's ability to develop talent, why should we not be excited? Why should we not trust in his ability to do more with more?

 

Personally, I'm excited to see what we can get done in the next couple of years. With an easier schedule and better (at least, right now) talent on the defensive side of the ball, these next two years could be very special ones for Bo Pelini, his players, his coaching staff, the media, and the fans.

 

I understand that you like where we are headed. Me too. I think we are getting there, although I didn't think it would be so ugly at times and I thought we might have a CC or two by now. Close, but not quite.

 

Question is, with all of the hurdles we've had to overcome, all of the what some would call "excuses" we've had for recent failures, what happens if in the next two years more hurdles come up? What happens if say.........

 

Coach Beck takes a HC position elsewhere?

Or coach Joseph leaves the secondary to take a DC job somewhere? What happens then? Do we just add these things to the list of reasons and just keep moving on I guess? I don't know you tell me.

 

I just want to see the team win a CC, play in a big time bowl and win that. Hell maybe even be in the NC conversation. Right now though, all I can reasonably ask for is progress and my biggest gripe with this staff right now is that we have seen the same thing for five years in a row now. Yep, you listed all your reasons why, and okay, I can accept that. But when do the reasons for failure run out? When do we take that next step?

 

Can we really ask questions about what hasn't happened?

[Landlord]

Good post B3XII, except for one thing. We didn't lose 5 straight games in 2007 - we throttled Kansas State remember?

 

 

Therefore man that post sucks and is completely discredited good job.

 

We lost five games in a row:

 

Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Texas, and Kansas, before whooping Kansas State.

 

 

But you said we lost five straight games including the Colorado game. WHAT IS GOING ON

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Good post B3XII, except for one thing. We didn't lose 5 straight games in 2007 - we throttled Kansas State remember?

 

 

Therefore man that post sucks and is completely discredited good job.

 

We lost five games in a row:

 

Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Texas, and Kansas, before whooping Kansas State.

 

 

But you said we lost five straight games including the Colorado game. WHAT IS GOING ON

 

I don't edit myself. I meant to say 6 out of our last 7, but got in a rush.

[Landlord]

Good post B3XII, except for one thing. We didn't lose 5 straight games in 2007 - we throttled Kansas State remember?

 

 

Therefore man that post sucks and is completely discredited good job.

 

We lost five games in a row:

 

Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Texas, and Kansas, before whooping Kansas State.

 

 

But you said we lost five straight games including the Colorado game. WHAT IS GOING ON

 

I don't edit myself. I meant to say 6 out of our last 7, but got in a rush.

 

You are a disgrace to your signature, sir.

[knapplc]

I agree Bo needs time. And if nine wins and being in the hunt for the conference title every year is his ceiling for the next few years, I can live with that.

 

What most people are grumbling about isn't just the fact that he hasn't gotten it done, it's that too often when the wheels fall off, they REALLY fall off. Three times in 2012. Three times in 2011. Twice in 2010. Twice in 2009. Those losses weren't just losses, the team looked inept, completely unprepared to play winning football.

 

And it's not getting better, it's getting worse. UCLA, Ohio State and Wisconsin last year. Wisconsin, Michigan and South Carolina the year before. Those six losses were abysmal in the way the team floundered about, especially on defense, which is what Bo was brought in to fix. Callahan got fired for fielding an historically bad defense. Bo's job was to fix that, and he did for a couple of years. But it got worse in 2010. It got worse again the next year, and last year it was as bad - at times - as 2007.

 

The argument that Bo is developing talent is interesting. I'd like to see who Bo has developed from raw into something superlative. The quickest, most obvious answer is Ndamukong Suh. But who else? Matty O'Hanlon? He was decent, but hardly an impactful talent. I'm not seeing that angle of this.

 

I'm willing to give Bo time, but I'm not willing to completely turn a blind eye to the problems we have.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Good post B3XII, except for one thing. We didn't lose 5 straight games in 2007 - we throttled Kansas State remember?

 

 

Therefore man that post sucks and is completely discredited good job.

 

We lost five games in a row:

 

Missouri, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Texas, and Kansas, before whooping Kansas State.

 

 

But you said we lost five straight games including the Colorado game. WHAT IS GOING ON

 

I don't edit myself. I meant to say 6 out of our last 7, but got in a rush.

 

You are a disgrace to your signature, sir.

 

I don't write for a living--that's not my thing.

 

By the by, I think most Nebraska fans are in need of a cooling of their hedonic thermometers.

[knapplc]

hedonic thermometers.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa! This is a family-friendly forum, mister.

[StPaulHusker]

I agree Bo needs time. And if nine wins and being in the hunt for the conference title every year is his ceiling for the next few years, I can live with that.

 

What most people are grumbling about isn't just the fact that he hasn't gotten it done, it's that too often when the wheels fall off, they REALLY fall off. Three times in 2012. Three times in 2011. Twice in 2010. Twice in 2009. Those losses weren't just losses, the team looked inept, completely unprepared to play winning football.

 

And it's not getting better, it's getting worse. UCLA, Ohio State and Wisconsin last year. Wisconsin, Michigan and South Carolina the year before. Those six losses were abysmal in the way the team floundered about, especially on defense, which is what Bo was brought in to fix. Callahan got fired for fielding an historically bad defense. Bo's job was to fix that, and he did for a couple of years. But it got worse in 2010. It got worse again the next year, and last year it was as bad - at times - as 2007.

 

The argument that Bo is developing talent is interesting. I'd like to see who Bo has developed from raw into something superlative. The quickest, most obvious answer is Ndamukong Suh. But who else? Matty O'Hanlon? He was decent, but hardly an impactful talent. I'm not seeing that angle of this.

 

I'm willing to give Bo time, but I'm not willing to completely turn a blind eye to the problems we have.

I am having a difficult time coming up with many but Prince Amukamara could be up there. He was recruited as a RB by Callahan.