Comparing Nebraska's most colorful coaches of late

[carlfense]

True, Bo hasn't done it yet. It doesn't mean that he won't this year or next. And I the meantime, he's changed quite a bit, and has been successful in trying to find his way.

I don't think that anyone has said that the bold is impossible. When is your cutoff? Will you support the status quo indefinitely?

 

I guess I expect a bit more than "Coach X could conceivably win big next year." Always next year. Eventually they have to actually win.

 

I distinctly remember that Dr. Tom couldn't win the big one for 20 years, then all of a sudden he won 3 big ones. Sometimes the process takes longer than most would like, but I guess that in today's instant gratification society, a coach doesn't have that opportunity, even when he has had pretty good success.

I think that you're narrowing the parameters quite a bit here to fit with your endless support of Pelini.

 

Also, I think that if you're in favor of Pelini remaining coach it's a mistake to invoke Osborne. If comparisons between Pelini and Osborne are fair game Pelini would have been gone several seasons ago.

[NUpolo8]

I think a lot more coaches could consistently win 9 wins if they weren't trying to win 12, 13, or 14. There's a little bit of risk to getting to those higher numbers. Do you think Bo is taking those risks, or has he settled on 9/10 win seasons and will ride it out hoping that without change, something will change?

 

I think to get to 12, he's going to have to make a major change - and in doing so risk the 9. I don't think he has the balls to do it though.

What kind of risks are we talking about? I really don't understand what the decision point would be for a coach to settle for 9 or risk it going to 12 or more.

 

 

Yeah I'm not understanding the thought process behind that either.

 

I'm thinking he was inferring to a situation to say, sacrifice this year in a way to get Stanton ready, let's the chips fall where they may, and hope a potential 7-5 season means a 13-0 season next year.

 

And he probably doesn't have the good will banked for that.

[StPaulHusker]

JImbo Fisher was a coordinator before taking over at FSU. Gus Mahlzan was a HC for 1 year. Bob Stoops was a coordinator. Brett Bielema was a coordinator. Charlie Strong was a coordinator. Rich Franklin was a coordinator. Mark Dantonio-coordinator. David Shaw-coordinator. Mark Helfrich-coordinator. Sarkisian-coordinator.

the coaches underlined were not first time coaches where they ultimately ended up. just like urb and saban. of course every coach begins a coordinator, but most cut there teeth as a head coach before they make it at a big time program. i would like to think nebraska is a big time program.

 

the coaches not underlined were coordinators at programs where they took over for the head coach, generally pretty successful programs were left to them.

Your arguments are weak.

 

Malzahn-1 year at Ark St.

Dantonio-2 years at Cincy. Maybe I grant you that.

Strong-NO HC experience. Takes Louisville to a BCS

Franklin-No HC experience when taking the job at Vandy. Parlays into big payday at PSU

Sarkisian-NO HC experience when taking job at UW. parlays into big payday at USC

 

And as far as coordinators taking over successful programs-that doesn't mean they continue the same success.

[zoogs]

Outside of committing program suicide and blowing this thing up,

 

Oh, let's not get into hysterics.

 

The reality is there are hundreds of coaches in the world and none of us know all their stories, because that's not our job. Promising guys with success at lower levels abound. Some will work out and be the next great success; some won't.

 

Let's also not pretend Bo Pelini is the only guy in the world who cares about his players in the classroom or cancer-stricken kids.

[1HuskrFan]

Does everyone not realize the same person that hired Miles, hired Bo. I for one am sick and tired of all the Bo bashing. Everyone keeps saying he's had 6 yrs to right the ship. Well kiss my A---, he's had to change conferences, change his recruiting strategy, all while being a first time head coach. Miles came in with a track record of been there and done that. Comparing Nee to Bo is like comparing apples to oranges.. the posters on huskerboard must be terribly bored. Mostly, Bo bashers and the graduated Martinez debate. I've enjoyed Huskerboard give and take, but let's move on to more insightful football info, not the repeat of the same old s--t. GBR

[knapplc]

So... other coaches can't/don't win nine or more games a year, every year, for the past six years, because they're purposefully loading up their team for a specific year, and by doing so, depleting their talent in other years?

 

 

 

That doesn't make any sense at all. And I would like to see some kind of evidence that any coach has actually done this. Because the year-to-year nature of college football coaching makes this action nearly absurd. I can't think of more than two coaches in the past ten years who could have pulled this off and kept their jobs. And neither won fewer than nine games in their last six years of coaching at this level.

[TheSker]

Let's also not pretend that coaches who have won with the consistency Pelini has are a dime a dozen.

[Landlord]

I think a lot more coaches could consistently win 9 wins if they weren't trying to win 12, 13, or 14. There's a little bit of risk to getting to those higher numbers. Do you think Bo is taking those risks, or has he settled on 9/10 win seasons and will ride it out hoping that without change, something will change?

 

I think to get to 12, he's going to have to make a major change - and in doing so risk the 9. I don't think he has the balls to do it though.

What kind of risks are we talking about? I really don't understand what the decision point would be for a coach to settle for 9 or risk it going to 12 or more.

 

 

Yeah I'm not understanding the thought process behind that either.

 

I'm thinking he was inferring to a situation to say, sacrifice this year in a way to get Stanton ready, let's the chips fall where they may, and hope a potential 7-5 season means a 13-0 season next year.

 

And he probably doesn't have the good will banked for that.

 

 

 

 

Taylor Martinez...

[zoogs]

If it's not the first couple of years of a new coach's tenure, who in the world has that 'good will' banked, at a major program? It's still a really puzzling argument.

 

I'd say - and this runs along similar lines as kchusker's thoughts, I suppose - it's more that in responding to the fire, Bo's bunkered down and is so defensive of the marginally Top-25, 4-loss seasons he's accomplished here that this mentality pervades the entire team. There are teams with cultures of no-excuse winning and teams with cultures of 'the fans are being way too harsh on us and our coach, look at how many other teams have done what we've done, we're doing just fine and they should get off our backs. -- despite obviously not trying to have a less-than-excellent mentality.

[74Hunter]

True, Bo hasn't done it yet. It doesn't mean that he won't this year or next. And I the meantime, he's changed quite a bit, and has been successful in trying to find his way.

I don't think that anyone has said that the bold is impossible. When is your cutoff? Will you support the status quo indefinitely?

 

I guess I expect a bit more than "Coach X could conceivably win big next year." Always next year. Eventually they have to actually win.

 

I distinctly remember that Dr. Tom couldn't win the big one for 20 years, then all of a sudden he won 3 big ones. Sometimes the process takes longer than most would like, but I guess that in today's instant gratification society, a coach doesn't have that opportunity, even when he has had pretty good success.

I think that you're narrowing the parameters quite a bit here to fit with your endless support of Pelini.

 

Also, I think that if you're in favor of Pelini remaining coach it's a mistake to invoke Osborne. If comparisons between Pelini and Osborne are fair game Pelini would have been gone several seasons ago.

I'm not supporting Bo infinitely, and again, I'm not comparing him to Dr. Tom. Just simply pointing out the fact that because something hasn't happened, doesn't mean that it can't happen.

 

As for how long would I support him, as long as he is winning at the clip he is, running a clean program, and graduating players.

 

I have this book at home called "More than Winning," it's a good read.

[zoogs]

I have this book at home called "More than Winning," it's a good read.

 

Interesting. I thought you were all about #9wins and how that impressive (for Nebraska) achievement means we need to hang on to Bo. I didn't know it was about more than winning.

[TheSker]

Should we again list the universities in modern college football history who have fired a coach who did not win fewer than 9 games in their tenure? I'll look forward to a repeat of that long list.

[zoogs]

Should we again list the universities in modern college football history who have fired a coach who did not win fewer than 9 games in their tenure? I'll look forward to a repeat of that long list.

 

By all means, go ahead.

[sd'sker]

JImbo Fisher was a coordinator before taking over at FSU. Gus Mahlzan was a HC for 1 year. Bob Stoops was a coordinator. Brett Bielema was a coordinator. Charlie Strong was a coordinator. Rich Franklin was a coordinator. Mark Dantonio-coordinator. David Shaw-coordinator. Mark Helfrich-coordinator. Sarkisian-coordinator.

the coaches underlined were not first time coaches where they ultimately ended up. just like urb and saban. of course every coach begins a coordinator, but most cut there teeth as a head coach before they make it at a big time program. i would like to think nebraska is a big time program.

 

the coaches not underlined were coordinators at programs where they took over for the head coach, generally pretty successful programs were left to them.

Your arguments are weak.

 

Malzahn-1 year at Ark St.

Dantonio-2 years at Cincy. Maybe I grant you that.

Strong-NO HC experience. Takes Louisville to a BCS

Franklin-No HC experience when taking the job at Vandy. Parlays into big payday at PSU

Sarkisian-NO HC experience when taking job at UW. parlays into big payday at USC

 

And as far as coordinators taking over successful programs-that doesn't mean they continue the same success.

i guess we will have to disagree. the the big payday is the point. they got experience and then their big payday. bo just got the big payday i do not think he was ready for it. and sark and strong took weaker programs and did good (i would argue bo has done better than them here at donu; although strong is debatable, he got them to a bcs in a weak conference. but i will grant you strong, then), but they exceeded their expectations (strong by a lot).

 

i just think that if bo is replaced, we might want to look at a coach with head coaching experience.

[Branno]

As usual Knapp goes succinct and accurate. He's such a jerk that way.

 

He also brought up "getting another Miles", and while that's hard I see optimism in how they got Miles. The Nee/Collier/Sadler processes were a nightmare, so the dept sat down, learned from past mistakes, and got it right. And that was for basketball, clearly not the alpha sport at Nebraska. I see no reason why the same thing wouldn't be done, with more care, for the bread winning flagship sport of the University when a change is made. The claim that it's be "just another Callahan" is insane.

 

 

 

 

Miles was a gold mine hire but only in hindsight, and also only after 2 years (who didn't love Bo after 2009?), and believe it or not, I think our basketball program was an easier sell to a good coach than our football program would be. Miles had all of the advantages (minus a recruiting hotbed) of a major bigtime program, without the expectations of one. That makes your job so much more comfortable.

 

 

 

Hmmmmm,

 

You make an interesting point, it's far easier to start from scratch and build something than it is to take over the reigns and steer it back towards past prominence. The only real problems I have in that statement is that many here insist Bo took over a dumpster fire and had to start over from scratch (not saying you have said that, but obviously it's all over the place here). Or, that Means Pedersen knew that, blew it up on purpose and just needed more time with his project and BC (obviously i do not believe this and I'm sure you don't).

 

Anyway, I would say Bo had a similar starting point to Miles. The facilities in North stadium were finally done or about to be done, I'm a believer in saying the program wasn't in shambles but it was without question down, and I remember thinking that 08 was not likely going to be a winning year, and many shared my belief. And that was going to be fine, these things take time. So really, both coaches had lowered expectations and brand new shiny toys in their chest to go start their programs. Sure there are championships in the past in football, but as everyone has taken great joy in telling me lately, they were a long time ago and do not factor I'm today's game. So, why would they affect Bo then?

 

Bo won early, and so has Tim. Bo still had some detractors then, which seems weird, but they were a small minority. And obviously Bo has languished a bit. Now, accountability was spot on about this year being the "salad year" for Nebrasketball. Now, it's possible, but I suppose Miles could start getting short with the new expectations, start barking at officials more, cut off fan interaction, curse out people, and demand what he's doing is good enough, and so on, but I kinda doubt it.

 

Which brings me to my point, look at the first few steps each coach took when starting. Miles has made calculated, smart steps to involve everyone, make them feel part of something, put some good will in the bank, and generally made the program everyone's. Bo....well Bo didn't do that, let's just leave it at that. Unfortunately I believe some of the first critical choices Bo made were absolutely wrong, and he's paying for it now. And unfortunately, I think some of the incorrect choices he made he should have known better, and he should suffer the consequences. I think that's why he's scrambling around letting media back in, tweeting at people, etc. sure it's the right move, but it was the right move six years ago too. And this all feels a little desperate to me.

 

 

Bo is getting criticized for 4 loss seasons, and Miles had a .455 winning percentage last year. There are clearly different standards exactly because the expectation that we should be winning championships year in, year out.

 

Bo's only real drawback is his early PR fumbles. The talk about firing Bo this season didn't happen until a coward leaked the Ohio St tape, and then again after his blowup on Black Friday. Sure people were upset after Minnesota and UCLA, but the major outcries always coincide with a Bo media blunder.

 

You can see a clear pattern back to the 2010 A&M game.

 

I almost wonder if some of those Bo-leavers wouldn't be just fine with Bo as coach if he was better with PR before this year.