Kenny Bell and NCAA Reform

[StPaulHusker]

as far as a i can tell, the main argument against paying athletes is that the fans enjoy the sport the way it is and do not want it compromised.

 

It's not just how you are making it sound, with a "wahh we dont' want you to change our favorite thing!" kind of whining because of personal preference. It's because athletics within the education system were founded with a certain vision and ideals that we are going in a complete 180 in direction from. It's not just that fans get off on it being a certain way, it's that fans think, beyond personal preference, that if we keep going down this path, college athletics will lose all of their integrity.

 

 

which is a little disingenuous when no one seemed to upset that the bcs was nothing more than a cash grab (extremely corrupt, by the way)

 

Haha, you're kidding right? The BCS has been nothing if not controversial due to the decade and a half of coaches and officials and fans being nothing but upset about it.

 

 

the main argument for paying athletes is that everyone involved with college football is making a ton of money except the athletes.

 

Either reference football players or reference athletes - it's important that we don't equate the two, because non-football athletes are a huge part of this discussion. But regardless, college football players are making a ton of money too, compared to their peers. Why are we comparing what they make to what coaches and AD officials make? That makes no sense. You don't compare what the mail sorters in the basement make to the CEO's to cry that it's unfair - you compare what the mail sorters in the basement make compared to the mail sorters at a different company, or compared to the janitors, or compared to the receptionists, or compared to the delivery drivers.

 

Is it fair that a coach or an athletic director makes millions and a student athlete doesn't? Depends on who you ask. But even if it's unfair, then that is a problem that is running throughout our entire country, not just college sports, and if that is a problem, then let's actually treat the problem instead of treating a small microcosm of a symptom of it.

To the first point, Landlord-Who is to blame for athletics and academics going in a 180 degree direction? Its the presidents, AD's, TV executives, etc that want to make billions of dollars but keep the amount of money given to the athlete the same.

 

To the second point-Fans never liked the BCS. Schools may have said so publicly but they weren't bitching when the checks from playing on those games rolled in.

 

The fairness from what I can see is universities continuing to pay coaches, AD's, and even presidents more and more money every year while saying that there is nothing more to give the athlete. These kids see this and feel like they are not told the truth.

[StPaulHusker]

To go along with the above, the median spending per-athlete in 2010 was $92,000 per year.

 

 

The median spending per-full-time-student (non-athlete) in 2010 was $14,000.

Is that scholarship full time student or are you grouping them all together?

[Landlord]

To the first point, Landlord-Who is to blame for athletics and academics going in a 180 degree direction? Its the presidents, AD's, TV executives, etc that want to make billions of dollars but keep the amount of money given to the athlete the same.

 

To the second point-Fans never liked the BCS. Schools may have said so publicly but they weren't bitching when the checks from playing on those games rolled in.

 

The fairness from what I can see is universities continuing to pay coaches, AD's, and even presidents more and more money every year while saying that there is nothing more to give the athlete. These kids see this and feel like they are not told the truth.

 

 

 

I agree with all of this, and I might be naive and idealistic but I have said and will continue to say that the solution is to take money away, not add more. The system is broken, it is unfair, it is hypocritical, but this just is not the way to fix it.

[sd'sker]

It's not just how you are making it sound, with a "wahh we dont' want you to change our favorite thing!" kind of whining because of personal preference. It's because athletics within the education system were founded with a certain vision and ideals that we are going in a complete 180 in direction from. It's not just that fans get off on it being a certain way, it's that fans think, beyond personal preference, that if we keep going down this path, college athletics will lose all of their integrity.

so this is where we draw the line? with paying football athletes? is there a lot of integrity left to lose?

Haha, you're kidding right? The BCS has been nothing if not controversial due to the decade and a half of coaches and officials and fans being nothing but upset about it.

people are upset with how it picked the winners or that it prevented a playoff. no one seemed too up-in-arms about the corruption or cash-grab nature of it.

Either reference football players or reference athletes - it's important that we don't equate the two, because non-football athletes are a huge part of this discussion. But regardless, college football players are making a ton of money too, compared to their peers. Why are we comparing what they make to what coaches and AD officials make? That makes no sense. You don't compare what the mail sorters in the basement make to the CEO's to cry that it's unfair - you compare what the mail sorters in the basement make compared to the mail sorters at a different company, or compared to the janitors, or compared to the receptionists, or compared to the delivery drivers.

 

Is it fair that a coach or an athletic director makes millions and a student athlete doesn't? Depends on who you ask. But even if it's unfair, then that is a problem that is running throughout our entire country, not just college sports, and if that is a problem, then let's actually treat the problem instead of treating a small microcosm of a symptom of it.

i agree that football players are different than other student athletes. and should be treated as such.

 

i did not bring up the coaches making millions as a matter of fairness compared to what the players want. it is relevant because it demonstrates how much money this product is worth.

[sd'sker]

I agree with all of this, and I might be naive and idealistic but I have said and will continue to say that the solution is to take money away, not add more. The system is broken, it is unfair, it is hypocritical, but this just is not the way to fix it.

yeah, st.paul did a much better and more concise response.

 

and, again, i do not like this direction. but i do not blame the football players.

[Landlord]

To go along with the above, the median spending per-athlete in 2010 was $92,000 per year.

 

 

The median spending per-full-time-student (non-athlete) in 2010 was $14,000.

Is that scholarship full time student or are you grouping them all together?

 

 

 

Not sure. I got this blurb from wikipedia:

 

[blockquoteAthletics are increasingly subsidized by tuition. Only one in eight of the 202 Division 1 colleges actually netted more money than they spent on athletics between the years 2005 and 2010. At the few money making schools, football and sometimes basketball sales support the school's other athletic programs. The amount spent on an athlete in one of the six highest-profile football conferences, on average, is six times more than the amount spent to educate the non-athlete. Spending per student varied from $10,012 to $19,225; cost per athlete varied from $41,796 to $163,931.[12][/blockquote]

 

And pulled those numbers from the article it references found here:

 

http://archive.floridatoday.com/usatoday/article/1837721

[Landlord]

and, again, i do not like this direction. but i do not blame the football players.

 

 

If they keep fighting for this, I do.

 

Trevor Siemian, the other Northwestern quarterback, is on record being in disagreement with what Kain and co. are trying to do, but the most interesting part is that he said they never even tried to talk to Fitzgerald or their athletic department in regards to the things they supposedly say they're fighting for. They didn't just not exhaust all of their options - they didn't exhaust any of them. They jumped straight to unionization, which means, as far as I can see, that they are jumping straight to dollar signs, which also means, as far as I can see, that the end goal here isn't to fix college athletics, it's to "f#*k bitches, get money".

[sd'sker]

and, again, i do not like this direction. but i do not blame the football players.

 

 

If they keep fighting for this, I do.

 

Trevor Siemian, the other Northwestern quarterback, is on record being in disagreement with what Kain and co. are trying to do, but the most interesting part is that he said they never even tried to talk to Fitzgerald or their athletic department in regards to the things they supposedly say they're fighting for. They didn't just not exhaust all of their options - they didn't exhaust any of them. They jumped straight to unionization, which means, as far as I can see, that they are jumping straight to dollar signs, which also means, as far as I can see, that the end goal here isn't to fix college athletics, it's to "f#*k bitches, get money".

yeah, i do not blame them for trying to do that. why would they not when everyone else involved has that very attitude? why are they demanded to be the virtuous? with all the cash-grabs involved, why do we draw a line in the sand with the football player? for pete's sake, manziel could not even make money signing his own name? there was going to be a backlash. this is it.

[StPaulHusker]

and, again, i do not like this direction. but i do not blame the football players.

 

 

If they keep fighting for this, I do.

 

Trevor Siemian, the other Northwestern quarterback, is on record being in disagreement with what Kain and co. are trying to do, but the most interesting part is that he said they never even tried to talk to Fitzgerald or their athletic department in regards to the things they supposedly say they're fighting for. They didn't just not exhaust all of their options - they didn't exhaust any of them. They jumped straight to unionization, which means, as far as I can see, that they are jumping straight to dollar signs, which also means, as far as I can see, that the end goal here isn't to fix college athletics, it's to "f#*k bitches, get money".

This is what happens when you have the wrong people doing things the wrong way for the wrong reasons. If they are allowed to unionize, it will open a Pandora's Box that won't be able to shut

[Landlord]

I guess I should clarify that I don't exclusively blame the players; I blame everyone involved that is contributing, and the NCAA more than anyone.

 

 

Not that they don't have the right to do what they want and go after what they want. But the corruption and farce and potential death of college athletics is on their hands if they do.

[sd'sker]

This is what happens when you have the wrong people doing things the wrong way for the wrong reasons. If they are allowed to unionize, it will open a Pandora's Box that won't be able to shut

my argument is that pandora's box has been opened. this is an effect, not a cause.

I guess I should clarify that I don't exclusively blame the players; I blame everyone involved that is contributing, and the NCAA more than anyone.

 

 

Not that they don't have the right to do what they want and go after what they want. But the corruption and farce and potential death of college athletics is on their hands if they do.

that is not fair. college athletics has been headed down this road a long time. i would say it started with the bcs, then mega-tv deals, then networks dedicated to conferences and teams (i mean, if you want to talk about lack of integrity, just look at the big horn network getting whored out by espn), and now this. this may be the final straw, but a lot of hands were involved (just like my wedding night. heyo!).

[StPaulHusker]

Not really. It seems that the popular argument is that if "regular" students don't receive something, then student athletes shouldn't either. My argument is that the regular student has every right to come together as a group and get more out of their time spent at a university than an athlete. One group shouldn't be based off of the other.

Really curious what kind of union & on what grounds you think 'regular students' should form.

I don't know what they could do. Then again, I had no idea there would be a ruling in favor of college athletes getting to unionize. There are smart kids out there. I am sure someone is trying to figure it out right now thanks to Kain Colter.

[sd'sker]

there is a student gov't to represent students. but students do need better representation.

[Scratchtown]

Thats not even the point. They aren't an employee. So it doesn't really matter. We shouldn't be handing out money for kids to spend recklessly. What does that teach them at probably their most important time of their lives?

There are people that would disagree with you that they are not employees. That is why this union mess is where it is at right now. It's going to come down to a judge to decide this and if they rule against it, it's not because they are worried that the players will be irresponsible with the money.

 

BUT...they are already considered employees to some because the university pays them through scholarship. The one way that the NCAA and Universities could and SHOULD combat this is threatening taking away scholarships completely. Then what? Kids still have to go to school to get a decent job. Its not like the universities really need athletics. Seriously.

 

Don't tell me that the revenue from football is used for anything other than improving facilities and amenities for athletes. You take that all away and the university will become what it was originally instituted for. Academia.

[Scratchtown]

Mariota on the subject: He specifically talks about how the scholarships FULFILL what the athletes need. Like someone said earlier. Someone is lying and its obviously not the people that state the scholarships are plenty. Greed people, Greed. Think about it.

 

http://www.csnnw.com/ducks/mariotas-opinion-ncaa-player-unionization