Recruiting a great quarterback

[Kernal]

I'm not sure trying to land a heisman candidate-type QB (a Manziel, Young, Wilson, Newton, etc.,.) is a very practical strategy around which to base an offense. If the Nebraska offense is going to require that caliber of player at QB then we need to recalibrate our expectations, because getting one is going to be very unlikely.

 

There's a reason all teams aren't trying to be "multiple." It's not because the coaches aren't smart enough to draw up plays and schemes; it's because you need players to execute those plays. I'm all for rushing and passing for 300 each per game. It's just not ever going to happen consistently.

 

Nebraska needs to pick an offense that they can recruit players to execute, and then perfect it.

 

I don't put any stock in producing NFL qbs. That has never been NU's offense, and it's still not NU's offense.

[Kernal]

 

 

 

The coaches have said at his best Stanton is as good a QB as Nebraska has. The problem is his inconsistency. Without watching practice, it's hard to argue, and I see no reason why they would say this if it weren't true.

Link or reference please?

It was in fall camp I think. Look it up. I believe it was Pelini himself. Honestly though, I read and hear so much stuff I couldn't begin to track it down any easier than you.

I recall hearing/reading the same thing. Bo was pretty blunt about the QB competition and dropped that line. Some plays he'll look like a first string QB, others he'll look like a 3rd string.

 

 

Exactly.

[JTrain]

How many QB's won a NC while in college and then went on to become starters in the NFL since 2000? I'm not talking about getting drafted into the NFL. I'm talking about actually contributing in the NFL. Scam Newton is about the only one that comes to mind. Vince Young started some games, but where is he now? The college game is considerably different than the NFL. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm a lot more interested in winning NC's than I am how our QB's do in the NFL.

 

Well, I don't believe anyone claimed you need a future NFL superstar at the helm to win titles.

 

Let's make the safe assumption that Winston will start an NFL game in the future. Then, of the 12 QBs to win national titles in that time frame, 9 will have started at least one NFL game, 1 played in the NFL but did not start, and two did not appear in the NFL.

 

So it's definitely safe to say that having a quarterback with an arm at least good enough to see the field on Sunday is an important part of building a champion in today's environment. Especially if you aren't stacked across the board with top recruits. The two that didn't play in the NFL were AJ McCarron and Josh Heupel, both of whom were surrounded with incredible talent from top five recruiting classes.

[JTrain]

Eric Crouch was drafted in the NFL in 2001-2002, but as a safety. It is the style of offense that dictates what we recruit.

 

We don't run that offense anymore. Nor do we have a world-class offensive line or a strength and conditioning program that's miles ahead of the competition. We might compete for the Big 10 with a 50% passer, but we aren't playing in any national title games.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Because of our offense, Nebraska does net get good pro-style QBs. We look at athletic QBs who can run & throw in HS. Many of these players get recruited to play other positions. If we do get a pro-style QB, they are raw.

 

Eric Crouch was drafted in the NFL in 2001-2002, but as a safety. It is the style of offense that dictates what we recruit.

 

We don't run that offense anymore. Nor do we have a world-class offensive line or a strength and conditioning program that's miles ahead of the competition. We might compete for the Big 10 with a 50% passer, but we aren't playing in any national title games.

 

Because everyone has that now.

[JTrain]

 

I think the bigger or better question is, why arent we developing quarterbacks into NFL players. I would love to have a top 10 recruiting class, I cannot remember which game I was watching, was some top 25 team whos head QB was a 2 star recruit.

 

I guess it is the age old question of the chicken or the egg.

 

Is it the recruiting or the coaches? Why do other teams seem to make coal into diamonds, and we still end up with coal?

 

 

I would question whether most of the players on that list were really developed by their college coaches. Many of them may have just been diamonds in the rough or late bloomers. Of course I don't know for sure, but I kind of doubt the QB coaches at Delaware, EIU, UC-Davis, etc. were brilliant player developers.

[Hedley Lamarr]

So in terms of developing a qb, we're supposed to have TA developed fully already, regardless that he's a sophomore.

This is year 3 for TA. He shows all the deficiencies TM showed in reading progressions.

[Guy Chamberlin]

Tommy Armstrong 47% completion rate.

 

Conner Cook 38% completion rate..

 

Yeah, I guess we're supposed to covet having a Conner Cook kinda quarterback, but I'm not sure you fail on 18 of 29 passes unless you're doing something worse than Tommy Armstrong.

 

As a seasoned veteran. With better protection.

[The Dude]

I remember in high school basketball practice, we used to have to hit 100 free throws before we could leave. Why not do something similar with Tommy and those short passes he struggles with? Just spit-balling.

[True2tRA]

Why is it that when a dual threat QB kills us with their legs, we constantly get people saying, "we need to commit to a dual threat QB running game and stick with it. We are a running team and we need to commit to that. That is our identity"

 

When we get beat by a pocket passer we get people saying, "Why can't we recruit a true pocket passer that can pass the ball"....but yet when we do pass, we hear, "We have no identity."

I definitely see what you're saying with this. There's a lot of that around. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it seems nearly impossible to please this fan base. This is just another example.

 

Personally if I'm the coach, I recruit a passer first. To me, that's what QB is. A guy that can make the reads and make the throws. I've always viewed running ability as secondary and just a bonus skill to some good throwers.

 

Truthfully I think Tommy is a better runner than thrower, but I believe he's a above average at both. Something Nebraska really has not had a lot. I expect Tommy to be a great dual threat QB someday. That is if he ever decides to actually keep it on some of those zone reads..........

[JTrain]

I remember in high school basketball practice, we used to have to hit 100 free throws before we could leave. Why not do something similar with Tommy and those short passes he struggles with? Just spit-balling.

 

Because we would break every time-related NCAA bylaw in the book.

[Danny Bateman]

Many teams would love to have that type of talent at qb. That talent is hard to find, and maybe even harder to develop.

 

Development is key and our current and previous qb's were and are being coached by a grad assistant.

 

So, you're a blue chup qb with these attributes and plenty of schools want you--one touts a qb coach who has sent x-number of guys into the nfl. The other touts a feel-good Rudy story qb grad assistant coach.

 

There's why.

 

 

For a guy with less than 200 total posts, this guy gets it.

 

 

I think people need to reel back the Stanton hype a bit. I think most of it came from the Elite 11 camp he did so well in. But there's only so much you can learn from no-pad drills. I only watched one of his high school games and he threw 3 INTs. He looked very, very raw as a passer. There's probably a good reason he sits at #3 behind a walk-on.

So in terms of developing a qb, we're supposed to have TA developed fully already, regardless that he's a sophomore.

 

 

These two illustrate the point that secretasian already pointed out above. What we're doing with our QBs (and what we've been doing for a while... since Bo got here) is recruiting sufficiently talented guys and then stubbornly refusing to develop them. It's akin to buying paying for HD through your cable provider and then refusing to upgrade to a TV that is actually HD capable.

I do not think that Tommy is a bad quarterback. He is an unpolished thrower, but I believe farther ahead than TMart was at this point in his career. He's definitely a runner first- the offense Beck wants to run absolutely demands a QB with some level of mobility. Even Fyfe has a bit of wiggle. The QB run game is a HUGE part of opening up opportunities for the RBs and through the air-- don't underrate that.

 

That is why plugging a stud pocket passing QB like Cook would be an awkward fit for Tim Beck's system. It would be very similar to 2009 when ZLee was the QB. He didn't have the wheels for Beck's offense so those zone read keepers looked extremely awkward and slow. He eventually adapted and learned he couldn't call as many of those as he'd like.

With Cook, I think zone read goes out the window and I'm not sure that our running game doesn't actually regress if our OL is really as overrated as it appeared to be Saturday. The read gets us a lot of yards because it demands a lot of discipline from the defense and we can exploit their choices as to who to cover.

 

But I digress-- TMart made a big jump in 2009 when he finally started working with Calhoun to overhaul his mechanics-- which sadly, he had to seek out ON HIS OWN-- and it showed on the field. He was a MUCH more proficient passer those last two years.

 

Why can't we see that type of improvement with TA?? He's already a more naturally gifted passer and needs less improvement.

 

 

Because of our offense, Nebraska does net get good pro-style QBs. We look at athletic QBs who can run & throw in HS. Many of these players get recruited to play other positions. If we do get a pro-style QB, they are raw.

 

Eric Crouch was drafted in the NFL in 2001-2002, but as a safety. It is the style of offense that dictates what we recruit.

I'm not sure trying to land a heisman candidate-type QB (a Manziel, Young, Wilson, Newton, etc.,.) is a very practical strategy around which to base an offense. If the Nebraska offense is going to require that caliber of player at QB then we need to recalibrate our expectations, because getting one is going to be very unlikely.

 

There's a reason all teams aren't trying to be "multiple." It's not because the coaches aren't smart enough to draw up plays and schemes; it's because you need players to execute those plays. I'm all for rushing and passing for 300 each per game. It's just not ever going to happen consistently.

 

Nebraska needs to pick an offense that they can recruit players to execute, and then perfect it.

 

I don't put any stock in producing NFL qbs. That has never been NU's offense, and it's still not NU's offense.

 

 

I believe Beck is trying to do this. He's recruiting QBs that are a good fit for his offense. They have to be a dual-threat to give us a threat both on the ground and through the air. Sure, we haven't had a super proficient passer since Ganz, but it's clear Beck prefers a QB who is DEFINITELY gifted with his legs and GOOD ENOUGH through the air.

 

Spano. TMart. Cody Green. Carnes. Turner. TA. Stanton. Bush. Darlington. Dillman.

 

Those are the guys we've recruited at QB since Beck has had the reigns. It's clear what he values-- all very gifted with their legs, with POTENTIAL as a passer. Most of them have experience running a spread offense in high school. Some have better ability at passing than others, some are quite raw. In my opinion, a handful of those players had or have the raw tools to develop into a serviceable if not proficient passer. Some did not and the benefit to recruiting dual threats is you can shift them to other positions if QB doesn't work out.

 

But it absolutely boggles the mind why we have not brought a full-time QB coach in yet. None of those players seemed to have reached their ceiling as a passer while at NU.

 

I don't know if it's arrogance on the staff's part or aversion to breaking up the old boys club-- but one thing is very clear: If Tim Beck is going to continue to be this teams OC, a QB coach is an absolute necessity.

 

So, to answer Hammerhead, I believe it's the case that Beck does not want to recruit very gifted pocket passing QBs because a huge part of his offense is the QB run game.

 

I think we have QBs now that are great fits for this system. For whatever reason, we're not refining them.

[Redshirt]

We dont seem to develop our QBs all that well. If i remember, Martinez's biggest leap was when he was visiting Calhoun (QB trainer). Not sure if Beck needs to be more involved or maybe Ganz needs to be . Either way, we havent been excellent in QB development.

 

We need to move Brown to the QB coach, he seems to excel at developing players. I thought we had great TE's, McNeil and Reed, when he was their position coach The RB's have been stellar under Brown; Helu, Burkehead and now Ameer. Brown may not be a great X and O guy, but that man has a history of developing and motivating his players.

[Hedley Lamarr]

We dont seem to develop our QBs all that well. If i remember, Martinez's biggest leap was when he was visiting Calhoun (QB trainer). Not sure if Beck needs to be more involved or maybe Ganz needs to be . Either way, we havent been excellent in QB development.

 

We need to move Brown to the QB coach, he seems to excel at developing players. I thought we had great TE's, McNeil and Reed, when he was their position coach The RB's have been stellar under Brown; Helu, Burkehead and now Ameer. Brown may not be a great X and O guy, but that man has a history of developing and motivating his players.

Or can Barney Cotton and actually hire a QB coach

[Danny Bateman]

 

We dont seem to develop our QBs all that well. If i remember, Martinez's biggest leap was when he was visiting Calhoun (QB trainer). Not sure if Beck needs to be more involved or maybe Ganz needs to be . Either way, we havent been excellent in QB development.

 

We need to move Brown to the QB coach, he seems to excel at developing players. I thought we had great TE's, McNeil and Reed, when he was their position coach The RB's have been stellar under Brown; Helu, Burkehead and now Ameer. Brown may not be a great X and O guy, but that man has a history of developing and motivating his players.

Or can Barney Cotton and actually hire a QB coach

 

Never thought it'd happen, but it just did: +1'd Hedley.

 

The guy we need is not on the staff right now.