Banker Defensive Philosophy

[BigRedBuster]

 

Bend but don't break, what a pathetic way to play defense.

It's working out pretty well for Oregon.

I would like to point out that it's working at Oregon in part because their offense scores so many points. It's not that big of deal if the opponent scores field goals with an occasional TD.

 

Once the Ducks get up a few TDs this defensive philosophy works even better when offenses are having to take risks to catch up.

[NUinID]

After watching more college football this year than I have most years and almost every bowl game, I'm convinced that nobody in college football plays defense anymore. So with that in mind lets get the offense wired right and take our chances on D.

 

 

It's not that nobody plays defense anymore, but the definition of great defense has change a lot from 1995. You are not going to see a team just completely shut down a good offensive team anymore. Holding a team to 300-350 on offense is considered a pretty solid defense now a days. I mean look at Alabama, they are considered a great defensive team and they have still gave up big chunks of yardage all year to teams.

[NUinID]

 

 

Bend but don't break, what a pathetic way to play defense.

It's working out pretty well for Oregon.

I would like to point out that it's working at Oregon in part because their offense scores so many points. It's not that big of deal if the opponent scores field goals with an occasional TD.

 

Once the Ducks get up a few TDs this defensive philosophy works even better when offenses are having to take risks to catch up.

 

Bend don't break is not a bad philosophy, but Pelini was back words in the way he did it. You still should want to stop the run first. BP would never commit to stopping the run even when he was playing a run oriented team like Wisconsin or Minnesota.

 

Watch the game those two played against each other. They literally had all 11 guys with 8 yards of the LOS unless it was a sure passing down.

 

BP wanted to do it with 6 in the box and a safety coming from 15 yards off. In theory it will work if everything goes perfect, but it doesn't leave any room for error.

[BIGREDFAN_in_OMAHA]

Pelini showed that he could have an aggressive defense under Solich since that's what Frank wanted. Why Pelini refused to have that was another of the mysteries of that regime.

[RedRedJarvisRedwine]

 

 

 

Samuel McKewon @swmckewonOWH[/size] · 1h1 hour agoBanker's 4-3 D is very similar to Michigan State. The difference? "The Jimmies and Joes they were working with and we were working with."

 

I like this idea. It seems that some of the key players in MSU's defense are the safeties. I think Gerry and Alexander position us well to handle that stress.

I actually thought Gerrys over aggression got him burned too many times this year.

So he's no good and shouldn't start?

yeah cause that's exactly what I said.

[Count 'Bility]

 

 

 

Oregon doesnt play "bend dont break". That is a downhill, aggressive, fast defense. There are very few teams as physical as they are on the edges too. Even when they gave up stuff, you payed for it from a physical standpoint.

 

 

Are you kidding me? I think I know Oregon schemes pretty well.. Oregon stunts their front four a lot, occasionally dropping DE's such as Armstead into a zone. bringing pressure from other angles, but its almost always 3/8 or 4/7 looks from them. They very rarely bring pressure outside of the red zone.

 

The idea that a bend don't break defense can't be physical or fast is incorrect. You can still fly to the football and rip it away (which is what the Ducks do, gang tackle, don't miss tackles, first guy wraps out, rest go for the ball. This is why they are one of the highest TO margin teams in the nation.

 

Finally, I'll let you argue with the Oregon DC, Don Pellum, who said they are still keeping Aliotti principles, the bend but don't break idea, fine with giving up yards, but will be more aggressive in passing down situations. just not points - something Chip Kelly constantly stated as well. Here are a couple articles from Eugene/Oregon about the "bend but don't break" philosophy that you say we don't run.

 

http://registerguard.com/rg/sports/32366310-81/not-this-time-no.-5-oregon-routs-stanford.csp# - "Erick Dargan intercepted Kevin Hogan at the Oregon 1-yard line and later forced the Stanford quarterback to fumble to highlight another bend-but-don’t-break effort by Don Pellum’s defense."

 

http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/245503-112460-oregon-defense-has-stated-its-case- - "As the saying at UO goes, the Ducks will give up yards all day, as long as they win."

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2015/01/10_reasons_why_oregon_ducks_co.html#0 - reason 3 or 4

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2015/01/breaking_down_the_national_cha_3.html - "The one thing the Ducks don't allow, though, is a ton of points. Bend but don't break is their specialty. "

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/national-championship-preview--oregon-s-secondary-210110821.html - "Oregon will bend and bend, but the Ducks won't break. Take the Rose Bowl, when Oregon gave up 528 yards of offense to Florida State but allowed just 20 points"

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2015/01/09/oregon-ohio-state-college-football-playoff-national-championship-att-stadium/21480097/ But what has remained the same — from the first day of the preseason until the final practice before the championship game — are the philosophies. Oregon still wants to go fast. Ohio State still wants to control the tempo. The Ducks will bend but not break on defense. The Buckeyes would rather not bend at all.

 

 

All different sources - but yeah, we don't play bend but don't break, right?

 

 

Well, by that i guess every defense is bend dont break then. It's hard and nearly impossible to just be a straight up shut down, 3 and out defense anymore. Bend dont break in this day and age to me is just what we've been doing here for the past few years. While Oregon may be so in a schematic way of thinking, to me, it's just more than that. it's not all X's and O's. it's a mentality. Aggression. They play with aggression. Even in passive schemes. WE havent been doing that. We've been playing tentative, waiting for the offense to dictate and then try to react. I see Oregon just doing what it does-even if it is a contain and sit back style-in a fast, aggressive, downhill style. it's a pretty widely used philosophy by a lot of defenses I guess. You got into schematics. I guess I was just talking from more of a phsychological standpoint.

 

 

I would say there are true aggressive defenses still, for instance, schools like ASU, TCU, UW, UCLA blitz FREQUENTLY, trying to put the heat on you, forcing quick 3 and outs. Oregon and other true "bend but don't break" want you to go on increased play drives so they can try and force a turnover. They are completely okay with giving up field goals because they know their offense will put up TDs. I'd consider those previous teams as an "aggressive" defense that is "NOT" bend but don't break. ASU blitzed on like 70% of plays or something insane like that. Dropping everyone into coverage (which is actually the sign of a strong DL) is bend but don't break. 2 high safeties ALL the time is bend but don't break. That's what Oregon does. Yards, not points. Not a lot of teams TRULY do this because they can't rely purely on their offense to get TDs and they don't have the DL/LB play to stuff the run while consistently dropping 7 or 8 in pass coverage. Oregon is very aggressive in their scheme (not playing patty cake, flying to the pall, press corners, force TO's at all costs) but their scheme is not an aggressive one (lack of blitzes, pressures, high safeties all the time)

 

I do, however, agree with you that Bo Pelini's bend-but-don't break was garbage mentally compared to Oregon's, though. Oregon doesn't wait for the team to come at them. They react as quickly as possible and FLY to the ball once the play is diagnosed, wrap & rip

 

We got it now. You make great points about the schematics. No disagreement on that stuff at all. Like I said, from the beginning, it was about mentality to me. And when I think bend dont break, to me it means soft and tentative. Like we've been. Oregon doesnt play soft and tentative. They play fast and tenacious, within bend dont break scheme.

 

I'm gonna go uncross my eyes now.

[Count 'Bility]

Pelini showed that he could have an aggressive defense under Solich since that's what Frank wanted. Why Pelini refused to have that was another of the mysteries of that regime.

Pelini seemed to get caught up in his masterful scheme used in the Big 12 days, when there was no qb run game to worry about, and very little run game period. We played offenses who slung it around 50 times a game. we could line up 4 down, tee off, and sit 7 in coverage, after hours of film study, and know each team's every tendancy, route concept, check, and skillset. Theres so many instances in 2009 and 2010 where it's clearly obvious that each and every one of our 7 db's/backers knew what routes were coming before the snap. This made our matchup coverage like a blanket. And it wasnt bend dont break, it was shut down.

 

Then the big ten came along and from team to team there was variety of different systems. There was spread with qb run. there was convential with power. Mobile qb's. Running qb's. New teams to get acclimated too. And for whatever reason, it seemed like the adjustment was never made.

 

there was a tidbit about Dave Arranda (Wisconsin DC) in a think it was during the Wisconsin game about his defensive philosophy coming from the Pac12 when he was asked about transitioning to the BigTen and he was quoted as saying "you have to get a safety down the the line, and you gotta get 8-9 in the box and stop the run first and foremost. Nothing else matters if you cant stop the run" or something along those lines. This was a tenured Pac12 guy that used 3 man rush to defend wide open spreads that knew what had to be done without coaching a down in the Big10. So I'm just mind boggled by the overall lack of adjustment by our staff in 4 seasons in the new conference.

[BIGREDFAN_in_OMAHA]

 

Pelini showed that he could have an aggressive defense under Solich since that's what Frank wanted. Why Pelini refused to have that was another of the mysteries of that regime.

Pelini seemed to get caught up in his masterful scheme used in the Big 12 days, when there was no qb run game to worry about, and very little run game period. We played offenses who slung it around 50 times a game. we could line up 4 down, tee off, and sit 7 in coverage, after hours of film study, and know each team's every tendancy, route concept, check, and skillset. Theres so many instances in 2009 and 2010 where it's clearly obvious that each and every one of our 7 db's/backers knew what routes were coming before the snap. This made our matchup coverage like a blanket. And it wasnt bend dont break, it was shut down.

 

Then the big ten came along and from team to team there was variety of different systems. There was spread with qb run. there was convential with power. Mobile qb's. Running qb's. New teams to get acclimated too. And for whatever reason, it seemed like the adjustment was never made.

 

there was a tidbit about Dave Arranda (Wisconsin DC) in a think it was during the Wisconsin game about his defensive philosophy coming from the Pac12 when he was asked about transitioning to the BigTen and he was quoted as saying "you have to get a safety down the the line, and you gotta get 8-9 in the box and stop the run first and foremost. Nothing else matters if you cant stop the run" or something along those lines. This was a tenured Pac12 guy that used 3 man rush to defend wide open spreads that knew what had to be done without coaching a down in the Big10. So I'm just mind boggled by the overall lack of adjustment by our staff in 4 seasons in the new conference.

 

amen

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

Bend but don't break, what a pathetic way to play defense.

It's working out pretty well for Oregon.

I would like to point out that it's working at Oregon in part because their offense scores so many points. It's not that big of deal if the opponent scores field goals with an occasional TD.

 

Once the Ducks get up a few TDs this defensive philosophy works even better when offenses are having to take risks to catch up.

 

Bend don't break is not a bad philosophy, but Pelini was back words in the way he did it. You still should want to stop the run first. BP would never commit to stopping the run even when he was playing a run oriented team like Wisconsin or Minnesota.

 

Watch the game those two played against each other. They literally had all 11 guys with 8 yards of the LOS unless it was a sure passing down.

 

BP wanted to do it with 6 in the box and a safety coming from 15 yards off. In theory it will work if everything goes perfect, but it doesn't leave any room for error.

 

I agree with you.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Pelini showed that he could have an aggressive defense under Solich since that's what Frank wanted. Why Pelini refused to have that was another of the mysteries of that regime.

Pelini seemed to get caught up in his masterful scheme used in the Big 12 days, when there was no qb run game to worry about, and very little run game period. We played offenses who slung it around 50 times a game. we could line up 4 down, tee off, and sit 7 in coverage, after hours of film study, and know each team's every tendancy, route concept, check, and skillset. Theres so many instances in 2009 and 2010 where it's clearly obvious that each and every one of our 7 db's/backers knew what routes were coming before the snap. This made our matchup coverage like a blanket. And it wasnt bend dont break, it was shut down.

 

Then the big ten came along and from team to team there was variety of different systems. There was spread with qb run. there was convential with power. Mobile qb's. Running qb's. New teams to get acclimated too. And for whatever reason, it seemed like the adjustment was never made.

 

there was a tidbit about Dave Arranda (Wisconsin DC) in a think it was during the Wisconsin game about his defensive philosophy coming from the Pac12 when he was asked about transitioning to the BigTen and he was quoted as saying "you have to get a safety down the the line, and you gotta get 8-9 in the box and stop the run first and foremost. Nothing else matters if you cant stop the run" or something along those lines. This was a tenured Pac12 guy that used 3 man rush to defend wide open spreads that knew what had to be done without coaching a down in the Big10. So I'm just mind boggled by the overall lack of adjustment by our staff in 4 seasons in the new conference.

 

Exactly.

 

I have never understood why someone on the staff couldn't see that you needed to stop the run in the Big Ten.

[MasterPulverizer]

 

Pelini showed that he could have an aggressive defense under Solich since that's what Frank wanted. Why Pelini refused to have that was another of the mysteries of that regime.

Pelini seemed to get caught up in his masterful scheme used in the Big 12 days, when there was no qb run game to worry about, and very little run game period. We played offenses who slung it around 50 times a game. we could line up 4 down, tee off, and sit 7 in coverage, after hours of film study, and know each team's every tendancy, route concept, check, and skillset. Theres so many instances in 2009 and 2010 where it's clearly obvious that each and every one of our 7 db's/backers knew what routes were coming before the snap. This made our matchup coverage like a blanket. And it wasnt bend dont break, it was shut down.

 

Then the big ten came along and from team to team there was variety of different systems. There was spread with qb run. there was convential with power. Mobile qb's. Running qb's. New teams to get acclimated too. And for whatever reason, it seemed like the adjustment was never made.

 

there was a tidbit about Dave Arranda (Wisconsin DC) in a think it was during the Wisconsin game about his defensive philosophy coming from the Pac12 when he was asked about transitioning to the BigTen and he was quoted as saying "you have to get a safety down the the line, and you gotta get 8-9 in the box and stop the run first and foremost. Nothing else matters if you cant stop the run" or something along those lines. This was a tenured Pac12 guy that used 3 man rush to defend wide open spreads that knew what had to be done without coaching a down in the Big10. So I'm just mind boggled by the overall lack of adjustment by our staff in 4 seasons in the new conference.

 

Troof. This was evident in our first year in the B1G.

 

The only thing I would add to this analysis is that overall adaptation seemed difficult. Case and point: UCLA. Twice.

 

It all steamrolled from their inability to adapt, the defense looked like garbage, Bo melted down on the sidelines, the mental aspect of the team crumbled, and here we are.

[knapplc]

Here's where I'm hopeful with Banker's defensive philosophy. The last few years, these are the defensive ranks for Banker & for Bo:


2010
NU - 63rd
OSU - 89th

 

2011
NU - 64th
OSU - 101st

 

2012
NU - 90th
OSU - 27th

 

2013
NU - 56th
OSU - 98th

 

2014
NU - 78th
OSU - 52nd

 

 

Bit of a mixed bag. Oregon State was better than Nebraska a couple of years, worse a couple of years.

 

But those were with the "Jimmies & Joes" available in Corvallis. Banker's scheme should work better at Nebraska based on the upgrade in personnel alone. This Husker team has more individual talent than any defense Banker had at Oregon State.

 

 

A guarantee? Hardly. But there's reason to hope.

[Mavric]

 

Pelini showed that he could have an aggressive defense under Solich since that's what Frank wanted. Why Pelini refused to have that was another of the mysteries of that regime.

Pelini seemed to get caught up in his masterful scheme used in the Big 12 days, when there was no qb run game to worry about, and very little run game period. We played offenses who slung it around 50 times a game. we could line up 4 down, tee off, and sit 7 in coverage, after hours of film study, and know each team's every tendancy, route concept, check, and skillset. Theres so many instances in 2009 and 2010 where it's clearly obvious that each and every one of our 7 db's/backers knew what routes were coming before the snap. This made our matchup coverage like a blanket. And it wasnt bend dont break, it was shut down.

 

Then the big ten came along and from team to team there was variety of different systems. There was spread with qb run. there was convential with power. Mobile qb's. Running qb's. New teams to get acclimated too. And for whatever reason, it seemed like the adjustment was never made.

 

there was a tidbit about Dave Arranda (Wisconsin DC) in a think it was during the Wisconsin game about his defensive philosophy coming from the Pac12 when he was asked about transitioning to the BigTen and he was quoted as saying "you have to get a safety down the the line, and you gotta get 8-9 in the box and stop the run first and foremost. Nothing else matters if you cant stop the run" or something along those lines. This was a tenured Pac12 guy that used 3 man rush to defend wide open spreads that knew what had to be done without coaching a down in the Big10. So I'm just mind boggled by the overall lack of adjustment by our staff in 4 seasons in the new conference.

 

 

This is pretty much what I think as well. We didn't have to defend the run in the Big XII because not only were teams not good at running the ball, they didn't even try to run the ball (for the most part). Plus, you have a once-in-a-generation DT with enough quality around him to make that work.

 

The other issue is everything was exactly dictated by how the offense lines up. Somehow between the first Wisconsin game in 2012 and the CCG, Wiscy figured out the Enigma and knows how to get us to line up in such a way that it makes their blocking so much easier. Other teams would hit on it now and then (probably by accident) but they had the key to be able to repeat it. It's not like people were gashing us every play (except Wisconsin). But too often they'd get the right call and there was simply no one there to even attempt to make the tackle.

[hskrNmo]

After watching more college football this year than I have most years and almost every bowl game, I'm convinced that nobody in college football plays defense anymore. So with that in mind lets get the offense wired right and take our chances on D.

This is how I feel!

[Hunter94]

 

 

Pelini showed that he could have an aggressive defense under Solich since that's what Frank wanted. Why Pelini refused to have that was another of the mysteries of that regime.

Pelini seemed to get caught up in his masterful scheme used in the Big 12 days, when there was no qb run game to worry about, and very little run game period. We played offenses who slung it around 50 times a game. we could line up 4 down, tee off, and sit 7 in coverage, after hours of film study, and know each team's every tendancy, route concept, check, and skillset. Theres so many instances in 2009 and 2010 where it's clearly obvious that each and every one of our 7 db's/backers knew what routes were coming before the snap. This made our matchup coverage like a blanket. And it wasnt bend dont break, it was shut down.

 

Then the big ten came along and from team to team there was variety of different systems. There was spread with qb run. there was convential with power. Mobile qb's. Running qb's. New teams to get acclimated too. And for whatever reason, it seemed like the adjustment was never made.

 

there was a tidbit about Dave Arranda (Wisconsin DC) in a think it was during the Wisconsin game about his defensive philosophy coming from the Pac12 when he was asked about transitioning to the BigTen and he was quoted as saying "you have to get a safety down the the line, and you gotta get 8-9 in the box and stop the run first and foremost. Nothing else matters if you cant stop the run" or something along those lines. This was a tenured Pac12 guy that used 3 man rush to defend wide open spreads that knew what had to be done without coaching a down in the Big10. So I'm just mind boggled by the overall lack of adjustment by our staff in 4 seasons in the new conference.

 

 

This is pretty much what I think as well. We didn't have to defend the run in the Big XII because not only were teams not good at running the ball, they didn't even try to run the ball (for the most part). Plus, you have a once-in-a-generation DT with enough quality around him to make that work.

 

The other issue is everything was exactly dictated by how the offense lines up. Somehow between the first Wisconsin game in 2012 and the CCG, Wiscy figured out the Enigma and knows how to get us to line up in such a way that it makes their blocking so much easier. Other teams would hit on it now and then (probably by accident) but they had the key to be able to repeat it. It's not like people were gashing us every play (except Wisconsin). But too often they'd get the right call and there was simply no one there to even attempt to make the tackle.

 

amazing Pelini never picked up on this....