Rand Paul is a douchebag

[knapplc]

Just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's logical, or has any basis in reality. Lots of people do stupid things. Even some pretty smart people.

[True2tRA]

Just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's logical, or has any basis in reality. Lots of people do stupid things. Even some pretty smart people.

We agree. Yet it happens. As I said, these peoples fear is coming from somewhere. Should we just not allow them to make the choice anymore? Is that the answer in your opinion? As you said, a lot of people do a lot of dumb crap. Things that put all of us in danger on a daily basis. What do we do about the rest of those things? We still allow people to drink and they can still choose to drive. There's far more people that have been effected by those consequences than have been by the choice not to vaccinate.

[knapplc]

We're getting into 'two wrongs don't make a right' territory.

 

There is no good argument against vaccinations. That's the end of it.

[True2tRA]

We're getting into 'two wrongs don't make a right' territory.

 

There is no good argument against vaccinations. That's the end of it.

 

Yes sir. Sorry boss......

 

Don't ban me.

 

(I keed, I keed....jk)

[Danny Bateman]

Dang. I can tell True is pretty fired up about this particular issue. Perhaps because it's such a short walk from discussing vaccination risks to parental decision making and responsibility. I get the feeling the latter is what you're more vested in.

 

Anyway, if there's confusion and Rand Paul DOES have some questions regarding science, he could always ask his buddy in charge of science, that Ted Cruz fella...

[TGHusker]

 

Anyway, if there's confusion and Rand Paul DOES have some questions regarding science, he could always ask his buddy in charge of science, that Ted Cruz fella...

Now that is funny Or maybe not so much when you think deeper about it

[knapplc]

Dang. I can tell True is pretty fired up about this particular issue. Perhaps because it's such a short walk from discussing vaccination risks to parental decision making and responsibility. I get the feeling the latter is what you're more vested in.

 

Anyway, if there's confusion and Rand Paul DOES have some questions regarding science, he could always ask his buddy in charge of science, that Ted Cruz fella...

 

And I do get that. There's no manual. Nobody sits you down & gives you step-by-step instructions on what to do so you don't utterly screw up a person's entire life. You're winging it, and it's scary as hell sometimes making those decisions. I can see the anti-vaxxers point of view. I just 100% disagree with it.

[True2tRA]

Dang. I can tell True is pretty fired up about this particular issue. Perhaps because it's such a short walk from discussing vaccination risks to parental decision making and responsibility. I get the feeling the latter is what you're more vested in.

 

Anyway, if there's confusion and Rand Paul DOES have some questions regarding science, he could always ask his buddy in charge of science, that Ted Cruz fella...

Yea. Like I said, I vaccinated my own two kids so my stance is pretty clear. Just trying to see all sides of it.

[DaveH]

 

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Link because it's NSFW.

 

 

We solve this problem by using logic & reason. Logic tells us there's no evidence that vaccinations cause autism, or any other, similar disease. Logic tells us that kids used to die in FAR greater numbers prior to the era of modern vaccination.

 

Yet people aren't doing it? Why?

 

Great question.

 

IMO, one reason could be some people are always on the look out for a reason why bad things happen.

 

They want to know why their children develop autism. Why my nephew is diabetic.

 

They want something to blame to make it easier on them. That way, they can feed their anger into a cause of some sort.

 

When the truth may be that we just don't know.

 

Now, the best way we know how to go from not knowing to knowing with some degree of certainty is science and it's practices. We've been using it for centuries with pretty good success.

 

You couple wanting to know the reason with the fear of screwing up your kids and you have a compelling case for for some parents not to vaccinate.

 

IMO, what they need to be looking at is potentially bigger effect on the spread of disease throughout the US and\or World versus the chance that someday your kid might develop a disorder. Never mind the fact that we have no reason to believe that one causes the other.

 

The spread of disease is something that's pretty certain to happen if the level of un-vaccinated people goes up over time.

 

We've been there. That's how we got here. It was bad, we came up with a pretty effective way to stop these diseases and it actually does work. That's how we rid the world of smallpox, the only disease to be eradicated.

 

What doesn't work is not vaccinating your kids in the hopes that they won't develop some sort of disorder.

[ColoNoCoHusker]

 

Just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's logical, or has any basis in reality. Lots of people do stupid things. Even some pretty smart people.

We agree. Yet it happens. As I said, these peoples fear is coming from somewhere. Should we just not allow them to make the choice anymore? Is that the answer in your opinion? As you said, a lot of people do a lot of dumb crap. Things that put all of us in danger on a daily basis. What do we do about the rest of those things? We still allow people to drink and they can still choose to drive. There's far more people that have been effected by those consequences than have been by the choice not to vaccinate.

 

 

As soon as autism was separated from schizophrenia in the 1960s, professional research into causes went through the roof. Every decade since has pretty much had a medical study linking autism & vaccines proven to be wholly fraudulent (case in the 1980s) or wholly discredited. The first real research was a medical professional interpreting correlation with causation. It was basically, vaccines have increased just as autism diagnosis have; must be causal.

 

This notion persists due to irresponsible & fraudulent research that gets published & persists in medical libraries or medical professionals that don't constantly keep up with the research. With the internet, it's only gonna get worse since debunking has no effect on wrong information.

 

Mumps, measles, whooping cough, TB are all on the rise in Colorado. Anti-vaxxers viewpoint was fine when unvaccinated people represented minute percentages and could benefit from the herd immunity. Now that unvaccinated people are becoming concentrated in specific areas, it doesn't help so much. The reason for the vaccines is these diseases spread quickly & cannot be reliably treated post-infection.

 

If not providing adequate nutrition to a child or bathing them regularly is child abuse, not vaccinating definitely is as well.

[RedSavage]

This is a very well written article by someone who wasn't vaccinated as a child. Pretty much sums it all up for me:

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2014/01/growing_up_unvaccinated_a_healthy_lifestyle_couldn_t_prevent_many_childhood.html

[Junior]

 

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Link because it's NSFW.

 

 

We solve this problem by using logic & reason. Logic tells us there's no evidence that vaccinations cause autism, or any other, similar disease. Logic tells us that kids used to die in FAR greater numbers prior to the era of modern vaccination.

 

Yet people aren't doing it? Why?

 

 

 

Because some junk science came out in the early 2000s (that has later been thoroughly discredited), and some celebrities picked up on it. And too many Americans would rather believe a celebrity than a scientist for some reason. That's it.

 

Some people drive drunk, drive without their seatbelts on, refuse to use a proper carseat for their kids, etc etc. It's all still against the law.

[Junior]

 

 

Part of this has been fostered by the right's general distrust of science. The "They have a financial interest in it!" nonsense that we see in global warming is the same BS you see from some anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists. Also, no more with the phrase "anti-vaxxer" They are quite clearly "pro-disease".

[True2tRA]

 

 

.

 

 

Link because it's NSFW.

 

 

We solve this problem by using logic & reason. Logic tells us there's no evidence that vaccinations cause autism, or any other, similar disease. Logic tells us that kids used to die in FAR greater numbers prior to the era of modern vaccination.

 

Yet people aren't doing it? Why?

 

Because some junk science came out in the early 2000s (that has later been thoroughly discredited), and some celebrities picked up on it. And too many Americans would rather believe a celebrity than a scientist for some reason. That's it.

 

Some people drive drunk, drive without their seatbelts on, refuse to use a proper carseat for their kids, etc etc. It's all still against the law.

Well now they've got Rand Paul telling them as well.......

 

These guys aren't helping anything spreading these stories. Telling people things and then not being able to elaborate or support it with any facts. Pitiful and common all at once.

 

Good discussion here folks. I hope the government does figure out how they will proceed with handling this. As all of you said, the evidence is pretty clear. If people continue to spread these rumors though, the issue will only grow. Information and education needs to increase. Judging, hating, and rejecting discussion is doing nobody any good.

[StPaulHusker]

Parents need to find a pediatrician they can trust. Not believe. Trust. I trust my kid's pediatrician 100%. Not that I needed convincing but he says vaccines are the right way to go. I'm not sure why people trust someone they never met.

 

Religious affiliations not included.