Netanyahu Speech

[BigRedBuster]

I know this is being in the news a lot but I get the feeling that a lot of America isn't understanding really how huge this issue is.

 

LINK to rundown of controversy around it.

 

For the most part, I fully understand and support our support for Israel simply because we were part of the idiotic group that on November 29th 1947 that voted to allow the Partition Plan which created the modern Israel and war broke out between Israel and Arabs shortly after. What the hell was the world thinking creating this country right in the middle of a world that hates them?

 

However, I have been very critical of Israel because I believe their settlements and treatment of their power over Gaza has at times gone way too far and has contributed greatly to the conflict. I have been in favor of the US putting certain pressure on Israel to stop doing those things that creates enemies for both them and us. So, I'm not giving Israel any pass on this issue.

 

As far as Iran goes, I have been critical of past Presidents who refused to even talk to them because I honestly believe the old saying of..."Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" is a good way to live in this situation. If you want Iran to change, you have to talk to them.

 

So, I support Obama talking to Iran. The problem is, it appears that he has done a horrible job of keeping Israel in the loop and caring about their concerns over this issue.

 

I also seem to fully understand Netanyahu's issues with this. If Obama is going and making a deal with Iran that he thinks will give Iran the ability to gain a nuke easier or doesn't help prevent it, this is a direct threat to Israel. Leaders of that country have publicly stated that they want Israel wiped off the face of the earth.

 

Obama MUST include Israel in these talks for two things. a) They need to be on board with this so they feel secure, and b) They need to understand they need to do certain things in the peace process.

 

To me, Netanyahu is acting out of desperation. He is literally scared to death about what can happen after this agreement goes through and he is trying everything he can to make the US government wake up to what he is saying.

 

Should he have been invited to talk to congress? I don't know. To me, it seems like arguing either way is playing crappy American politics and politicizing the issue. The fact is, we have a foreign leader who we have sworn to be an ally for scared shitless that we are doing something that will ultimately get many of his citizens killed.

 

Obama has got to get over his attitude against Netanyahu and include him in the process or this is going to be a disaster.

 

As the article I linked states, this is putting the bipartisanship of support for Israel at a cross roads. To me, it appears the White House is pushing an issue that is driving a wedge between everyone.

 

If Obama goes through this this agreement and if Iran gets a nuke and if that creates an even worse environment for Jews in Israel, this will forever be a huge black eye on Obama's administration.

 

 

[TGHusker]

Good article and good review of the article BRB. I, too, want us to support Israel as best we can - our only true democratic partner in the region. I also don't trust Iran - until they come out and say Israel has a right to exist and pull their puppet terrorist groups back, we can assume nothing good will come out of an Iranian nuclear program. I also think it is good that Obama's team is talking to them but I think they error by not keeping Israel, our partner, in the loop. Maybe it would have worked better as a 3 way talk - Israel, USA, Iran or a regional talk (include SA, Jordan, Egypt as the other major players - Syria is a puppet of Iran) with concessions from both sides - agreements on the Palestine issue and self determination of those people (Palestine issues being the powder keg issue in the region) along wt an abandonment of the nuclear program in Iran and declarations by the Arab League supporting Israel's right to exist. Sounds simple but with centuries of distrust in the region - not so much.

[BigRedBuster]

To me, the Dems who refuse to go to his speech were doing nothing but playing party politics and are doing absolutely nothing to try to help the issue.

[TGHusker]

To me, the Dems who refuse to go to his speech were doing nothing but playing party politics and are doing absolutely nothing to try to help the issue.

yes, this is beyond party politics - dem or rep. Politics has become child's play - instead of talking, everyone wants to take their basketball home and leave everyone else standing on the court.

[strigori]

To me, the Dems who refuse to go to his speech were doing nothing but playing party politics and are doing absolutely nothing to try to help the issue.

His whole visit is nothing but politics. GOP is pandering and warmongering, and Netanyahu is in an election cycle himself.

[knapplc]

Inviting Netanyahu to speak before Congress was a seditious act. I'd like to say I'm shocked that a party representative would stab a sitting president in the back like this, but sadly, I'm not shocked. It's the new normal. Doesn't make it right.

 

I have next to no sympathy for Israel in this situation. Israel has been cut out of talks because they are the warmongers right now. Iran is at a crossroads in their "revolution" where they are ready to create a more normalized relationship with the West.

 

Why does Israel fight this? Because if Iran becomes less of a threat, there's less of a need to funnel the $100 billion (that's a B) in military aid to Israel every year. Israel has not been striving for peace in the Middle East - they've been fomenting a state of near-war, especially in the Gaza Strip. All of this unrest is designed to keep sympathy high for the Israelis amongst the Western powers, and keep that aid flowing in.

 

Obama's deal with Iran isn't perfect. Neither were any of Reagan's disarmament deals with the Soviets. But they're steps in the right direction. Rather than maintaining a nobody-wins antagonistic stance toward each other, it's time to sit down and at least begin talking.

 

Enough with war for the sake of war. If that's what Israel wants, they can fight it on their own. I'm ready for peace. Clearly Boehner isn't, nor is his buddy Netanyahu.

 

Siding with a foreign leader over your own people, that's disgusting. Every one of those congressmen who gave Netanyahu standing ovation after standing ovation should be ashamed of themselves.

[BigRedBuster]

Warmongering? I wouldn't necessarily say that. That's a hot word liberals use constantly against conservatives in foreign policies and sometimes it just doesn't work. Nobody is claiming the US should go invade Iran tomorrow in the name of Israel. Are they playing politics? Probably some. But, I have to say keeping our relations good with Israel is important and letting their voices be heard in this issue is important. It's obviously something Obama and the Dems have decided doesn't matter.

 

Obama started this mess with utter stupidity and an attitude of..."I'm so smart I'm going to deal with Iran all by myself". What he hasn't thought about is that his actions affect other people other than Americans and the people the Dems are trying to gain votes from.

 

Is there some politics from Netanyahu being played? Maybe. But, I would say he is the one worried about politics the least in this. He has a very large national security interest in this and this goes way beyond gaining votes for him.

 

In the end, Obama is being an idiot. The Republicans are doing the closest thing to the right (notice I didn't say 100% right) thing in all of this and at the same time making some political hay. No different than what the Dems do an a number of other issues. When a Republican President does something stupid, they will do a more correct thing and make political hay.

 

The sad thing is, sometimes other people's security gets in the middle of our own political mess.

[knapplc]

Wow. Really? A foreign national speaking against a sitting US president, on the floor of the American congress, is NOT politics?

 

Of all the stretches I've seen in this forum, that's among the biggest.

 

The Republicans are siding with a foreign head of state rather than providing a unified front against a former enemy, Iran.

 

Netanyahu is claiming that a peace deal with Iran will automatically lead to war with Israel. That wouldn't happen if Israel would join the talks, but they don't want to. Why? They have 100 billion reasons a year not to.

[darkhorse85]

Raytheon's revenue has been down the past two years.

[BigRedBuster]

Wow. Really? A foreign national speaking against a sitting US president, on the floor of the American congress, is NOT politics?

 

Of all the stretches I've seen in this forum, that's among the biggest.

 

The Republicans are siding with a foreign head of state rather than providing a unified front against a former enemy, Iran.

 

Netanyahu is claiming that a peace deal with Iran will automatically lead to war with Israel. That wouldn't happen if Israel would join the talks, but they don't want to. Why? They have 100 billion reasons a year not to.

A sitting American President is completely ignoring a foreign head of state that we have vowed to protect as an ally and negotiating with a country who in the past has vowed to wipe them off the face of the earth and that isn't a major issue? Obama is this great peace negotiator that can just go about things on his own without any consequences to other people?

 

I agreed in my statement that there was some politics being played by the Republicans. But, I have to say that from what I have read and heard on this issue, Obama is being an idiot. He did the right thing by starting to talk to Iran. I said that in my original post. But, you don't go negotiate with Iran without bringing Israel with you. This is what that causes.

[knapplc]

So much love for Israel here. And it is SO unwarranted. Israel is a greater threat to American security than Iran, by far. They have meddled in American politics (as recently as yesterday!), and they are one of the greatest threats to America's intelligence community:

 

Israel Flagged as Top Spy Threat to U.S. in New Snowden/NSA Document

 

In this new document, Israel was identified by the NSA as a security threat in several areas, including “the threat of development of weapons of mass destruction” and “delivery methods (particularly ballistic and nuclear-capable cruise missiles).” The NSA also flagged Israel’s “WMD and missile proliferation activities” and “cruise missiles” as threats.

 

In a section of the document headed “Foreign Intelligence, Counterintelligence; Denial & Deception Activities: Countering Foreign Intelligence Threats,” Israel was listed as a leading perpetrator of “espionage/intelligence collection operations and manipulation/influence operations…against U.S. government, military, science & technology and Intelligence Community” organs.

 

The term “manipulation/influence operations” refers to covert attempts by Israel to sway U.S. public opinion in its favor. In this, Israel has dubious company, according to the NSA: Other leading threats were listed as China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, France, Venezuela and South Korea.

 

 

I get that Fox News isn't covering this, but everyone needs to know who and what Israel really is. They are a leech stuck on the ass-end of America. They are no more an ally than anyone else in the Middle East.

[BigRedBuster]

So much love for Israel here. And it is SO unwarranted. Israel is a greater threat to American security than Iran, by far. They have meddled in American politics (as recently as yesterday!), and they are one of the greatest threats to America's intelligence community:

 

Israel Flagged as Top Spy Threat to U.S. in New Snowden/NSA Document

 

 

In this new document, Israel was identified by the NSA as a security threat in several areas, including “the threat of development of weapons of mass destruction” and “delivery methods (particularly ballistic and nuclear-capable cruise missiles).” The NSA also flagged Israel’s “WMD and missile proliferation activities” and “cruise missiles” as threats.

 

In a section of the document headed “Foreign Intelligence, Counterintelligence; Denial & Deception Activities: Countering Foreign Intelligence Threats,” Israel was listed as a leading perpetrator of “espionage/intelligence collection operations and manipulation/influence operations…against U.S. government, military, science & technology and Intelligence Community” organs.

 

The term “manipulation/influence operations” refers to covert attempts by Israel to sway U.S. public opinion in its favor. In this, Israel has dubious company, according to the NSA: Other leading threats were listed as China, Russia, Cuba, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, France, Venezuela and South Korea.

 

 

I get that Fox News isn't covering this, but everyone needs to know who and what Israel really is. They are a leech stuck on the ass-end of America. They are no more an ally than anyone else in the Middle East.

You can leave "Fox News" comments out of this since neither of us watch that load of crap.

 

In the past I have been very critical of Israel and in my very first post I acknowledged that so not sure where this comment about "Love for Israel" is coming from.

 

 

However, I have been very critical of Israel because I believe their settlements and treatment of their power over Gaza has at times gone way too far and has contributed greatly to the conflict. I have been in favor of the US putting certain pressure on Israel to stop doing those things that creates enemies for both them and us. So, I'm not giving Israel any pass on this issue.

 

[NUance]

It's sad that the topic of Israel has become a partisan political sticking point. Shouldn't both sides—red and blue—support America's interests first? Seems like the republicans are acting at Israel's behest.

 

As for Netanyahu, I don't agree with his perspective in regards to Iranian peace talks. But I have to admit that he is incredibly well spoken. Certainly more polished and well spoken than any of our recent leaders. It makes me wonder about our American system of electing political leaders.

[knapplc]

You can leave "Fox News" comments out of this since neither of us watch that load of crap.

Apologies. I have no idea why I put that in there. Makes you wonder about subliminal messages on some of these sites. That just popped out of the keyboard for no reason.

[NUinID]

It's sad that the topic of Israel has become a partisan political sticking point. Shouldn't both sides—red and blue—support America's interests first? Seems like the republicans are acting at Israel's behest.

 

As for Netanyahu, I don't agree with his perspective in regards to Iranian peace talks. But I have to admit that he is incredibly well spoken. Certainly more polished and well spoken than any of our recent leaders. It makes me wonder about our American system of electing political leaders.

 

I agree, he is a very well spoken leader. Say what ever you want about Israel and Netanyahu, being warmongers. But, I completely understand their reasoning for being very proactive when it comes to their nations security. Sitting idle in the past and expecting our world to be a logical and civil place did them no good.