McKewon on Husker Recruiting

[Mavric]

Urban Meyer had a mess to clean up when he took over at Ohio State in 2011, but the mess came with a solid roster of talent.

 

He was allowed to go 6 - 7 that year.

 

You mean they were 6-7 the year before but he went 12-0 in his first year?

Edited June 2, 2015 by Mavric
Landlord beat me to it.

[Saunders]

Urban Meyer had a mess to clean up when he took over at Ohio State in 2011, but the mess came with a solid roster of talent.

 

He was allowed to go 6 - 7 that year.

Meyer took over in 2012, and went 12-0. He hasn't lost a regular season conference game in his 3 years either. Probably not the best example...

[Guy Chamberlin]

Are you people trying to tell me I"m totally wrong?

[Mavric]

 

 

It starts with winning your division. Nebraska has a consensus recruiting advantage over the rest of the West (base on rankings). With a grace period for this year, NU should (at minimum) win the division every other year with above average coaching, and 2 out of 3 years with good coaching. If we can push the average class 10-15 spots, that puts us in the upper teens/lower twenties range. IMO, that's where we need to be to compete for the B1G crown annually, and be considered for the playoff.

 

Really, there shouldn't be a grace period for this year. Save for Wisky, we have better talent than the teams in our division.

 

And save for Kill, better coaching than anyone in our division, too.

 

 

It's not really a very uncommon thing for good coaches with a lot of talent to have a transitioning first year.

 

Texas has a ton of talent and the opinions of unproven-at-his-current-stop Charlie Strong are much higher than the opinions of unproven-at-his-current-stop Mike Riley, yet he went 5-7 last year.

 

Stoops went 7-5 his first year with a loaded roster before winning the championship in year two.

 

Same with Carroll at USC. 6-6 in year one, 11-2 ranked #4 in year two.

 

This happens frequently.

 

Yes and no.

 

Oklahoma went 3-8, 4-8 and 5-6 the three years before Stoops went 7-5. So that wasn't a great record but it was a lot better than they had been doing.

 

USC went 6-6 and 5-7 the two years before Carroll got there so it was a slight improvement from the year before.

 

So neither had great success but they had the program improving in year 1. So I don't think that shows taking a stop back happens frequently. We'll see how Strong does.

[Landlord]

 

 

 

It starts with winning your division. Nebraska has a consensus recruiting advantage over the rest of the West (base on rankings). With a grace period for this year, NU should (at minimum) win the division every other year with above average coaching, and 2 out of 3 years with good coaching. If we can push the average class 10-15 spots, that puts us in the upper teens/lower twenties range. IMO, that's where we need to be to compete for the B1G crown annually, and be considered for the playoff.

 

Really, there shouldn't be a grace period for this year. Save for Wisky, we have better talent than the teams in our division.

 

And save for Kill, better coaching than anyone in our division, too.

 

 

It's not really a very uncommon thing for good coaches with a lot of talent to have a transitioning first year.

 

Texas has a ton of talent and the opinions of unproven-at-his-current-stop Charlie Strong are much higher than the opinions of unproven-at-his-current-stop Mike Riley, yet he went 5-7 last year.

 

Stoops went 7-5 his first year with a loaded roster before winning the championship in year two.

 

Same with Carroll at USC. 6-6 in year one, 11-2 ranked #4 in year two.

 

This happens frequently.

 

Yes and no.

 

Oklahoma went 3-8, 4-8 and 5-6 the three years before Stoops went 7-5. So that wasn't a great record but it was a lot better than they had been doing.

 

USC went 6-6 and 5-7 the two years before Carroll got there so it was a slight improvement from the year before.

 

So neither had great success but they had the program improving in year 1. So I don't think that shows taking a stop back happens frequently. We'll see how Strong does.

 

 

 

 

They were stockpiled with talent, though.

 

 

Saban went 7-6 following a 10-2 then 6-7 season before him, then exploded to 12-2 and never looked back. As another example.

[southernoregonhusker]

 

Do I think NU athletes underperformed under Pelini

Yes, but with the exception of QBs and a few others- individually the skill development wasnt bad for many players. Team execution,scheme management, team development, roster management, game management, team chemistry etc was very poor under Pelini,

 

Ive seen the study cited, it puts Pelini and Riley on similar ground as far as outperforming their talent. Both performed about where the talent said they would, nothing more, nothing less

 

So the big advantage we are supposed to get from Riley as far as player development as individuals, there isnt any evidence to say that is true. OTOH one can hope and NU certainly wouldnt expect to get worse when it comes to the things Pelinis teams struggled with- turnovers, meltdowns, untimely penalties, poor roster management etc To say NU automatically with Riley at the Helm is now a 10, 11 or 12 win team- just cant be counted on. Riley has no track record of putting together those type of teams. Dennis Erickson did better at OSU than Riley did and where is Dennis Erickson in the strata of College Coaches?

,

Does NU have the talent to be a 10 win team or maybe even 11? Sure, but many teams can say that and NU has had the talent and not realized it for quite some time.

LOTS of factors beyond talent go into putting together an 11 win season- ask any coach.

But having potential doesnt mean anyone actually realizes it. Coach Riley hasnt shown he can do it either.

 

The cup isnt overflowing either- we weak/unproven at DE, LB and RB we are unproven and have very little depth at other spots including QB, OL

 

Erickson did that with the players that Riley put into place. Whether Riley could have done the same thing at OSU with those players we will never know.

 

I agree with the first part of the bolded statement. The skill player development has not been bad at all. Even at QB you are only going to do so much when you take an athlete that is not a great passer and make him pass 25+ times a game.

 

The second part of the bolded are all things that BP was poor at that I think Riley will improve upon. To me those things that Riley can improve may be worth an increase of at least 1 win a year.

 

I would like to see the study you speak about. Because I think for the most part MR has outperformed his talent most years. The last couple of years no, but I have always felt he puts a competitive product on the field.

 

You coach FB I think, I coached for 20 plus years the last 15 at Norfolk HS. We never had the most talent, we never had the most size, but we always came to play and our head coach IMO was the most innovative offensive mind in the state. The Millards and LSE of the world never liked playing us because it was going to be a dogfight. They most likely would win, but they would be licking their wounds.

 

Most the PAC 12 coaches really didn't to want to play OSU. You always got a dog fight from a Riley coached team.

 

I am excited to see what Riley can do with a lot more talent.

 

Interesting question. Erickson brought in some JC kids that Riley never would have. Kids that weren't exactly choir boys. He also allowed them to play a dirty-ish style that Riley would not have condoned. As an OSU grad, I loved beating Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl, but was embarrassed by how it was done. There were, like, 11-12 personal foul penalties called against OSU in that game. It was ugly.

[BigRedBuster]

Nobody knows what kind of talent we have that will fit in with what Riley and company are wanting to do and how the players will react and play under this crew. Anyone who says they do is doing nothing more than making a wild ass guess.

 

I personally feel we have had the talent in the last couple of years to end with a better record than we did. I also believe over the last few years the talent has been improving. How much? I have no idea. And...yes...that is my wild ass guess.

[NUinID]

 

 

Do I think NU athletes underperformed under Pelini

Yes, but with the exception of QBs and a few others- individually the skill development wasnt bad for many players. Team execution,scheme management, team development, roster management, game management, team chemistry etc was very poor under Pelini,

 

Ive seen the study cited, it puts Pelini and Riley on similar ground as far as outperforming their talent. Both performed about where the talent said they would, nothing more, nothing less

 

So the big advantage we are supposed to get from Riley as far as player development as individuals, there isnt any evidence to say that is true. OTOH one can hope and NU certainly wouldnt expect to get worse when it comes to the things Pelinis teams struggled with- turnovers, meltdowns, untimely penalties, poor roster management etc To say NU automatically with Riley at the Helm is now a 10, 11 or 12 win team- just cant be counted on. Riley has no track record of putting together those type of teams. Dennis Erickson did better at OSU than Riley did and where is Dennis Erickson in the strata of College Coaches?

,

Does NU have the talent to be a 10 win team or maybe even 11? Sure, but many teams can say that and NU has had the talent and not realized it for quite some time.

LOTS of factors beyond talent go into putting together an 11 win season- ask any coach.

But having potential doesnt mean anyone actually realizes it. Coach Riley hasnt shown he can do it either.

 

The cup isnt overflowing either- we weak/unproven at DE, LB and RB we are unproven and have very little depth at other spots including QB, OL

 

Erickson did that with the players that Riley put into place. Whether Riley could have done the same thing at OSU with those players we will never know.

 

I agree with the first part of the bolded statement. The skill player development has not been bad at all. Even at QB you are only going to do so much when you take an athlete that is not a great passer and make him pass 25+ times a game.

 

The second part of the bolded are all things that BP was poor at that I think Riley will improve upon. To me those things that Riley can improve may be worth an increase of at least 1 win a year.

 

I would like to see the study you speak about. Because I think for the most part MR has outperformed his talent most years. The last couple of years no, but I have always felt he puts a competitive product on the field.

 

You coach FB I think, I coached for 20 plus years the last 15 at Norfolk HS. We never had the most talent, we never had the most size, but we always came to play and our head coach IMO was the most innovative offensive mind in the state. The Millards and LSE of the world never liked playing us because it was going to be a dogfight. They most likely would win, but they would be licking their wounds.

 

Most the PAC 12 coaches really didn't to want to play OSU. You always got a dog fight from a Riley coached team.

 

I am excited to see what Riley can do with a lot more talent.

 

Interesting question. Erickson brought in some JC kids that Riley never would have. Kids that weren't exactly choir boys. He also allowed them to play a dirty-ish style that Riley would not have condoned. As an OSU grad, I loved beating Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl, but was embarrassed by how it was done. There were, like, 11-12 personal foul penalties called against OSU in that game. It was ugly.

 

Yes, I remember watching that game. It was fun to see ND get beat, but it was like watching Miami of the Great Northwest.

[Mavric]

 

 

 

 

It starts with winning your division. Nebraska has a consensus recruiting advantage over the rest of the West (base on rankings). With a grace period for this year, NU should (at minimum) win the division every other year with above average coaching, and 2 out of 3 years with good coaching. If we can push the average class 10-15 spots, that puts us in the upper teens/lower twenties range. IMO, that's where we need to be to compete for the B1G crown annually, and be considered for the playoff.

 

Really, there shouldn't be a grace period for this year. Save for Wisky, we have better talent than the teams in our division.

 

And save for Kill, better coaching than anyone in our division, too.

 

 

It's not really a very uncommon thing for good coaches with a lot of talent to have a transitioning first year.

 

Texas has a ton of talent and the opinions of unproven-at-his-current-stop Charlie Strong are much higher than the opinions of unproven-at-his-current-stop Mike Riley, yet he went 5-7 last year.

 

Stoops went 7-5 his first year with a loaded roster before winning the championship in year two.

 

Same with Carroll at USC. 6-6 in year one, 11-2 ranked #4 in year two.

 

This happens frequently.

 

Yes and no.

 

Oklahoma went 3-8, 4-8 and 5-6 the three years before Stoops went 7-5. So that wasn't a great record but it was a lot better than they had been doing.

 

USC went 6-6 and 5-7 the two years before Carroll got there so it was a slight improvement from the year before.

 

So neither had great success but they had the program improving in year 1. So I don't think that shows taking a stop back happens frequently. We'll see how Strong does.

 

They were stockpiled with talent, though.

 

Saban went 7-6 following a 10-2 then 6-7 season before him, then exploded to 12-2 and never looked back. As another example.

 

What are you basing this off of?

 

Oklahoma had two players drafted by the NFL in 2000 (after the first year Stoops was the coach), then two more in 2001, two more in 2002. Of those, only Roy Williams was particularly successful in the NFL. USC looks to have had more talent when Carroll got there.

 

And you still haven't given an example of a coach that had a worse record than the year before he got there.

[NUinID]

We've seen Nebraska play pretty well with the talent we've had.

 

We've seen them struggle against better teams, which shouldn't be surprising.

 

We've seen them play pretty well against better teams -- for one half -- which should have been encouraging.

 

But we also saw the entire team — offense, defense, special teams, skill players, seniors and leaders — meltdown in the same game, seemingly unable to remember what they do well and unwilling to make adjustments. We've heard coaches, players and broadcasters genuinely baffled why the Nebraska defense insisted on a scheme that was constantly being exploited.

 

Bo Pelini's teams really wanted to win for him. Or to make him happy. Or to not get yelled at. Maybe they even played harder for him, but they didn't play smarter or better. Bo Pelini's teams had terrible body language on the sideline.

 

We haven't had Top 10 talent, but we've definitely had Top 20 talent. Recruiting aside, we've underperformed and all signs point to coaching.

 

So yeah, I've got one foot in the camp that expects immediate improvement from Riley and Associates. Even with major changes -- like we adopted in the four short weeks leading up to the Holiday Bowl.

 

But I'm not attaching a required win total yet. Just looking forward to the season and a more invigorating and hopefully fun brand of football.

 

Guy I am with you in expecting immediate improvement, but with that said, the improvement I want to see is not necessarily in the W-L column.

 

I want to see a team that plays hard all the time. I want to see a team having fun. I want to see a team that doesn't get a glazed look in there eye after giving up a 50 yard run. I want to see a team that doesn't give up 50 yard runs. I want to see a team that adjust better to what the other team is doing. In short I want to see a better product.

 

That doesn't mean they will win more, but they will look better and the wins will eventually come.

[zoogs]

 

Urban Meyer had a mess to clean up when he took over at Ohio State in 2011, but the mess came with a solid roster of talent.

 

He was allowed to go 6 - 7 that year.

Meyer took over in 2012, and went 12-0. He hasn't lost a regular season conference game in his 3 years either. Probably not the best example...

 

Meyer is not the best example.

 

Simply put, I think Riley is no Meyer. But few are. Let's go easy on the guy if he doesn't turn out the be one of the biggest success hires any college team has made in recent years.

[zoogs]

I also think the "improving W column in Year One" standard is really overblown.

 

It's relatively easy to be an 8 or 9 win team. Not trivial, but relatively. It's no huge accomplishment to be Top 25 ish -- whether you are coming from a usually premier program that just went through a few down years, or whether you notched 8 or 9 wins the year before.

 

It's not easy to get to to 11 win status. That's whether you went 6-6 the year before, 9-4 the year before, or 12-0 the year before. We're talking about Top 10 teams in the championship hunt, teams that others in their conference or division are looking up at.

 

Few teams accomplish that any year. Few coaches accomplish this at a P5 program. It *is* an impressive achievement. And to get there, a lot of things are going to have to go right.

[NUinID]

 

 

 

 

 

It starts with winning your division. Nebraska has a consensus recruiting advantage over the rest of the West (base on rankings). With a grace period for this year, NU should (at minimum) win the division every other year with above average coaching, and 2 out of 3 years with good coaching. If we can push the average class 10-15 spots, that puts us in the upper teens/lower twenties range. IMO, that's where we need to be to compete for the B1G crown annually, and be considered for the playoff.

 

Really, there shouldn't be a grace period for this year. Save for Wisky, we have better talent than the teams in our division.

 

And save for Kill, better coaching than anyone in our division, too.

 

 

It's not really a very uncommon thing for good coaches with a lot of talent to have a transitioning first year.

 

Texas has a ton of talent and the opinions of unproven-at-his-current-stop Charlie Strong are much higher than the opinions of unproven-at-his-current-stop Mike Riley, yet he went 5-7 last year.

 

Stoops went 7-5 his first year with a loaded roster before winning the championship in year two.

 

Same with Carroll at USC. 6-6 in year one, 11-2 ranked #4 in year two.

 

This happens frequently.

 

Yes and no.

 

Oklahoma went 3-8, 4-8 and 5-6 the three years before Stoops went 7-5. So that wasn't a great record but it was a lot better than they had been doing.

 

USC went 6-6 and 5-7 the two years before Carroll got there so it was a slight improvement from the year before.

 

So neither had great success but they had the program improving in year 1. So I don't think that shows taking a stop back happens frequently. We'll see how Strong does.

 

They were stockpiled with talent, though.

 

Saban went 7-6 following a 10-2 then 6-7 season before him, then exploded to 12-2 and never looked back. As another example.

 

What are you basing this off of?

 

Oklahoma had two players drafted by the NFL in 2000 (after the first year Stoops was the coach), then two more in 2001, two more in 2002. Of those, only Roy Williams was particularly successful in the NFL. USC looks to have had more talent when Carroll got there.

 

And you still haven't given an example of a coach that had a worse record than the year before he got there.

 

 

OU moved a lot of talent around. He turned a lot of DB into WR and got real lucky on a couple of JC guys. Josh Huepel was a JC QB and the LB last name was Marshal became an AA. They also got every break that year that you could imagine and went injury free. They were woefully thin on both lines.

 

I knew it was there game against NU when Huepel throws up a prayer at a well covered WR the ball is tipped up in the air and the WR has the ball land right in his lap as he is laying on his back. It was like 3rd and 15 on the play.

[zoogs]

I remember that game so clearly. We were in the midst of such a great season and jumped out to a 14-0 lead. Everything was rocking.

 

There's about a 2 hour black hole in my memory after that.

 

But man, was I amped up for some revenge the next year. Bob Stoops throwing down his headset and screaming at the 3rd & 5 facemask that set up Black 41 Flash Reverse. What a game. What a season. I don't remember how that season ended, or the next ten or twelve or whatever, but that was some beautiful Nebraska football.

[Mavric]

I also think the "improving W column in Year One" standard is really overblown.

 

It's relatively easy to be an 8 or 9 win team. Not trivial, but relatively. It's no huge accomplishment to be Top 25 ish -- whether you are coming from a usually premier program that just went through a few down years, or whether you notched 8 or 9 wins the year before.

 

It's not easy to get to to 11 win status. That's whether you went 6-6 the year before, 9-4 the year before, or 12-0 the year before. We're talking about Top 10 teams in the championship hunt, teams that others in their conference or division are looking up at.

 

Few teams accomplish that any year. Few coaches accomplish this at a P5 program. It *is* an impressive achievement. And to get there, a lot of things are going to have to go right.

 

I've not seen anyone saying they expect 11 wins. I've seen a lot of 7-8 wins. If it's relatively easy to get 9 wins, why are so many expecting 7?