Penalties

[quesadilla]

 

That turn over information is actually very in encouraging to me.

 

Clean that up and we might have something special. AND....when almost all of those were caused by one player....well....improve that position and.....

Trouble is, IIRC, Riley teams have been pretty bad in this regard. So I doubt they'll be willing as coaches to try to get help with solving the problem.

 

It's actually penalties that are the problem for MR teams, not turnovers. The last sevens years* he coached at Oregon State he had 5 years with positive turn over margins, 1 year was negative, and 1 was even. The same time period (2008-'14) for the Huskers saw 2 years with positive margins, 4 with negative margins, and 1 even.

 

This year Huskers had 21 INTs (16 by TA) vs. only 6 fumbles lost... obviously that made for a bad year but I'd be inclined to chalk it up more to TA's aggressiveness in a new system that wasn't exactly tailored to his existing strengths rather than see it as par for course for MR's teams.

 

*Not sure about MR's entire career; I looked at this earlier this season when comparing penalties and turnovers at Oregon St. against BP's Huskers, so I only looked at 2008-2014.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Mavric
Split from the B1G bowl blowouts thread.

[beorach]

I've shared before that Riley and Banker, in their third season at Oregon State (during their last stint there, wanna say this was 2006), had a defense that forced ~33 turnovers. I have not tracked penalties but they've certainly been an issue this season. I was hoping that'd be a big difference this season with a guy who has been a HC so long. Wishful thinking had me chalking that up to the new systems on both sides of the ball. Time will tell.

[BigRedBuster]

I really don't care that much about penalties unless it gets way out of hand for which it wasn't this year.

 

A team like Ohio State is only 13 yards less than us in penalties per game. Alabama is less than 6 yards less in penalties. Oregon is only 2.8 yards better per game. LSU, TCU, USC, Baylor, are all worse than us in penalty yards.

 

It's frustrating while you are watching the game. But, other than that, it's not that big of a deal. We are sitting at 100th in the country. To get to be top 25, it's only 20 yards less per game.

 

I'm not saying improvement wouldn't help the team. But, there are far bigger areas that need improvement that would have a bigger impact.

[Mavric]

I really don't care that much about penalties unless it gets way out of hand for which it wasn't this year.

 

A team like Ohio State is only 13 yards less than us in penalties per game. Alabama is less than 6 yards less in penalties. Oregon is only 2.8 yards better per game. LSU, TCU, USC, Baylor, are all worse than us in penalty yards.

 

It's frustrating while you are watching the game. But, other than that, it's not that big of a deal. We are sitting at 100th in the country. To get to be top 25, it's only 20 yards less per game.

 

I'm not saying improvement wouldn't help the team. But, there are far bigger areas that need improvement that would have a bigger impact.

I think the problem with this argument is that penalties don't treat everyone equally. Most of the teams you listed were winning a lot of games handily. Penalties aren't as big of a deal in that case. When every game is coming down to the final play, they have a huge effect on the game.

[BigRedBuster]

 

I really don't care that much about penalties unless it gets way out of hand for which it wasn't this year.

 

A team like Ohio State is only 13 yards less than us in penalties per game. Alabama is less than 6 yards less in penalties. Oregon is only 2.8 yards better per game. LSU, TCU, USC, Baylor, are all worse than us in penalty yards.

 

It's frustrating while you are watching the game. But, other than that, it's not that big of a deal. We are sitting at 100th in the country. To get to be top 25, it's only 20 yards less per game.

 

I'm not saying improvement wouldn't help the team. But, there are far bigger areas that need improvement that would have a bigger impact.

I think the problem with this argument is that penalties don't treat everyone equally. Most of the teams you listed were winning a lot of games handily. Penalties aren't as big of a deal in that case. When every game is coming down to the final play, they have a huge effect on the game.

So, you are saying their are other issues that kept the game close which made the penalties hurt more.

 

Agree. Fix those other issues.

 

Every team is going to get penalized.

 

How many penalties did we have this year when the other team was simply kicking an extra point? Annoying but really didn't have any impact on the outcome of the game.

 

Penalties treat teams exactly the same. A holding call by one team is the same penalty as a holding call to the other team.

[beorach]

I remember Bo's teams struggling with offensive pre-snap penalties to a noticeable degree for at least three seasons.

[Enhance]

 

 

I really don't care that much about penalties unless it gets way out of hand for which it wasn't this year.

 

A team like Ohio State is only 13 yards less than us in penalties per game. Alabama is less than 6 yards less in penalties. Oregon is only 2.8 yards better per game. LSU, TCU, USC, Baylor, are all worse than us in penalty yards.

 

It's frustrating while you are watching the game. But, other than that, it's not that big of a deal. We are sitting at 100th in the country. To get to be top 25, it's only 20 yards less per game.

 

I'm not saying improvement wouldn't help the team. But, there are far bigger areas that need improvement that would have a bigger impact.

I think the problem with this argument is that penalties don't treat everyone equally. Most of the teams you listed were winning a lot of games handily. Penalties aren't as big of a deal in that case. When every game is coming down to the final play, they have a huge effect on the game.

So, you are saying their are other issues that kept the game close which made the penalties hurt more.

 

Agree. Fix those other issues.

 

Every team is going to get penalized.

 

How many penalties did we have this year when the other team was simply kicking an extra point? Annoying but really didn't have any impact on the outcome of the game.

 

Penalties treat teams exactly the same. A holding call by one team is the same penalty as a holding call to the other team.

 

Good discussion, Buster and Mav. I think another thing to keep in mind is that penalties will often happen either due to 1) a lack of physical ability or 2) confusion.

 

In the example of holding, sometimes a player will get called for it because the opponent beat them. Other times, however, penalties are called because a player either didn't get lined up correctly, couldn't hear the snap count, etc.

 

Sometimes penalties straight up are a lack of discipline and something a coach can correct. But, other times, the penalties can be shored up simply by improving as a player but also better understanding the schemes and what's being asked of you.

[adc7236]

Penalties will always occur....however...

 

Where did penalty occur? Red zone, deep in your own territory?

When did penalty occur? Third and long, Third and short, 4th down, late in game with close score? When team had momentum?

 

My point here is reducing penalties should always be a point of emphasis. Penalties can easily cost you a game, even just one at the wrong time or the wrong place on the field. Statistics don't always seem to capture that.

[ColoradoHusk]

All this talk about turnovers and penalties brings up a simple point about how NU needs to get back to having regular 10-11 win seasons and competing for conference/national championships.

 

NU needs to get back to having dominating teams and superior talent where they aren't having more than 2 or 3 close games a year. The past few years, NU has faced 5 or 6 close games per year. Some years, NU wins all or most of those games (see 2012) and there are years like 2015 where NU will lose all or most of those close games.

 

If NU is regularly winning games by 14-20+ points, then penalties and turnovers aren't as big of a concern. The penalties and turnovers are a bigger problem when the team has a propensity for close games all the time.

[Enhance]

Penalties will always occur....however...

 

Where did penalty occur? Red zone, deep in your own territory?

When did penalty occur? Third and long, Third and short, 4th down, late in game with close score? When team had momentum?

 

My point here is reducing penalties should always be a point of emphasis. Penalties can easily cost you a game, even just one at the wrong time or the wrong place on the field. Statistics don't always seem to capture that.

Spot on. A big first down throw in the 2nd quarter negated by a holding call, thus forcing a team to have to punt on that drive, can be just as damning as a penalty later in the game. The closer the penalties get to crunch time, however, the more people tend to focus on them.

[junior4949]

Not all penalties are bad. I'd rather take a PI penalty than give up a long TD. The penalties that absolutely kill are the false starts, alignment penalties, offsides, illegal motion, etc. Most coaches can live with the playing physical penalties. It's the mental ones that drive coaches insane.

[lo country]

Not all penalties are bad. I'd rather take a PI penalty than give up a long TD. The penalties that absolutely kill are the false starts, alignment penalties, offsides, illegal motion, etc. Most coaches can live with the playing physical penalties. It's the mental ones that drive coaches insane.

And the hardest to fix.....

[lo country]

Not all penalties are bad. I'd rather take a PI penalty than give up a long TD. The penalties that absolutely kill are the false starts, alignment penalties, offsides, illegal motion, etc. Most coaches can live with the playing physical penalties. It's the mental ones that drive coaches insane.

And the hardest to fix.....

 

Total penalties 2015: NU OP

PENALTIES-Yards............... 94-829 84-751

Average Per Game............ 63.8 57.8

 

We are close in yards per game. (6 yards) difference. Pretty clear that its not necessarily to number, but type and when.... 3rd and 3 with an offsides to 3rd and 8 is a huge difference in yards for the first and really limits play book options.

 

[Mavric]

 

 

I really don't care that much about penalties unless it gets way out of hand for which it wasn't this year.

 

A team like Ohio State is only 13 yards less than us in penalties per game. Alabama is less than 6 yards less in penalties. Oregon is only 2.8 yards better per game. LSU, TCU, USC, Baylor, are all worse than us in penalty yards.

 

It's frustrating while you are watching the game. But, other than that, it's not that big of a deal. We are sitting at 100th in the country. To get to be top 25, it's only 20 yards less per game.

 

I'm not saying improvement wouldn't help the team. But, there are far bigger areas that need improvement that would have a bigger impact.

I think the problem with this argument is that penalties don't treat everyone equally. Most of the teams you listed were winning a lot of games handily. Penalties aren't as big of a deal in that case. When every game is coming down to the final play, they have a huge effect on the game.

So, you are saying their are other issues that kept the game close which made the penalties hurt more.

 

Agree. Fix those other issues.

 

Every team is going to get penalized.

 

How many penalties did we have this year when the other team was simply kicking an extra point? Annoying but really didn't have any impact on the outcome of the game.

 

Penalties treat teams exactly the same. A holding call by one team is the same penalty as a holding call to the other team.

 

 

By the same token, a holding penalty when you're ahead by 21 points doesn't really have any impact on the game. A holding penalty in a tie game could be the difference between winning and losing.

 

Why would we not want to try to get better in all areas, not just everything other than penalties?

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

I really don't care that much about penalties unless it gets way out of hand for which it wasn't this year.

 

A team like Ohio State is only 13 yards less than us in penalties per game. Alabama is less than 6 yards less in penalties. Oregon is only 2.8 yards better per game. LSU, TCU, USC, Baylor, are all worse than us in penalty yards.

 

It's frustrating while you are watching the game. But, other than that, it's not that big of a deal. We are sitting at 100th in the country. To get to be top 25, it's only 20 yards less per game.

 

I'm not saying improvement wouldn't help the team. But, there are far bigger areas that need improvement that would have a bigger impact.

I think the problem with this argument is that penalties don't treat everyone equally. Most of the teams you listed were winning a lot of games handily. Penalties aren't as big of a deal in that case. When every game is coming down to the final play, they have a huge effect on the game.

So, you are saying their are other issues that kept the game close which made the penalties hurt more.

 

Agree. Fix those other issues.

 

Every team is going to get penalized.

 

How many penalties did we have this year when the other team was simply kicking an extra point? Annoying but really didn't have any impact on the outcome of the game.

 

Penalties treat teams exactly the same. A holding call by one team is the same penalty as a holding call to the other team.

By the same token, a holding penalty when you're ahead by 21 points doesn't really have any impact on the game. A holding penalty in a tie game could be the difference between winning and losing.

 

Why would we not want to try to get better in all areas, not just everything other than penalties?

Where did I say I didn't want to get better?

 

I'm saying there are other areas where there would be bigger benefit if you improved.

 

If you cut down on turnovers on offense, getting turnovers on defense for instance, we probably would be up 21 for that penalty to affect the game.