Michael Jordan: GOAT

[Slow yer Roll]

MJ - Loved worldwide 

 

 

LBJ - Loved by communist leaders, and himself.

 

 

 

FLBJ

[Guy Chamberlin]

I don't hate Lebron James. I just don't love him.

 

He doesn't beat Jordan for GOAT, and honestly he's just outside the Top 10 if I'm picking all-time teams. 

 

[sho]

18 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I don't hate Lebron James. I just don't love him.

 

He doesn't beat Jordan for GOAT, and honestly he's just outside the Top 10 if I'm picking all-time teams. 

 

Outside 10?   Interesting.  Who is in your top 10?

[Guy Chamberlin]

36 minutes ago, sho said:

Outside 10?   Interesting.  Who is in your top 10?

 

In fairness, when I'm thinking about teams I'm thinking about the greatest players playing together. So you'd need a balance of playing styles and positions. I change my mind a bit every year, but here goes

 

Team A

Michael Jordan

Magic Johnson

Wilt Chamberlin

Tim Duncan 

Elgin Baylor

 

Team B

Jerry West

Kobe Bryant

Bill Russell

Giannis Atentonkounmpo

Larry Bird

 

It's hard to leave LeBron off, but it's also hard to leave Kareem, Oscar Robertson, Hakeem, Shaq, Dr. J., Moses Malone, Stockton, Payton, and Curry off. I think we might appreciate Kevin Durant better in a few more years, too. Lots of great players who all did different things. 

 

You could put together five different teams of all-stars that would all stand a good chance of beating each other. 

[sho]

It's a great list, and you're right @Guy Chamberlinso many great players that deserve to be in the top 10.   I mean you picked 4 amazing forwards for your teams, and I could make the argument you left off the two best in Karl Malone and Kevin Garnett. 

 

A comment I made to a friend yesterday when discussing all-time starting 5 and I put LBJ ahead of Magic.  I'm a Lakers homer, and Magic is a Laker through and through, whereas James is just a rental and look forward to when he's gone.  That said, skill set wise, there is not one skill that I would say Magic is better than James, and there are areas where I think James is better than Magic.   Magic is why I fell in love the with the Lakers and have been a diehard fan for over 40 years, but I would take James over him and not even think twice about it.   LBJ doesn't make my Lakers Mt Rushmore, but makes my starting 5 over Magic.

 

And I know I'm leaving off so many that deserve to be in the list as well. Leaving Shaq off sees bad, and he's such a freak, but skill wise he's average, he's just a brute.  My all-time starting 5  is:

 

LBJ

MJ

Kobe

Malone

Cap

 

B team

 

Magic

Steph

Larry Bird

KG

Russell

 

[admo]

I love this!  Ok here is my top 10 all-time, in order.  I will not apologize if you disagree or see it differently.  

 

1.  Jabbar - C

2.  Bird  - SF
3.  Magic - PG
4.  Jordan - SG
5.  Oscar Robertson - SG
6.  Chamberlain - C
7.  Russell - C
8.  Shaq Fu - C

9.  Steph Curry - PG
10.  (tie) Kobe Bryant/Lebron James - SG/SF

 

 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I guess if there's anything that knocks LeBron out of this esteemed company for me is that guys like Jordan, Bryant, and Bird had this insane will to win and the talent to back it up.  Over the years I saw too many games where LeBron kinda disappeared for long stretches, including crunch time. Even with the scowl and four rings, I didn't get the same killer vibe from him as some of these other players. Last shot? Game on the line? I'm going with most of the other players listed above. 

 

And the whining over calls. LBJ is a bit of a drama queen, and that clouds my opinion a tick.

 

There are better players than Magic Johnson, but imagine how he elevates the other four legends on your team. That's the difference between the Greatest Players debate and the Dream Team debate. 

 

I slightly demoted Karl Malone a couple years ago, thinking his numbers came from Stockton and the Jazz system -- not that there's anything wrong with that. I also went into a YouTube rabbit hole about how underrated John Stockton was, with the strongest endorsement from Gary Payton.

 

 

[admo]

7 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I guess if there's anything that knocks LeBron out of this esteemed company for me is that guys like Jordan, Bryant, and Bird had this insane will to win and the talent to back it up.  Over the years I saw too many games where LeBron kinda disappeared for long stretches, including crunch time. Even with the scowl and four rings, I didn't get the same killer vibe from him as some of these other players. Last shot? Game on the line? I'm going with most of the other players listed above. 

 

And the whining over calls. LBJ is a bit of a drama queen, and that clouds my opinion a tick.

 

There are better players than Magic Johnson, but imagine how he elevates the other four legends on your team. That's the difference between the Greatest Players debate and the Dream Team debate. 

 

I slightly demoted Karl Malone a couple years ago, thinking his numbers came from Stockton and the Jazz system -- not that there's anything wrong with that. I also went into a YouTube rabbit hole about how underrated John Stockton was, with the strongest endorsement from Gary Payton.

 

 

I appreciate this take.  John Stockton is a masterful point guard, and top 3 PG of all time.  (Magic/Curry/Stockton).  There isn't much separation for what they do or have done.    

 

Karl Malone was an amazing power forward. The Mailman (IMHO) was a tad better player than Duncan/Kevin Garnett.  

[suh_fan93]

7 hours ago, admo said:

I appreciate this take.  John Stockton is a masterful point guard, and top 3 PG of all time.  (Magic/Curry/Stockton).  There isn't much separation for what they do or have done.    

 

Karl Malone was an amazing power forward. The Mailman (IMHO) was a tad better player than Duncan/Kevin Garnett.  

 

 

Personally I'm taking AI (Allen Iverson) over John Stockton any day of the week!!

 

As for Lebron yeah he's easily not in my top 10 if I had to put one together.  The guy could score 30 points but his game has just always bored me.  There are so many other/more dynamic players in the league who don't get half the coverage that he has and still continues to receive.  

[BigRedBuster]

19 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

In fairness, when I'm thinking about teams I'm thinking about the greatest players playing together. So you'd need a balance of playing styles and positions. I change my mind a bit every year, but here goes

 

Team A

Michael Jordan

Magic Johnson

Wilt Chamberlin

Tim Duncan 

Elgin Baylor

 

Team B

Jerry West

Kobe Bryant

Bill Russell

Giannis Atentonkounmpo

Larry Bird

 

It's hard to leave LeBron off, but it's also hard to leave Kareem, Oscar Robertson, Hakeem, Shaq, Dr. J., Moses Malone, Stockton, Payton, and Curry off. I think we might appreciate Kevin Durant better in a few more years, too. Lots of great players who all did different things. 

 

You could put together five different teams of all-stars that would all stand a good chance of beating each other. 

Good list.  And, Larry Bird isn't even mentioned.  I'd have to list him, even though I was a Laker's fan back then.  Magic is another.

17 hours ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

I guess if there's anything that knocks LeBron out of this esteemed company for me is that guys like Jordan, Bryant, and Bird had this insane will to win and the talent to back it up.  Over the years I saw too many games where LeBron kinda disappeared for long stretches, including crunch time. Even with the scowl and four rings, I didn't get the same killer vibe from him as some of these other players. Last shot? Game on the line? I'm going with most of the other players listed above. 

 

Agree.  

[Guy Chamberlin]

2 hours ago, BigRedBuster said:

Good list.  And, Larry Bird isn't even mentioned. 

 

He's right there on Team B.

 

Bird was just out of my Top 10 a couple years ago, because I just couldn't see him defending or being challenged by the quicker, more athletic,  three-point shooting forwards he'd be up against. But spend a little time on the Bird highlight videos: you had some really great defenders executing a Stop Larry Bird strategy, and they still couldn't. The baddest men in basketball were afraid of Bird, and he punished anyone who wasn't. If Bird was considered a defensive liability, I haven't heard it. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

4 hours ago, suh_fan93 said:

 

 

Personally I'm taking AI (Allen Iverson) over John Stockton any day of the week!!

 

As for Lebron yeah he's easily not in my top 10 if I had to put one together.  The guy could score 30 points but his game has just always bored me.  There are so many other/more dynamic players in the league who don't get half the coverage that he has and still continues to receive.  

 

Iverson was a crazy talent and tons of fun to watch, but is he going to share the ball with Michael Jordan?  Or play defense? 

[sho]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

He's right there on Team B.

 

Bird was just out of my Top 10 a couple years ago, because I just couldn't see him defending or being challenged by the quicker, more athletic,  three-point shooting forwards he'd be up against. But spend a little time on the Bird highlight videos: you had some really great defenders executing a Stop Larry Bird strategy, and they still couldn't. The baddest men in basketball were afraid of Bird, and he punished anyone who wasn't. If Bird was considered a defensive liability, I haven't heard it. 

 

The only thing to ever slow down Larry Bird was his back.   the hick was amazing.  too bad he played for emperor palpatine  

[desertshox]

4 minutes ago, sho said:

 

The only thing to ever slow down Larry Bird was his back.   the hick was amazing.  too bad he played for emperor palpatine  

 

Would that make him lord Vader?

[sho]

2 minutes ago, desertshox said:

 

Would that make him lord Vader?

 

Yes, who was eventually defeated by the Force...aka Showtime Lakers.