The General Election

[BigRedBuster]

[Guy Chamberlin]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, liberals should be troubled and conservatives encouraged by how aggressively Obama has pursued terrorists, even at the cost of innocent lives.

 

But it just doesn't play that way.

 

http://www.vocativ.com/342471/u-s-coaltion-just-dropped-its-50000th-bomb-on-isis/

Now you sound like HIllary Clinton talking about how many miles she has flown as SOS as one of her greatest accomplishments. Despite increasing the number of bombs dropped, the results have gotten worse. It's like claiming that we can solve the education issues in this country by throwing more money at it. Results are what matter, and your links are simply attempts to suggest Obama has been successful in fighting terrorism. Americans are more concerned now that any any other time since 2003 about the threat of a terror attack...does that signify that Obama has made this country feel safer?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/23/politics/terror-attack-poll/

Fascinating.

 

I didn't expect you to actually read and digest the links I provided, but I wish you would have.

 

Again, the facts do not match up with the fears, and that kinda says everything about the current political discourse.

 

Do you want to venture why people believe all sorts of things that simply aren't true about Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton? On both sides of the coin?

 

As for what is driving the divisiveness in this country.....really?

 

Have you read the words Obama has actually spoken? The actions he has, and hasn't taken?

 

Have you seen the incredibly racist sh#t thrown his way?

 

And uhm.....class warfare works in both directions, my friend, and the rich guys have been winning. Ironically, by getting people like you to believe billionaires are victims.

 

And ironically, the country doesn't feel safer right now because we are armed to the f'ing teeth, shooting everyone in sight and told not to talk about our insane fetish with guns. That's not Islamic Terrorism, folks. That's homegrown sociopathy.

 

Yay.

I think you just like to argue. I did read your link which is why I put forward the response that I did. No matter what the data and polling show, you will always come back to the same response that it's always the Republicans to blame, only Republicans are extreme, its all because of guns, etc.. So you honestly believe Obama has no responsibility for the current growth of terrorism or the increase in divisions in this country?

I think most of my posts have taken historical long views, incorporating political realities that transcend parties, including my most recent posts which advance the not-really-controversial observations that Hillary Clinton is more conservative than many are trying to paint her, and Ronald Reagan said and did many things that conservatives supposedly abhor.

So no...I never say "it's all this!" or "it's only that!" I'm trying to do the exact opposite.

 

Which means that when someone assigns all the responsibility for racial divisiveness to Barack Obama, or completely ignores things the entire Iraq War during their outrage over Benghazi, I have a strong urge to provide context.

 

I guess you could call that arguing.

 

Believe it or not, I don't like it. It's spiritually exhausting.

 

But it's what you do. For the children.

 

Since you do not think its ok to align most of the blame to our Presidents, who else besides the Bush administration do you fault for Iraq? Please be specific.

 

 

Well it would certainly include the 28 Senate Democrats who voted for Bush's war authorization, including Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Joe Biden and Harry Reid.

 

And I'm not sure I blame Bush as much as I blamed Dick Cheney, who along with his Project for a New American Century cohorts got totally taken in by Ahmed Chalabi's self-serving and totally wrong predictions of how Iraq would react to the U.S. invasion. Actually, they were wrong about a whole lot of things.

 

But if we're talking about who has fueled the flames of divisiveness in the country the past seven years, you'd have to give a good hard look at the most obstructionist Congress in U.S. history, who actually made no secret of their intention to ensure nothing good happens during the Obama administration.

 

My problem with Obama is that he never hit back hard enough.

 

I'm guessing you will disagree.

 

 

Wow, you just stated that no entity should be blamed for current challenges, yet you ended by blaming the GOP Congress.

 

 

You know, I choose my words carefully so you won't make weird, blanket statements like this.

 

But it doesn't work.

[zoogs]

'The Art of the Deal' ghostwriter criticizes Trump. Trump, I mean Erdogan ... no, actually, it is Trump -- hits back with legal threats.

 

Is this the America that Trump supporters want -- or are somehow blind to?

 

Ezra Klein has a truly very comprehensive summary of all the policy-aside aspects of Trump's candidacy that should be rallying Americans of all political stripes *together* in opposing him.

[BigRedBuster]

I'm scared Trump probably is going to read this forum and I'm going to get sued.

 

Screw it....I've been sued before.

 

Trump, you are a blow hard fraud.

[zoogs]

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/22/12258324/trump-attack-ted-cruz-transcript

 

Let's take a moment to reflect that this sort of speech is, empirically, a superlative example of political communication.

[BigRedBuster]

I witnessed something this morning that shows the major problem in American politics.

 

Newt was being interviewed this morning on CNN. The subject of violent crime rates came up and she asked him about the accuracy of comments in the speech.

 

After some back and forth he sort of agreed with her that violent crime rates are way lower than in the 80s so the speech technically was inaccurate.

 

He immediately went to saying...."well your facts are right but people don't feel safer."

 

She said...."but the average American is safer than they were".

 

Newt....."you can stick with your facts if you want, I'll go with how people feel".

 

Here's the problem with what he said. His candidate has ran a fear mongering campaign for the last year. If you tell people constantly they should be scared, they will start to be scared.

 

So, trump has helped create his own reality and he is garnering votes because of it.

 

That's idiotic.

[HuskerNation1]

Here's an interesting piece about whether our government is ready for disruption like other major industries have been in the past 2 decades.

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/07/22/is_america_ready_for_a_disruptive_president_131289.html

[zoogs]

Ezra Klein, onTrump's #MakeAmericaFearAgain platform:

 

These tragedies can be ameliorated by policy. Cigarettes can be taxed, alcohol regulated, addicts treated, guns made less accessible. But Trump wasn’t interested in making Americans safer, and so he did not mention any of these policies. He was interested in making Americans more afraid, and so he focused on the dangers that scare us, as opposed to the ones that truly threaten us.

Jon Stewart on equality and unity:

 

Those fighting to be included in the ideal of equality are not being divisive. Those fighting to keep those people out are.

Two searing passages, I thought.

We live in a democracy, which comes with it the valued institution of self-determination. It also means bad actors are always trying to deploy the instruments of fear and anger to co-opt it for their own ends (as well- or poorly-intended they may be). To guard the values we hold dear in our system requires a healthy, constant vigilance. (I know those are technically Barty Crouch, Jr.'s words, hence the "healthy" qualifier )

[mrandyk]

I witnessed something this morning that shows the major problem in American politics.

 

Newt was being interviewed this morning on CNN. The subject of violent crime rates came up and she asked him about the accuracy of comments in the speech.

 

After some back and forth he sort of agreed with her that violent crime rates are way lower than in the 80s so the speech technically was inaccurate.

 

He immediately went to saying...."well your facts are right but people don't feel safer."

 

She said...."but the average American is safer than they were".

 

Newt....."you can stick with your facts if you want, I'll go with how people feel".

 

Here's the problem with what he said. His candidate has ran a fear mongering campaign for the last year. If you tell people constantly they should be scared, they will start to be scared.

 

So, trump has helped create his own reality and he is garnering votes because of it.

 

That's idiotic.

I watched Ted Cruz's speech at the RNC and just about threw up as the entire thing was just preying on fears, most of which were entirely unreasonable. The party has decided to craft some boogeymen and their platform is chasing the boogeymen away. Such garbage.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

I witnessed something this morning that shows the major problem in American politics.

 

Newt was being interviewed this morning on CNN. The subject of violent crime rates came up and she asked him about the accuracy of comments in the speech.

 

After some back and forth he sort of agreed with her that violent crime rates are way lower than in the 80s so the speech technically was inaccurate.

 

He immediately went to saying...."well your facts are right but people don't feel safer."

 

She said...."but the average American is safer than they were".

 

Newt....."you can stick with your facts if you want, I'll go with how people feel".

 

Here's the problem with what he said. His candidate has ran a fear mongering campaign for the last year. If you tell people constantly they should be scared, they will start to be scared.

 

So, trump has helped create his own reality and he is garnering votes because of it.

 

That's idiotic.

I watched Ted Cruz's speech at the RNC and just about threw up as the entire thing was just preying on fears, most of which were entirely unreasonable. The party has decided to craft some boogeymen and their platform is chasing the boogeymen away. Such garbage.

But....hey.....don't introduce actual facts....that might not fit the agenda.

[mrandyk]

 

 

I witnessed something this morning that shows the major problem in American politics.

 

Newt was being interviewed this morning on CNN. The subject of violent crime rates came up and she asked him about the accuracy of comments in the speech.

 

After some back and forth he sort of agreed with her that violent crime rates are way lower than in the 80s so the speech technically was inaccurate.

 

He immediately went to saying...."well your facts are right but people don't feel safer."

 

She said...."but the average American is safer than they were".

 

Newt....."you can stick with your facts if you want, I'll go with how people feel".

 

Here's the problem with what he said. His candidate has ran a fear mongering campaign for the last year. If you tell people constantly they should be scared, they will start to be scared.

 

So, trump has helped create his own reality and he is garnering votes because of it.

 

That's idiotic.

I watched Ted Cruz's speech at the RNC and just about threw up as the entire thing was just preying on fears, most of which were entirely unreasonable. The party has decided to craft some boogeymen and their platform is chasing the boogeymen away. Such garbage.

But....hey.....don't introduce actual facts....that might not fit the agenda.

 

I think at one point he said we can't let Russia and China take the internet. Where the hell did that come from?

[HuskerNation1]

 

Ezra Klein, onTrump's #MakeAmericaFearAgain platform:

 

 

These tragedies can be ameliorated by policy. Cigarettes can be taxed, alcohol regulated, addicts treated, guns made less accessible. But Trump wasnt interested in making Americans safer, and so he did not mention any of these policies. He was interested in making Americans more afraid, and so he focused on the dangers that scare us, as opposed to the ones that truly threaten us.

Jon Stewart on equality and unity:

 

Those fighting to be included in the ideal of equality are not being divisive. Those fighting to keep those people out are.

Two searing passages, I thought.

 

We live in a democracy, which comes with it the valued institution of self-determination. It also means bad actors are always trying to deploy the instruments of fear and anger to co-opt it for their own ends (as well- or poorly-intended they may be). To guard the values we hold dear in our system requires a healthy, constant vigilance. (I know those are technically Barty Crouch, Jr.'s words, hence the "healthy" qualifier )

I dont think any politician has to instill fear in the American people. All you have to do is watch the news anymore and you are bound to see some horrific incident that could happen in any of our communities. Trump is the only one talking about the fear that is very real. A poll out last week shows that Americans are more fearful now of a terrorist attack than at any point since 2003.

[BigRedBuster]

Seriously???

[Moiraine]

 

 

Ezra Klein, onTrump's #MakeAmericaFearAgain platform:

 

 

These tragedies can be ameliorated by policy. Cigarettes can be taxed, alcohol regulated, addicts treated, guns made less accessible. But Trump wasnt interested in making Americans safer, and so he did not mention any of these policies. He was interested in making Americans more afraid, and so he focused on the dangers that scare us, as opposed to the ones that truly threaten us.

Jon Stewart on equality and unity:

 

Those fighting to be included in the ideal of equality are not being divisive. Those fighting to keep those people out are.

Two searing passages, I thought.

 

We live in a democracy, which comes with it the valued institution of self-determination. It also means bad actors are always trying to deploy the instruments of fear and anger to co-opt it for their own ends (as well- or poorly-intended they may be). To guard the values we hold dear in our system requires a healthy, constant vigilance. (I know those are technically Barty Crouch, Jr.'s words, hence the "healthy" qualifier )

I dont think any politician has to instill fear in the American people. All you have to do is watch the news anymore and you are bound to see some horrific incident that could happen in any of our communities. Trump is the only one talking about the fear that is very real. A poll out last week shows that Americans are more fearful now of a terrorist attack than at any point since 2003.

I don't give a crap if people are more scared. That doesn't mean there's a real reason to be more scared. There's less murder now (including by terrorism) and less crime.

 

What makes people more scared are the anecdotal stories they see on tv. Not an increase incidents or deaths.

 

I'm completely dumbfounded by this idea that we're supposed to care about how scared people are, even if the facts show that we're safer than ever. That makes no sense at all. It seems to me if people are more scared with less reason for it, they need to seek help from a therapist/psychiatrist rather than ask the government to infringe on more rights (which is what Trump wants to do).

[zoogs]

B, I'm sorry if it wasn't clear what I was saying. Of course you need barely a touch to instill fear. It's a natural response, the kind to which we are all prone.

 

Now, then, you can encourage it, weaponize it, and use it to justify your policy goals -- or instead to tamp it down, stamp it out, and call for a rising above.

 

America has traditionally, on balance, risen above. At least I'd like to think that's true. It's not the path of least resistance. But it is, at least I would argue, the better way to go. And there should be no doubt what Trump's view about this is. Decide for yourself if you like it.