The General Election

[knapplc]

"I'm not a bigot, but I'm definitely voting for a bigot" is a pretty darned tough thing to justify. And if you openly, proudly state you're voting for a bigot then you should expect to be called on that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cue the "But Trump isn't a bigot! Show me!" responses.... 3...2...1...

[zoogs]

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/07/not-voting-for-hillary-youre-dead-to-me/

 

I don't agree with the title of this article. I do nod my head to many of its arguments. I think it's unlikely the author will follow through. But I also accept that people get very passionate about the election.

 

Perhaps it's not a national trend, but I feel like we've as a whole been subject to a lot of the passionate voters describing why a Trump vote is so urgent to them. Here's an account from the other side. I think it's worth getting both these snapshots, so our pulse is not merely on the panic and anger from one side. This is a vulnerable moment, period, in our nation's history.

 

I hope not to turn too many of our Republican friends away. This author's stance on cutting off people who don't support Hillary, it's not shared by most liberals. Certainly, while I'm happy to debate how I feel about how clear cut this choice is, I have no intention of sharing the author's sentiments about my friends who choose differently.

[Count 'Bility]

"I'm not a bigot, but I'm definitely voting for a bigot" is a pretty darned tough thing to justify. And if you openly, proudly state you're voting for a bigot then you should expect to be called on that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cue the "But Trump isn't a bigot! Show me!" responses.... 3...2...1...

So does voting for someone mean i have to agree with absolutely 100% of everything he has to offer? does the perfect candidate exist?

 

Jesus. You didnt just do this did you?

[knapplc]

 

"I'm not a bigot, but I'm definitely voting for a bigot" is a pretty darned tough thing to justify. And if you openly, proudly state you're voting for a bigot then you should expect to be called on that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cue the "But Trump isn't a bigot! Show me!" responses.... 3...2...1...

So does voting for someone mean i have to agree with absolutely 100% of everything he has to offer? does the perfect candidate exist?

 

Jesus. You didnt just do this did you?

 

 

 

 

 

So you want to vote for a candidate like Trump and not be held accountable for that vote?

 

I will stand behind every candidate I've voted for, warts and all. Obama, Obama, Kerry, Bush, Dole, Bush & Bush. I own my mistake in voting for Bush II. Own your vote or don't cast it.

[zoogs]

A perfect candidate does not exist, and certainly not in this election.

 

I'll be happy to hear an explanation of what things are important enough to you that bigotry and the empowerment of forces and policies aimed at harming minorities in this country is an acceptable side effect.

 

To me, it's not about standing wholesale behind a candidate. It's about being able to recognize and explain your priorities motivating your choice. Empirical priorities explain one's positions more accurately than self-identifying statements.

[Landlord]

A perfect candidate does not exist, and certainly not in this election.

 

I'll be happy to hear an explanation of what things are important enough to you that bigotry and the empowerment of forces and policies aimed at harming minorities in this country is an acceptable side effect.

 

To me, it's not about standing wholesale behind a candidate. It's about being able to recognize and explain your priorities motivating your choice. Empirical priorities explain one's positions more accurately than self-identifying statements.

 

 

He's pro-life!

[Count 'Bility]

I just dont see it that way. I dont see some of things he plans as harming any one group. I see things he wants to do as benefitting the country as whole. Call me an idiot. Whatever. It's how is see it. Im fine with it. you guys already have your opinion of me based on my simple vote. 3

 

and Knapp. where the hell did i say i wouldnt own my vote? sometimes you dont sound as smart as i know you have to be. Cmon man. I own my vote. But is it or is it not possible to vote for someone where you dont agree with 100% of what they stand for? You didnt answer that question. As my right to vote, I will so anyway. pages upon pages in this very thread about this being a "lesser of two evils" elections. Now why is it so all a sudden wrong for me to treat it and see it as such.

 

Oh right. it's cuz the lesser evil to me is trump. have a nice day.

 

sincerely. the racist bigot.

[Landlord]

I'd be genuinely interested in hearing specifics of what things you see that you're referencing, Count, because I definitely do not see them.

 

I see a man who has no respect for women and no room in his brain to treat them as equal, dignified human beings. Evidenced by the tic tac tape, comments about his daughter, about countless other women, multiple wives, mistresses, etc.

 

I see a man who does not view races equally. Evidenced by being found guilty in housing discrimination against minorities, comments about blacks in reference to his money/properties/business dealings/etc., support from and connection to the Ku Klux Klan and white supremacy groups, etc.

 

I see a man who does not have empathy for people with disabilities.

 

I see a man who can not ever tell the truth.

 

It goes on and on and I can provide specific examples, and enough of them to show that they aren't isolated incidents or rogue thoughts, but consistent behavior.

 

 

 

I mean, for example, you don't see things he wants as harming any one group. He said he wants to bring back stop and frisk, which was found to be unconstitutional because it was entirely racist. So there's at least, you know, one thing that would harm a specific group?

[Moiraine]

[zoogs]

To be clear, at no point have I called or am even suggesting that you are a bigot. I don't think that's the case.

 

I do think you are looking at the Jewish people who are horrified, thinking these people would destroy me if they could, and they're being empowered by Trump and saying, "Not a big deal."

 

Or the people who think "I'm going to be deported" or "My parents are going to be deported" or so on, and thinking, "Not a big deal."

 

Or the Muslisms who are watching in horror as the flames of Islamophobia and anti-Muslim violence are stoked and thinking, "Not a big deal."

 

Or the Black community that can't believe this candidate is asking for Nixonian tough-on-crime inner city policies (which themselves have a fraught history), Stop-and-Frisk, and can't believe they're watching active voter suppression efforts targeted at them by a variety of Republican-dominated legislatures...and saying "not a big deal."

 

You're very free to say the lesser of two evils, to you, is Trump. And I don't think people would, or should consider you an active bigot. On the other hand, understand that there will be a very limited extent to which you can seriously claim to want to fight against the forces of racism and anti-pluralism in America. IMO.

[Moiraine]

I think Trump respects the women he's not attracted to. I've known men who put women in two different categories and treat them completely differently.

[knapplc]

I just dont see it that way. I dont see some of things he plans as harming any one group. I see things he wants to do as benefitting the country as whole. Call me an idiot. Whatever. It's how is see it. Im fine with it. you guys already have your opinion of me based on my simple vote. 3

 

and Knapp. where the hell did i say i wouldnt own my vote? sometimes you dont sound as smart as i know you have to be. Cmon man. I own my vote. But is it or is it not possible to vote for someone where you dont agree with 100% of what they stand for? You didnt answer that question. As my right to vote, I will so anyway. pages upon pages in this very thread about this being a "lesser of two evils" elections. Now why is it so all a sudden wrong for me to treat it and see it as such.

 

Oh right. it's cuz the lesser evil to me is trump. have a nice day.

 

sincerely. the racist bigot.

 

This is not a "lesser of two evils" election. It is an election of one horribly unqualified candidate and one flawed but capable candidate.

 

Anyone voting for Trump after everything they've seen the past 18 months has put their head in the sand. Period. You cannot be a Christian man and with a good conscience vote for a man who openly advocates discrimination and misogyny.

 

You don't have to like Clinton, but you cannot as a responsible voter claim that you know Trump is qualified and will be a worthy president. A vote for Trump is a giant .!.. to the principles this country was founded on.

[knapplc]

[TAKODA]

C'mon guys;

 

Count nor anyone else here needs to explain how they came to their choice. Its the right he and anyone else has, just as all these other rights everyone leans on when it becomes convenient for their cause.

[Landlord]

C'mon guys;

 

Count nor anyone else here needs to explain how they came to their choice. Its the right he and anyone else has, just as all these other rights everyone leans on when it becomes convenient for their cause.

 

 

We're having a discussion in a politics forum on a messageboard. Of course he doesn't need to explain anything, but since we're talking about it, it's appropriate to ask. Count has very consistently not been ashamed or silent about supporting Trump for a while now - if he says things that I or others think are mistaken or misguided, it'd be pretty lame of us to just ignore it.