knapplc Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 So... Donald Trump's Campaign Manager just quit. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Interesting.... Here's a link to a CNN article about it. LINK Link to comment
ZRod Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 CNN to host Libertarian ticket for town hall next Wednesday Gary Johnson on the issues. I want this guy in the debates. He is polling at 12% right now. He needs to get to 15% to be included. I would gladly vote for him if I thought he had a fighting chance. If he can get his name out there in a few months we may have a candidate that this country isn't ashamed of. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 CNN to host Libertarian ticket for town hall next Wednesday Gary Johnson on the issues. I want this guy in the debates. He is polling at 12% right now. He needs to get to 15% to be included. I would gladly vote for him if I thought he had a fighting chance. If he can get his name out there in a few months we may have a candidate that this country isn't ashamed of. At this point in time, I'm planning on voting for him even if he doesn't have a fighting chance. I can not consciously vote for either of the other two pathetic candidates. 1 Link to comment
Red Five Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 So... Donald Trump's Campaign Manager just quit. I have a hard time thinking this will change anything. Donald is going to do what Donald wants IMO. Link to comment
ZRod Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 CNN to host Libertarian ticket for town hall next Wednesday Gary Johnson on the issues. I want this guy in the debates. He is polling at 12% right now. He needs to get to 15% to be included. I would gladly vote for him if I thought he had a fighting chance. If he can get his name out there in a few months we may have a candidate that this country isn't ashamed of. At this point in time, I'm planning on voting for him even if he doesn't have a fighting chance. I can not consciously vote for either of the other two pathetic candidates. I understand that sentiment, but I'm just not there yet. All I know is that a bigot can not lead this country. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 CNN to host Libertarian ticket for town hall next Wednesday Gary Johnson on the issues. I want this guy in the debates. He is polling at 12% right now. He needs to get to 15% to be included. I would gladly vote for him if I thought he had a fighting chance. If he can get his name out there in a few months we may have a candidate that this country isn't ashamed of. At this point in time, I'm planning on voting for him even if he doesn't have a fighting chance. I can not consciously vote for either of the other two pathetic candidates. I understand that sentiment, but I'm just not there yet. All I know is that a bigot can not lead this country. I'm assuming if a pollster called you, you would say you are voting for Clinton.....because Trump needs to be defeated. I understand your sentiment......many people feel the same way going both directions. That's exactly the problem though in trying to get someone taken seriously that is outside the Dem and Repub circle. There are millions of Americans that don't want either Clinton or Trump. But, they won't (at least this early on) claim to be strongly considering someone like Johnson because..."That other candidate needs to be stopped". I'm saying...."STOP THE MADNESS". Let's get someone else in the running that like you said...."a candidate that this country isn't ashamed of". That starts with opening up people's minds early in the game...like NOW. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 As of right now, there are more independent voters than either main party. That tells me that over 40% of Americans want something other than what the Dems or Republicans are selling. It's time for something else. LINK Link to comment
ZRod Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 If a pollster called me you're right I probably would have said that. But I will no longer, I'll say Gary and let the cards fall where they may. If he has a chance he's got my vote. Look something changed someone's mind in the P&R forum for once!!!! 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 If a pollster called me you're right I probably would have said that. But I will no longer, I'll say Gary and let the cards fall where they may. If he has a chance he's got my vote. Look something changed someone's mind in the P&R forum for once!!!! 1 Link to comment
zoogs Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 If a third party actually became big enough, to unseat one of the top two, it would require assembling and then maintaining a broad coalition. The result of which is they will put out candidates that many in their coalition don't agree with. The parties aren't "bad" because they're parties, or because of the system. They're "bad" because they're big, and represent so many people that individuals can't possibly be covered on every issue. If we had many, smaller parties all in play, then perhaps we could get there. The other side of that small parties build coalitions anyway, and so voters are still voting in favor of coalitions that parties have decided to build. The advantage, it seems, is that those are more flexible and quicker to change. An independent or third party president in the office while the two parties maintain their stranglehold is an interesting idea. Without influence in Congress, it seems like there'd be very little he could actually do to push his agenda. Both, rather than one party, would obstruct him. Although I don't think that would be the worst thing ever. If a viable third party emerged for POTUS this campaign, the one I'd probably support is Green Party's Dr. Jill Stein. I don't know much about them, to be fair, but as much as libertarianism light appeals to me, I'm a bit turned off by Libertarian 's privatized healthcare (and everything), no Dept. of Education, no gun restrictions, Private Industry Will Protect the Environment, no market regulation, and in general ideals-over-pragmatism vision of a tiny government utopia. There's some interesting discussion here most of which I've yet to read, but food for thought: http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/all/2016/05/the-hunger-for-a-third-party-in-2016/482013/ Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 The only people holding back a third party (or many smaller parties) is the themselves that are caught up in this idea of...."a vote for someone other than an R or a D is a wasted vote". I have come to realize that it's just the opposite. If I were to vote R or D, THAT would be a wasted vote because I would be doing my part to ensure that an absolute pathetic candidate for POTUS gets into office. The problem with this whole thing is that it literally will take millions of people to come to the same realization as I have for this to really change. However, I refuse to be a part of forcing the status quo to continue. I personally think that if someone like Johnson would win, you wouldn't have Rs and Ds constantly being obstructionists, you would see them clamoring for the same votes he got so it would draw them both towards the middle and changing. Link to comment
zoogs Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 In my view, the current Republican Party needs to burn down. Their coalition is coming apart at the seams. This isn't a bad thing. Out of the ashes, something better can emerge. I personally think that if someone like Johnson would win, you wouldn't have Rs and Ds constantly being obstructionists, you would see them clamoring for the same votes he got so it would draw them both towards the middle and changing. I think that's fanciful as long as they hold onto their coalitions. Johnson would be at the mercy of Congress, and not the other way around. He will have to align with the party that will give him what he wants, in exchange for concessions. And if your desire is really to see parties move towards the *middle*, then that is extremely status quo. There are many pitfalls of the current system; not being mainstream is not one of them. The problem with this whole thing is that it literally will take millions of people to come to the same realization as I have for this to really change. Yeah, if millions of people came together and had the same opinions about everything, then things would change, and all politicians would represent us perfectly. I think it comes down more or less to this: 2 big parties, or many small parties? Neither will really give everyone everything they want, as long as people have such diverse and opposing views. It's not that they wouldn't represent us. They do, and would. But we're sort of terrible sometimes. :/ Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 It really would take a special kind of leader to pull it off and I have no clue if Johnson is that kind of leader. But, let's pretend that he wins the general election with 50% of the vote. That means probably the Clinton and Trump may have ended up with around 25% each. The Dems and Repubs are going to say..WTF???? Now, if Johnson could keep that momentum in the narrative leading into his his term, there would be a large portion of the population pushing their own representatives to be more like him. Now, one thing is for sure in politics, almost all politicians will be heavily influenced by what they are hearing from the majority of their constituents. As for the "middle" and status quo. Hmmmm.....maybe middle is not the correct term. Maybe the correct way to put it would be to draw them somewhere other than on that direct line between extreme left and extreme right. Link to comment
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