Islam's "Grey Zone"

[The Dude]

This was awesome.

 

[knapplc]

 

 

It's important to note these are still Muslims. They're not perverting the religion in any way, they're simply more devout in their belief of the religion. They take it more literally. Saying they're perverting the religion is not helpful to the discussion.[/size]

I think Muslisms would disagree.[/size]

 

 

What gives Muslims and not Islamists the authority to make that claim? Just the fact that they're the ones that we seem to get along with the most?

 

The same thing that gives Catholics & Lutherans the authority to claim they're the "real" Christians and not Westboro.

[zoogs]

What gives Muslims and not Islamists the authority to make that claim? Just the fact that they're the ones that we seem to get along with the most?

What gives us the 'authority' to make the claim that Islamists are proper Muslisms?

 

Any religion is constantly having internal conversations about what is heresy and what is orthodoxy. For what purpose other than the repudiation of Islam as a bad religion prone to extremism does it serve to, as outsiders, declare that the fringe is part of the orthodoxy?

[Landlord]

 

What gives Muslims and not Islamists the authority to make that claim? Just the fact that they're the ones that we seem to get along with the most?

What gives us the 'authority' to make the claim that Islamists are proper Muslisms?

 

Any religion is constantly having internal conversations about what is heresy and what is orthodoxy. For what purpose other than the repudiation of Islam as a bad religion prone to extremism does it serve to, as outsiders, declare that the fringe is part of the orthodoxy?

 

 

 

As a disclaimer I agree with you. That being said, I'd say that in the same way that some insist on not using the term radical Islam because of the way it can paint too broad of a brush, a lot of people would argue that, admittedly to a lesser extent, the same can be said of insisting in the reverse.

 

Labels and categorizations are tricky.

[The Dude]

 

What gives Muslims and not Islamists the authority to make that claim? Just the fact that they're the ones that we seem to get along with the most?

What gives us the 'authority' to make the claim that Islamists are proper Muslisms?Any religion is constantly having internal conversations about what is heresy and what is orthodoxy. For what purpose other than the repudiation of Islam as a bad religion prone to extremism does it serve to, as outsiders, declare that the fringe is part of the orthodoxy?

This is a great point. I'll be more mindful of this in the future.

 

To me it's not about declaring them proper Muslims, in fact I'm advocating calling them Islamists instead. It's about understanding the process of becoming radicalized (but remembering many are born into Islamism). It's about understanding what it means to be an Islamist. In that regard secular Muslims may not be the best people to gain insight from. Former Islamists probably have a better understanding of that process.

 

The unfortunate truth may be the fringe might not be as fringy as we would like to think it is. Ahmed indicated it can't really be categorized as the fringe at all. He described it as a significant strain of Islam.

 

Part of the trouble may be that there's no authoritative clergy in Islam to help clarify what should be considered orthodoxy.

[Danny Bateman]

CNN doing an interview with a grieving mother and daughter about the suicide of their son who died shortly after arriving for Marine Corps training.

 

There's an ongoing probe of 15 drill instructors at his facility for charges of hazing and assault. Oh, and he's a Pakistani American named Raheel Siddiqui.

 

I know this sh#t goes on in the military. I get that it's a very tough environment. But it speaks to the need for greater mental health treatment and the fact that this anti-Muslim sentiment is present in all walks of life. One of the instructors had a history of doing this to other Muslims.

[zoogs]

 

 

What gives Muslims and not Islamists the authority to make that claim? Just the fact that they're the ones that we seem to get along with the most?

What gives us the 'authority' to make the claim that Islamists are proper Muslisms?Any religion is constantly having internal conversations about what is heresy and what is orthodoxy. For what purpose other than the repudiation of Islam as a bad religion prone to extremism does it serve to, as outsiders, declare that the fringe is part of the orthodoxy?

 

This is a great point. I'll be more mindful of this in the future.

 

To me it's not about declaring them proper Muslims, in fact I'm advocating calling them Islamists instead. It's about understanding the process of becoming radicalized (but remembering many are born into Islamism). It's about understanding what it means to be an Islamist. In that regard secular Muslims may not be the best people to gain insight from. Former Islamists probably have a better understanding of that process.

 

The unfortunate truth may be the fringe might not be as fringy as we would like to think it is. Ahmed indicated it can't really be categorized as the fringe at all. He described it as a significant strain of Islam.

 

Part of the trouble may be that there's no authoritative clergy in Islam to help clarify what should be considered orthodoxy.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Dude. I missed this.

 

Here's an article from the NYT on a topic that I think has been brought up a few times before: Saudi Arabia's cultivation of said strain of Islam.

 

For decades, Saudi Arabia has recklessly financed and promoted a harsh and intolerant Wahhabi version of Islam around the world in a way that is, quite predictably, producing terrorists. And there’s no better example of this Saudi recklessness than in the Balkans.

I think greater stability in the ME is one key pillar upon which any reduction in radicalism must rest. But that seems a hard to reach goal as long as efforts like these continue.

[huskerfan2000]

[Danny Bateman]

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/05/20/exp-wthu-why-anjem-choudary-hates-us.cnn/video/playlists/why-they-hate-us/

 

^^^ Choudary is a fringe nutjob. He is hated in the UK and receives little mainstream support from Muslims there. He's both an Al Queda and an ISIS sympathizer. He's praised the September 11 attacks.

 

He's not a very good representation of most Muslims.

[ZRod]

This is like posting a video from the Westborough nut jobs and claiming they speak for the majority of christians.

[huskerfan2000]

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