The Obama Legacy

[BigRedBuster]

I think the vast majority of Americans support and appreciate what police officers do. My niece just graduated the academy in Louisiana to become an officer. Supporting them doing a good job is vital to all of us.

 

My issue in all of this is I have many friends who just blindly supports everything police and do and refuse to acknowledge that even though the vast majority of police officers and departments are good, there are still major issues with some officers or department's.

 

I was on a vacation recently with a group of friends this summer and this topic came up. They absolutely jumped down my throat when I even suggested that there are some issues that need to be addressed.....and that was after I had made a number of comments that supported police officers.

 

It's another one of these issues in our society that has become a..."you're either with us or against us". That typically is not the way to continually improve.

[BigRedBuster]

 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[84HuskerLaw]

Obama's legacy? Perhaps it has been clearly described by other comments on this board but I have not read every single statement or opinion thereon. But:

 

Obama himself summed up one major consequence of his Presidency just in the last few days when he said "America is becoming a 'browner' nation" suggesting that with the mass influx of Mexicans and other latinos, the color tone of the skin has gotten darker. Not something to really hang one's hat on as far as major accomplishments of a positive nature. Mexicans and the vast majority of foreigners entering the United States over the last 230 years or so of its history have been quite positive contributors to our society. The problem is there are simply 15 or 20 million too many! We don't have room economically, socially, politically and culturally to absorb and assimilate into our unique American culture. Being American is different than being African American or Mexican American or even Irish American. We permit immigration because of NEED and not for any other reason. America is not a great big social 'experiment' or something to be tampered with in a reckless way

 

Historically America has seen substantial immigration (nearly 100% of which was done legally through the established naturalization procedures in an orderly and limited and controlled manner btw) of groups from various places around the world. In large numbers, problems almost always arose and social and political and cultural and even legal consequences followed. However, nearly all those who came in the past, did so for the very purpose of becoming Americans and to live the American dream. They did not come to live the "Mexican American" or the "Irish American" or the Chinese American dream. They came to BECOME Americans with all the rights, virtues, benefits and responsibilities and advantages thereof.

 

I trace the beginnings of the destabilization of American society and culture to the concoction of the terms "multiculturalism" and the deliberate attempts to seperate and divide Americans into racial and ethic groups and to pit them against one another for political purposes. To drive political wedges in between racial and ethic and cultural 'groups' is to sew the seeds of disintegration and destruction of American society and ultimately to tear us apart as 'one Nation'. We are the "United States of America" and that name means a great deal more than just a convenient name for our country. The Constitution was written carefully in order to create a bond or 'union' of the several states for the common defense and to ensure domestic tranquility.

 

In many ways, Obama's legacy has been to create fractures and division and to de-unify and disintegrate our culture. This is very dangerous to the health, welfare, safety and security of us all. Whether Obama intended this as his legacy (about half of our voting population believes so) or not, it is in fact a big part of whatever legacy he leaves to future Americans to wrestle with. Hopefully, the bonds that have kept this nation together will be repaired and restored soon. Lord knows we can't stand much more division and political hate between liberals and conservatives. If Californians vote to leave the union, I would say let them go. In fact, maybe Trump can simply sell California back to Mexico to fund the wall and then add a thousand or so miles if needed. LOL

[zoogs]

increase federal funding for local law enforcement to have access to funds to help assist them with building community programs. Re-open the door to have access to equipment necessary to deal with the changing environment we operate in today, i.e. terrorist attacks, civil unrest, etc. appoint justices to the supreme court that will protect rights, but not make our jobs harder as officers.

I see. So the problem is that Obama has not done these things. I can't really speak to too many of these issues myself. They of course have been invisible to me because I look at, for example, the appointment of justices not through the lens of whether they are making police jobs easier.

 

I certainly don't know the status of federal funding for local law enforcement, and I had no idea that the equipment access door for police was shut (though I do know police militarization is fiercely contested in other corners, so this would not surprise me -- from my vantage point, I may even have applauded it as it happened).

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

 

 

I'm not interested in discussing my justification for voting for Trump. The sky has been falling for some since he won the presidency and what I say there won't matter. That's okay, I voted for him, I had several reasons why. Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards law enforcement and has acknowledged that we are being attacked on several different levels. He's also taken the time to contact widows of fallen officer personally to extend his condolences. Something that would be considered abnormal in an Obama presidency. It's the facts and something that is important to me.

I'm not asking you to be defensive, to be clear. I haven't followed this discussion all the way back, and I'm just asking you to support an assertion you freely made: that Obama, while saying the right things, did the wrong ones regarding law enforcement, and that Trump was different in this particular regard.

 

Like, when you say "Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards LEO" -- as you have before -- this points to a difference in saying the right things. But you specifically emphasized that Obama also said the right things politically, and that words don't count, only actions.

 

So as far as actions go, it's abnormal for Obama to contact widows of fallen officers personally. It's normal for Trump to do this. Is this a fair summary of your stance? Are there any other major contributing factors, or actions you will expect from the new administration?

 

I'm very sorry if you see this as piling on. Only trying to understand your perspective more comprehensively.

 

Words are the only thing I have to go by with Trump at this point. He isn't the sitting President yet so what can he really do? He didn't get the largest police unions support for no reason. He takes time to speak with us at his events, take photos with us, speak about what we're dealing with while he was on the campaign trail. And yes, he's called some widows of falling police officers. Now, if he starts showing that he only used us as puppets in his show, then I'll most certainly speak out about that. I want action, not words..........increase federal funding for local law enforcement to have access to funds to help assist them with building community programs. Re-open the door to have access to equipment necessary to deal with the changing environment we operate in today, i.e. terrorist attacks, civil unrest, etc. appoint justices to the supreme court that will protect rights, but not make our jobs harder as officers.

 

Obama has said things during his speeches that we see are in support of us and then we'll hear a back handed comment that enrages us. Actions of things he's done to irritate us and make us wonder if he even supports us are things like sending white house staff to Michael Brown's funeral, appointing a lawyer and financial backer of a cop killer to a civil rights post, not speaking out for days, weeks, ever when numerous cops are killed in a few days, not inflame racial tensions between police and the community they serve with some of the words he's using in the discussion, see the Dallas Police Officer's Funeral as an example.

 

 

So some of the things Obama has done/hasn't done have offended you as a police officer?

 

Must be difficult for a politician to upset or offend you like that. Would you consider standing in solidarity with some of the people that Trump has openly mocked/offended? POW's, the disabled and women come to mind.

 

I get it, maybe more than you know and more than I'm willing to let you know. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me, not asking for that, just stating where I'm coming from is all.

[NM11046]

Thank you BRI. I appreciate your opinions and candor very much on this board.

[zoogs]

So some of the things Obama has done/hasn't done have offended you as a police officer?

Plenty of things Trump has done and said has offended me as a person, on many different levels.

 

It's a good reason -- we want people who represent our interests.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

increase federal funding for local law enforcement to have access to funds to help assist them with building community programs. Re-open the door to have access to equipment necessary to deal with the changing environment we operate in today, i.e. terrorist attacks, civil unrest, etc. appoint justices to the supreme court that will protect rights, but not make our jobs harder as officers.

I see. So the problem is that Obama has not done these things. I can't really speak to too many of these issues myself. They of course have been invisible to me because I look at, for example, the appointment of justices not through the lens of whether they are making police jobs easier.

 

I certainly don't know the status of federal funding for local law enforcement, and I had no idea that the equipment access door for police was shut (though I do know police militarization is fiercely contested in other corners, so this would not surprise me -- from my vantage point, I may even have applauded it as it happened).

 

He shut the door on access to equipment necessary to deal with terroristic events and what some would consider "military type" equipment. The problem is this isn't Mayberry anymore and the nature of the world we live in now post 9/11 is completely different. We have to be prepared to deal with certain things. I certainly will never advocate for doing a traffic stop on your average citizen with an armored vehicle, but those tools are needed at least as an option for some departments if the proverbial s*&t hits the fan. Our department was even cautious with the color of the vehicle that we chose for some time due to how it may be perceived by the public. We didn't want to instill fear in the citizens we served by picking a black and white vehicle, so we picked a plain white vehicle. I don't necessarily agree that it matters to your average citizen, but I may be wrong.

 

I have not seen a huge increase in federal funding for community based programs that law enforcement agencies can have access to that can help build a strong community/department bond at this point. I'm middle management though so knowing what is out there as options with my position within my department is limited at times, so I could be wrong. It's just an idea for some departments to get a "shot in the arm" to their funding to maybe start a program to help build community trust. Our department has a fantastic reputation within our community, but it's taken a lot of time and a lot of work to get it there. Our department is not without some negative history, we dealt with it swiftly and firmly, but the damage was still done, we needed to ensure the public that isn't the norm for our agency and will not be tolerated.

 

When I speak of the Supreme Court I certainly want justices in place that will preserve our rights and not take those away. When I say make our jobs easier it doesn't mean take rights away at all, not saying you're saying that just explaining further. It just means if the court leans too far to the liberal side it makes things pretty difficult for us with some of the decisions they come down with. I personally don't care for a far conservative leaning government like we're about to see. I like checks and balances so I'm slightly concerned with what we'll see from a republican controlled government.

[zoogs]

I just want to let you know that your response is very appreciated, BRI. I learned a lot!

 

I mean, for example, I can oppose the idea of "police militarization" in concept but it's one that in practice I know little about, or even the specific for/against arguments. Kind of the same way with body cameras, and so on. I used to be for them in a default sort of way, but I've read alternative views and now I'm at the least ambivalent.

 

So, I think this is a terrific exchange.

 

--

To elaborate slightly, one thing I do agree with is the concern people had about the police response after the Boston Marathon bombings. On the one hand I can see why that's been developed as best practice. On the other, man. It's quite the different world -- everyone shelters in place, law enforcement is going through houses without warrants. It's not that I want police to be underequipped going up against potential bad guys. Sure, at this point who knows where of all the households and apartments in the greater Boston area the Tsarnaev kid is holing up.

 

On SCOTUS, I feel they just need to get things right with regard to the constitution. On the specifics I'd probably be lost -- I'm aware of a variety of search/seizure type cases but I'd have to read up on those decisions more before I can speak to them.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I just want to let you know that your response is very appreciated, BRI. I learned a lot!

 

I mean, for example, I can oppose the idea of "police militarization" in concept but it's one that in practice I know little about, or even the specific for/against arguments. Kind of the same way with body cameras, and so on. I used to be for them in a default sort of way, but I've read alternative views and now I'm at the least ambivalent.

 

So, I think this is a terrific exchange.

 

--

To elaborate slightly, one thing I do agree with is the concern people had about the police response after the Boston Marathon bombings. On the one hand I can see why that's been developed as best practice. On the other, man. It's quite the different world -- everyone shelters in place, law enforcement is going through houses without warrants. It's not that I want police to be underequipped going up against potential bad guys. Sure, at this point who knows where of all the households and apartments in the greater Boston area the Tsarnaev kid is holing up.

 

On SCOTUS, I feel they just need to get things right with regard to the constitution. On the specifics I'd probably be lost -- I'm aware of a variety of search/seizure type cases but I'd have to read up on those decisions more before I can speak to them.

And for me as a citizen, I'm not sure I'd be okay with the police having unlimited power and having the ability to do whatever they wanted. I like the checks and balances, but understand rare circumstances exist where it could be justified that police did X in certain situations. Small decisions by the supreme court lead to us having to change some of the things we do on the road in reference to searches and seizures. Some of those decisions make sense, others make you scratch your head and then you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get anything done. Obviously their decisions affect us all so they have a huge responsibility and I wouldn't want their jobs.

 

OWI's for example are terrible to deal with in the State of Iowa. That's not the U.S. Supreme Courts fault, but regardless the courts made it that way. That makes it difficult to motivate officers to enforce at times due to all the hoops you have to jump through to prosecute one. Doesn't mean we don't do the job, but it's become a giant circus in my mind and seems to be for no reason other than money.

[zoogs]

 

Thanks -- appreciate your insight!

[Fru]

 

 

 

 

I'm not interested in discussing my justification for voting for Trump. The sky has been falling for some since he won the presidency and what I say there won't matter. That's okay, I voted for him, I had several reasons why. Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards law enforcement and has acknowledged that we are being attacked on several different levels. He's also taken the time to contact widows of fallen officer personally to extend his condolences. Something that would be considered abnormal in an Obama presidency. It's the facts and something that is important to me.

I'm not asking you to be defensive, to be clear. I haven't followed this discussion all the way back, and I'm just asking you to support an assertion you freely made: that Obama, while saying the right things, did the wrong ones regarding law enforcement, and that Trump was different in this particular regard.

 

Like, when you say "Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards LEO" -- as you have before -- this points to a difference in saying the right things. But you specifically emphasized that Obama also said the right things politically, and that words don't count, only actions.

 

So as far as actions go, it's abnormal for Obama to contact widows of fallen officers personally. It's normal for Trump to do this. Is this a fair summary of your stance? Are there any other major contributing factors, or actions you will expect from the new administration?

 

I'm very sorry if you see this as piling on. Only trying to understand your perspective more comprehensively.

 

Words are the only thing I have to go by with Trump at this point. He isn't the sitting President yet so what can he really do? He didn't get the largest police unions support for no reason. He takes time to speak with us at his events, take photos with us, speak about what we're dealing with while he was on the campaign trail. And yes, he's called some widows of falling police officers. Now, if he starts showing that he only used us as puppets in his show, then I'll most certainly speak out about that. I want action, not words..........increase federal funding for local law enforcement to have access to funds to help assist them with building community programs. Re-open the door to have access to equipment necessary to deal with the changing environment we operate in today, i.e. terrorist attacks, civil unrest, etc. appoint justices to the supreme court that will protect rights, but not make our jobs harder as officers.

 

Obama has said things during his speeches that we see are in support of us and then we'll hear a back handed comment that enrages us. Actions of things he's done to irritate us and make us wonder if he even supports us are things like sending white house staff to Michael Brown's funeral, appointing a lawyer and financial backer of a cop killer to a civil rights post, not speaking out for days, weeks, ever when numerous cops are killed in a few days, not inflame racial tensions between police and the community they serve with some of the words he's using in the discussion, see the Dallas Police Officer's Funeral as an example.

 

 

So some of the things Obama has done/hasn't done have offended you as a police officer?

 

Must be difficult for a politician to upset or offend you like that. Would you consider standing in solidarity with some of the people that Trump has openly mocked/offended? POW's, the disabled and women come to mind.

 

I get it, maybe more than you know and more than I'm willing to let you know. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me, not asking for that, just stating where I'm coming from is all.

 

 

I can appreciate where anyone is coming from, however I don't think you got the point of my post.

 

Not liking Obama for doing/not doing something that resulted in you being offended, and then you turn around and vote for the candidate that has employed exceedingly offensive rhetoric and is openly supported by Nazi's and the KKK, arguably two of the most offensive organizations on Earth. I have trouble reconciling how someone can come to that conclusion.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not interested in discussing my justification for voting for Trump. The sky has been falling for some since he won the presidency and what I say there won't matter. That's okay, I voted for him, I had several reasons why. Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards law enforcement and has acknowledged that we are being attacked on several different levels. He's also taken the time to contact widows of fallen officer personally to extend his condolences. Something that would be considered abnormal in an Obama presidency. It's the facts and something that is important to me.

I'm not asking you to be defensive, to be clear. I haven't followed this discussion all the way back, and I'm just asking you to support an assertion you freely made: that Obama, while saying the right things, did the wrong ones regarding law enforcement, and that Trump was different in this particular regard.

 

Like, when you say "Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards LEO" -- as you have before -- this points to a difference in saying the right things. But you specifically emphasized that Obama also said the right things politically, and that words don't count, only actions.

 

So as far as actions go, it's abnormal for Obama to contact widows of fallen officers personally. It's normal for Trump to do this. Is this a fair summary of your stance? Are there any other major contributing factors, or actions you will expect from the new administration?

 

I'm very sorry if you see this as piling on. Only trying to understand your perspective more comprehensively.

 

Words are the only thing I have to go by with Trump at this point. He isn't the sitting President yet so what can he really do? He didn't get the largest police unions support for no reason. He takes time to speak with us at his events, take photos with us, speak about what we're dealing with while he was on the campaign trail. And yes, he's called some widows of falling police officers. Now, if he starts showing that he only used us as puppets in his show, then I'll most certainly speak out about that. I want action, not words..........increase federal funding for local law enforcement to have access to funds to help assist them with building community programs. Re-open the door to have access to equipment necessary to deal with the changing environment we operate in today, i.e. terrorist attacks, civil unrest, etc. appoint justices to the supreme court that will protect rights, but not make our jobs harder as officers.

 

Obama has said things during his speeches that we see are in support of us and then we'll hear a back handed comment that enrages us. Actions of things he's done to irritate us and make us wonder if he even supports us are things like sending white house staff to Michael Brown's funeral, appointing a lawyer and financial backer of a cop killer to a civil rights post, not speaking out for days, weeks, ever when numerous cops are killed in a few days, not inflame racial tensions between police and the community they serve with some of the words he's using in the discussion, see the Dallas Police Officer's Funeral as an example.

 

 

So some of the things Obama has done/hasn't done have offended you as a police officer?

 

Must be difficult for a politician to upset or offend you like that. Would you consider standing in solidarity with some of the people that Trump has openly mocked/offended? POW's, the disabled and women come to mind.

 

I get it, maybe more than you know and more than I'm willing to let you know. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me, not asking for that, just stating where I'm coming from is all.

 

 

I can appreciate where anyone is coming from, however I don't think you got the point of my post.

 

Not liking Obama for doing/not doing something that resulted in you being offended, and then you turn around and vote for the candidate that has employed exceedingly offensive rhetoric and is openly supported by Nazi's and the KKK, arguably two of the most offensive organizations on Earth. I have trouble reconciling how someone can come to that conclusion.

 

No, I got the point of your post, you aren't in my shoes, just like I'm not in yours. I understand the situation and I'm not here to justify my vote for Trump. Like I've said in several posts, I had my reasons for voting for him. This is a perfect example of why I said months ago Trump supporters can't come out and say they are Trump supporters. Because now we have to justify why we voted for him or supported him and now it's perceived we're bigots. I had my reasons and I chose my candidate just like everyone else did. I thought Hilary was a disgusting individual..............so we had two disgusting individuals to pick from..............so I chose the one who supports the police.............she doesn't and came across more of the same as Obama from my perspective. It's a personal thing for me, I don't care how my vote affects so and so down the street, it's personal for me as it should be. So and so down the street isn't going to care about how they vote for the president affects me and rightfully so. I'm not seeing why that's so difficult to understand at this point.

[Fru]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not interested in discussing my justification for voting for Trump. The sky has been falling for some since he won the presidency and what I say there won't matter. That's okay, I voted for him, I had several reasons why. Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards law enforcement and has acknowledged that we are being attacked on several different levels. He's also taken the time to contact widows of fallen officer personally to extend his condolences. Something that would be considered abnormal in an Obama presidency. It's the facts and something that is important to me.

I'm not asking you to be defensive, to be clear. I haven't followed this discussion all the way back, and I'm just asking you to support an assertion you freely made: that Obama, while saying the right things, did the wrong ones regarding law enforcement, and that Trump was different in this particular regard.

 

Like, when you say "Trump has shown a huge amount of respect in his speeches towards LEO" -- as you have before -- this points to a difference in saying the right things. But you specifically emphasized that Obama also said the right things politically, and that words don't count, only actions.

 

So as far as actions go, it's abnormal for Obama to contact widows of fallen officers personally. It's normal for Trump to do this. Is this a fair summary of your stance? Are there any other major contributing factors, or actions you will expect from the new administration?

 

I'm very sorry if you see this as piling on. Only trying to understand your perspective more comprehensively.

 

Words are the only thing I have to go by with Trump at this point. He isn't the sitting President yet so what can he really do? He didn't get the largest police unions support for no reason. He takes time to speak with us at his events, take photos with us, speak about what we're dealing with while he was on the campaign trail. And yes, he's called some widows of falling police officers. Now, if he starts showing that he only used us as puppets in his show, then I'll most certainly speak out about that. I want action, not words..........increase federal funding for local law enforcement to have access to funds to help assist them with building community programs. Re-open the door to have access to equipment necessary to deal with the changing environment we operate in today, i.e. terrorist attacks, civil unrest, etc. appoint justices to the supreme court that will protect rights, but not make our jobs harder as officers.

 

Obama has said things during his speeches that we see are in support of us and then we'll hear a back handed comment that enrages us. Actions of things he's done to irritate us and make us wonder if he even supports us are things like sending white house staff to Michael Brown's funeral, appointing a lawyer and financial backer of a cop killer to a civil rights post, not speaking out for days, weeks, ever when numerous cops are killed in a few days, not inflame racial tensions between police and the community they serve with some of the words he's using in the discussion, see the Dallas Police Officer's Funeral as an example.

 

 

So some of the things Obama has done/hasn't done have offended you as a police officer?

 

Must be difficult for a politician to upset or offend you like that. Would you consider standing in solidarity with some of the people that Trump has openly mocked/offended? POW's, the disabled and women come to mind.

 

I get it, maybe more than you know and more than I'm willing to let you know. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me, not asking for that, just stating where I'm coming from is all.

 

 

I can appreciate where anyone is coming from, however I don't think you got the point of my post.

 

Not liking Obama for doing/not doing something that resulted in you being offended, and then you turn around and vote for the candidate that has employed exceedingly offensive rhetoric and is openly supported by Nazi's and the KKK, arguably two of the most offensive organizations on Earth. I have trouble reconciling how someone can come to that conclusion.

 

No, I got the point of your post, you aren't in my shoes, just like I'm not in yours. I understand the situation and I'm not here to justify my vote for Trump. Like I've said in several posts, I had my reasons for voting for him. This is a perfect example of why I said months ago Trump supporters can't come out and say they are Trump supporters. Because now we have to justify why we voted for him or supported him and now it's perceived we're bigots. I had my reasons and I chose my candidate just like everyone else did. I thought Hilary was a disgusting individual..............so we had two disgusting individuals to pick from..............so I chose the one who supports the police.............she doesn't and came across more of the same as Obama from my perspective. It's a personal thing for me, I don't care how my vote affects so and so down the street, it's personal for me as it should be. So and so down the street isn't going to care about how they vote for the president affects me and rightfully so. I'm not seeing why that's so difficult to understand at this point.

 

 

For the record, I didn't call you a bigot, nor was I implying that you were one. However, your candidate has the undying support of Neo Nazis and the KKK and that apparently didn't bother you enough to vote for someone else, which ties into the second bolded part where you say you don't care how your vote affects others. That's really the essence, in my opinion, of the Trump voter.

 

You can recognize that his policy proposals are unconstitutional. You can hear his disparaging remarks about POW's. You can watch him mock a disabled individual. But ultimately, you don't care. Either you don't care because "Hey, doesn't affect me" or that kind of behavior simply isn't alarming to you.