Trump's America

[knapplc]

Look, nobody is saying any of these racist words or actions are okay. I feel confident saying we all find them appalling. And yes, the election of DJT will embolden some people to do these things. There are people who voted for Trump for the wrong reasons, just like there are people who voted for Hillary or Obama for the wrong reasons. Those people may feel their repugnant hatred has now been validated. But there are also people who voted for these people for the right reasons. Lets try to avoid labelling those people as racist enablers or approvers. I think it does somewhat of a disservice to the cause to now link every anecdotal story of repulsive racist behavior to DJT. These asshats have always been among us and they have always engaged in this behavior. There may be some racists whom this electon now spurs to more overt actions. Let's all shout them down, just as we should no matter who is/was President, no matter when or where it occurs. But please don't mistake the acknowledgement that these things have and will always happen as some sort of approval or ignoring of these actions. I think we as a society can keep a lid on it as long as we don't go overboard with linking every racist action to the result of DJT being elected.

Let's make something perfectly clear. We knew enough about Donald Trump to know what he would do as president. He's now making those fears a reality.

 

Based on what we knew before the election, there were no "right reasons" to vote for Donald Trump. This is something people who voted against Hillary will tell themselves, but it is a fallacy.

 

If you don't want to be labeled a racist enabler, don't vote for a racist.

 

If you don't want to be labeled a climate destruction enabler, don't vote for a denier of science.

 

If you don't want to be labeled a xenophobe, don't vote for a xenophobe.

 

Get the picture? I can go on - there's plenty more.

 

But let's stop, right now, with this "I shouldn't be labeled any of these things because I voted for the guy who said he would do all these things." Life doesn't work that way. It's called abetting, and while you may not have robbed the bank, you drove the getaway car.

 

Own your vote.

[Pedro Guerrero]

So does that mean everyone that voted for Hillary should be known as a truth bender that will publicly shame someone that accuses their spouse of extra marital affairs?

I just want to make sure because I think you covered the Trump supporters, so I just want to know where the Hillary supporters are coming from.

 

Don’t get me started on those poop slinging Harambe people.

[knapplc]

So does that mean everyone that voted for Hillary should be known as a truth bender that will publicly shame someone that accuses their spouse of extra marital affairs?

I just want to make sure because I think you covered the Trump supporters, so I just want to know where the Hillary supporters are coming from.

 

Don’t get me started on those poop slinging Harambe people.

 

I own my Hillary vote, lock, stock & barrel.

[HuskerNBigD]

 

Chili's apologizes after manager takes vet's meal

 

(CNN)US Army veteran Ernest Walker went to his local Chili's restaurant for a hamburger. Instead, he was denied a meal after an altercation over his service record.

The chain has since apologized.

 

Chili's has a policy of providing veterans a free meal every Veterans Day.

 

Walker said he was disrespected at the restaurant's Cedar Hill, Texas, location when a man wearing a Donald Trump shirt interrupted his meal and challenged his service record, the veteran posted on his Facebook page.

 

"He said he was in Germany, and that they did not let blacks serve over there," Walker said, detailing what sparked Friday's incident.

 

Walker told CNN's Don Lemon the Trump supporter made him feel like was a slave.

 

"He really made me feel like I was almost like a slave who had to show paperwork to show my freedom," he said.

 

"I do believe that I was singled out, as a black man, in that restaurant. And were it not for the past temperature of the nation -- of this election -- you know I don't think he would be as emboldened to approach me in the manner that he did and just outright label me, you know, as a black man trying to steal food."

 

Trump's America.

 

 

I think this is a combination of more than just Trump's America, it also the fact that the other vet, who questioned this man's service, was a flat out racists. The Ticket, a local Dallas sports radio station, was talking about this yesterday and it's just sickening. The trump shirt wearing S.O.B. served in WWII and seems to still have the same prejudiced views that were popular in that era.

 

sh#t like that gives a bad name to the Republican party, at least those of us that realize there is no excuse to act in this manner. The parents of all these middle and high schoolers that are running their mouth also need to have a coming to jesus moments with their kids and explain there is no excuse, whatsoever for their behavior. Unfortunately, they probably picked up the nonsense from their parents.

[JJ Husker]

 

Look, nobody is saying any of these racist words or actions are okay. I feel confident saying we all find them appalling. And yes, the election of DJT will embolden some people to do these things. There are people who voted for Trump for the wrong reasons, just like there are people who voted for Hillary or Obama for the wrong reasons. Those people may feel their repugnant hatred has now been validated. But there are also people who voted for these people for the right reasons. Lets try to avoid labelling those people as racist enablers or approvers. I think it does somewhat of a disservice to the cause to now link every anecdotal story of repulsive racist behavior to DJT. These asshats have always been among us and they have always engaged in this behavior. There may be some racists whom this electon now spurs to more overt actions. Let's all shout them down, just as we should no matter who is/was President, no matter when or where it occurs. But please don't mistake the acknowledgement that these things have and will always happen as some sort of approval or ignoring of these actions. I think we as a society can keep a lid on it as long as we don't go overboard with linking every racist action to the result of DJT being elected.

 

Let's make something perfectly clear. We knew enough about Donald Trump to know what he would do as president. He's now making those fears a reality.

Based on what we knew before the election, there were no "right reasons" to vote for Donald Trump. This is something people who voted against Hillary will tell themselves, but it is a fallacy.

 

If you don't want to be labeled a racist enabler, don't vote for a racist.

 

If you don't want to be labeled a climate destruction enabler, don't vote for a denier of science.

 

If you don't want to be labeled a xenophobe, don't vote for a xenophobe.

 

Get the picture? I can go on - there's plenty more.

 

But let's stop, right now, with this "I shouldn't be labeled any of these things because I voted for the guy who said he would do all these things." Life doesn't work that way. It's called abetting, and while you may not have robbed the bank, you drove the getaway car.

 

Own your vote.

Again....I didn't vote for him. But I do understand that some people did vote for him for good reasons. You seem incapable of that same level of understanding. People have varying motivation when they enter that voting booth. They may choose to overlook some faults of the candidates based on their specific concerns. Some people voted for Trump maybe because they felt strongly about abortion. I think quite a few voted for him due to their specific economic situation. Some voted based on jobs, inequitable trade conditions, healthcare, offshoring of jobs, taxes, the list could go on. And yes, I'm sure some asshats voted for him to get those [insert racial slur here] out of "their" country because that is the part of the Trump message that resonated with them.

 

I understand the thought that everyone knew before so therefore.....but those things did not dictate every persons vote. Just because it influenced yours, mine and many others, don't jump to the knee jerk conclusion that everyone used the same reasoning. What you just typed is your opinion and your rationale, don't assign more to it than that. Hillary voters had to overlook and ignore some pretty serious character flaws as well. And please don't retread the false equivalency BS again. I think I've sufficiently explained that people use differing criteria. Not everyone who voted for Trump approves of his words, actions or behavior in all areas. The ludicrous claims to the contrary really need to stop.

[Moiraine]

Let's talk about that wall. In Trump's official plan he sticks to having Mexico pay for it. Let's say Mexico refuses. What are Trump's options? Do we cut off trade with them? Impose huge tariffs? If so, can our economy handle that?

[knapplc]

Again....I didn't vote for him. But I do understand that some people did vote for him for good reasons. You seem incapable of that same level of understanding. People have varying motivation when they enter that voting booth. They may choose to overlook some faults of the candidates based on their specific concerns. Some people voted for Trump maybe because they felt strongly about abortion. I think quite a few voted for him due to their specific economic situation. Some voted based on jobs, inequitable trade conditions, healthcare, offshoring of jobs, taxes, the list could go on. And yes, I'm sure some asshats voted for him to get those [insert racial slur here] out of "their" country because that is the part of the Trump message that resonated with them.

 

I understand the thought that everyone knew before so therefore.....but those things did not dictate every persons vote. Just because it influenced yours, mine and many others, don't jump to the knee jerk conclusion that everyone used the same reasoning. What you just typed is your opinion and your rationale, don't assign more to it than that. Hillary voters had to overlook and ignore some pretty serious character flaws as well. And please don't retread the false equivalency BS again. I think I've sufficiently explained that people use differing criteria. Not everyone who voted for Trump approves of his words, actions or behavior in all areas. The ludicrous claims to the contrary really need to stop.

I completely don't misunderstand the situation, nor am I incapable of whatever understanding you're talking about. I understand why they voted for him. I understand why people commit crimes, too - that doesn't mean I agree with those crimes. In fact, I vehemently oppose them.

 

What you're basically saying is, there is no unelectable candidate. Everyone who votes for every candidate has a reason. Because of those reasons, every candidate from Pol Pot to Ghandi is OK. That's a fallacious statement and I'll oppose that line of reasoning every single time you bring it up. There are unelectable candidates. Trump is one.

[JJ Husker]

 

So does that mean everyone that voted for Hillary should be known as a truth bender that will publicly shame someone that accuses their spouse of extra marital affairs?

I just want to make sure because I think you covered the Trump supporters, so I just want to know where the Hillary supporters are coming from.

 

Don’t get me started on those poop slinging Harambe people.

 

I own my Hillary vote, lock, stock & barrel.

That's good, I'm glad you were proud to vote for Hillary.

 

And you now get the added benefit of not having to explain why you helped elect a [insert one or more of her many serious character flaws here].

 

You should maybe ask yourself, what or how many less of Trump's faults or policy positions would have changed your vote. Is it just because he's racist? Because of the womanizing and sexist problems? His legal issues? Stiffing contractors? The wall? Can you acknowledge that there are some specific issues, the scope and breadth of which, had you deemed them a little less concerning, that may have caused you to change your vote. If you can, then you may begin to see that not everyone sees the world through your eyes and experiences.

[knapplc]

 

 

So does that mean everyone that voted for Hillary should be known as a truth bender that will publicly shame someone that accuses their spouse of extra marital affairs?

I just want to make sure because I think you covered the Trump supporters, so I just want to know where the Hillary supporters are coming from.

 

Don’t get me started on those poop slinging Harambe people.

I own my Hillary vote, lock, stock & barrel.

 

That's good, I'm glad you were proud to vote for Hillary.

 

And you now get the added benefit of not having to explain why you helped elect a [insert one or more of her many serious character flaws here].

 

You should maybe ask yourself, what or how many less of Trump's faults or policy positions would have changed your vote. Is it just because he's racist? Because of the womanizing and sexist problems? His legal issues? Stiffing contractors? The wall? Can you acknowledge that there are some specific issues, the scope and breadth of which, had you deemed them a little less concerning, that may have caused you to change your vote. If you can, then you may begin to see that not everyone sees the world through your eyes and experiences.

 

I'm not proud to have voted for Hillary, as I've made clear over and over.

 

I could easily have explained that vote, and would to this day, by saying that as flawed as she is, much as I dislike her, she's better than Trump. And she is, and would be for America.

 

It isn't a matter of seeing the world through different eyes. It's a matter of right and wrong.

[knapplc]

"Is it just because he's racist."

 

I mean... if that were the only reason, wouldn't that alone be enough? Do we really need a racist in the White House? That line of thinking makes no sense.

[GM_Tood]

Let's talk about that wall. In Trump's official plan he sticks to having Mexico pay for it. Let's say Mexico refuses. What are Trump's options? Do we cut off trade with them? Impose huge tariffs? If so, can our economy handle that?

He would also "change a rule under the USA Patriot Act anti-terrorism law to cut off a portion of the funds sent to Mexico through money transfers".

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/politics/memo-explains-how-donald-trump-plans-to-pay-for-border-wall/2007/?tid=a_inl

[zoogs]

At best, this is an absurd bully tactic.

[JJ Husker]

 

Again....I didn't vote for him. But I do understand that some people did vote for him for good reasons. You seem incapable of that same level of understanding. People have varying motivation when they enter that voting booth. They may choose to overlook some faults of the candidates based on their specific concerns. Some people voted for Trump maybe because they felt strongly about abortion. I think quite a few voted for him due to their specific economic situation. Some voted based on jobs, inequitable trade conditions, healthcare, offshoring of jobs, taxes, the list could go on. And yes, I'm sure some asshats voted for him to get those [insert racial slur here] out of "their" country because that is the part of the Trump message that resonated with them.

 

I understand the thought that everyone knew before so therefore.....but those things did not dictate every persons vote. Just because it influenced yours, mine and many others, don't jump to the knee jerk conclusion that everyone used the same reasoning. What you just typed is your opinion and your rationale, don't assign more to it than that. Hillary voters had to overlook and ignore some pretty serious character flaws as well. And please don't retread the false equivalency BS again. I think I've sufficiently explained that people use differing criteria. Not everyone who voted for Trump approves of his words, actions or behavior in all areas. The ludicrous claims to the contrary really need to stop.

I completely don't misunderstand the situation, nor am I incapable of whatever understanding you're talking about. I understand why they voted for him. I understand why people commit crimes, too - that doesn't mean I agree with those crimes. In fact, I vehemently oppose them.

 

What you're basically saying is, there is no unelectable candidate. Everyone who votes for every candidate has a reason. Because of those reasons, every candidate from Pol Pot to Ghandi is OK. That's a fallacious statement and I'll oppose that line of reasoning every single time you bring it up. There are unelectable candidates. Trump is one.

 

 

Who said he is ok? I didn't say he was ok.

 

I have not asked you to not vehemently oppose Trump. I completely understand the desire and motivation to do so. What I am asking for is an acknowledgement that not everyone who voted for Trump did so because they are racists or that they approve of racist behavior. I know that to be a fact but it seems many hereabouts are struggling with the concept.

 

Also, I did not say, basically or otherwise, that there are no unelectable candidates. I happen to feel there were more than one unelectable candidates in this election cycle. The fact one may be deemed worse than the other does absolutely nothing to reasonably justify that the other one is somehow electable. Additionally, a vote for a candidate does not mean that candidate is ok.

 

Look, I feel a bit strange arguing these points as I am no Trump supporter and I run the risk of people misunderstanding my intentions. But I do know there are many good people who voted for Trump for their various reasons. The fact he crossed that line with you, me and so many others does not make the people who voted for him de facto supporters of all that is Trump. This is why the false equivalency argument has somewhat annoyed me. The point of demarcation is not the same for everyone.

[Moiraine]

 

Let's talk about that wall. In Trump's official plan he sticks to having Mexico pay for it. Let's say Mexico refuses. What are Trump's options? Do we cut off trade with them? Impose huge tariffs? If so, can our economy handle that?

He would also "change a rule under the USA Patriot Act anti-terrorism law to cut off a portion of the funds sent to Mexico through money transfers".

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/politics/memo-explains-how-donald-trump-plans-to-pay-for-border-wall/2007/?tid=a_inl

 

 

There's a difference between Mexico (as in the government) paying for the wall, and individual Mexicans paying for the wall. I think most people always took it to mean the former. Adding/increasing a fee to visas is the latter. With the day 1 thing, it might be that Mexico decides that will hurt the economy enough that they should pay for the wall instead. We'll have to see how proud they are. If they're proud enough it will hurt our economy. Trump's talk of China is much more concerning. We can't have every country pissed off at us at the same time.

 

Also, something written in the cancelling visas section is a huge assumption which I doubt is correct; which is that accepting a large number of immigrants has decreased Americans' wages and raised unemployment.

[knapplc]

 

 

Again....I didn't vote for him. But I do understand that some people did vote for him for good reasons. You seem incapable of that same level of understanding. People have varying motivation when they enter that voting booth. They may choose to overlook some faults of the candidates based on their specific concerns. Some people voted for Trump maybe because they felt strongly about abortion. I think quite a few voted for him due to their specific economic situation. Some voted based on jobs, inequitable trade conditions, healthcare, offshoring of jobs, taxes, the list could go on. And yes, I'm sure some asshats voted for him to get those [insert racial slur here] out of "their" country because that is the part of the Trump message that resonated with them.

 

I understand the thought that everyone knew before so therefore.....but those things did not dictate every persons vote. Just because it influenced yours, mine and many others, don't jump to the knee jerk conclusion that everyone used the same reasoning. What you just typed is your opinion and your rationale, don't assign more to it than that. Hillary voters had to overlook and ignore some pretty serious character flaws as well. And please don't retread the false equivalency BS again. I think I've sufficiently explained that people use differing criteria. Not everyone who voted for Trump approves of his words, actions or behavior in all areas. The ludicrous claims to the contrary really need to stop.

I completely don't misunderstand the situation, nor am I incapable of whatever understanding you're talking about. I understand why they voted for him. I understand why people commit crimes, too - that doesn't mean I agree with those crimes. In fact, I vehemently oppose them.

 

What you're basically saying is, there is no unelectable candidate. Everyone who votes for every candidate has a reason. Because of those reasons, every candidate from Pol Pot to Ghandi is OK. That's a fallacious statement and I'll oppose that line of reasoning every single time you bring it up. There are unelectable candidates. Trump is one.

 

Who said he is ok? I didn't say he was ok.

 

I have not asked you to not vehemently oppose Trump. I completely understand the desire and motivation to do so. What I am asking for is an acknowledgement that not everyone who voted for Trump did so because they are racists or that they approve of racist behavior. I know that to be a fact but it seems many hereabouts are struggling with the concept.

 

Also, I did not say, basically or otherwise, that there are no unelectable candidates. I happen to feel there were more than one unelectable candidates in this election cycle. The fact one may be deemed worse than the other does absolutely nothing to reasonably justify that the other one is somehow electable. Additionally, a vote for a candidate does not mean that candidate is ok.

 

Look, I feel a bit strange arguing these points as I am no Trump supporter and I run the risk of people misunderstanding my intentions. But I do know there are many good people who voted for Trump for their various reasons. The fact he crossed that line with you, me and so many others does not make the people who voted for him de facto supporters of all that is Trump. This is why the false equivalency argument has somewhat annoyed me. The point of demarcation is not the same for everyone.

 

So no candidate is unelectable. People have reasons - which they always, always will - and because of those reasons we need to accept their votes as OK no matter how damaging the candidate they elect is to this country.

 

That makes zero sense. Read that back again and think about what you're saying.