Trump's America

[knapplc]

Now your lack of understanding (or willful avoidance of understanding) is starting to kind of annoy me. It wasn't a joke.

 

Racist- Judges people based on the color of their skin, not by really knowing anything about that person.

 

What you and some people seem to have been doing for the last week or more- Judges people based on their vote, not by really knowing anything about that person.

 

This in no way says it is exactly the same as racism or that one is not way worse than the other. But the action of judging other people based only on certain criteria....yeah, it's sort of the same thing.

You keep telling me I have a lack of understanding. I walked past understanding where those people are coming from a long, long time ago. I'm surrounded by and talk to Trump supporters, and have been since the beginning of his campaign. Your constant refrain of "you don't understand" fails because you refuse to move past it.

 

I understand where they're coming from. I understand they feel they lack a voice. I understand their frustration. I have always understood it.

 

What I'm telling you, and you refuse to hear, is that TRUMP IS THAT UNELECTABLE CANDIDATE. I can type that bigger if you need me to.

 

You are not educating anyone. You're stuck at this idea that people decrying Trump voters don't understand them. Disabuse yourself of that notion so we can move forward in the conversation.

[BigRedBuster]

I am fully 100% related to Trump supporters and am around them a lot. I completely understand at least their faction of Trump supporting.

 

Sitting back and watching their attitudes towards certain actions have completely changed from where they normally would be. Typical things that they would think are totally unacceptable and disgusting in a person....now they defend. Typically when something is pointed out as being a completely made up lie a candidate says...now they are 100% bought into it's validity. Typically the ability to sit and discuss issues with them.....no longer exists because they are fired up and on the war path.

 

This is not an exaggeration. This is a perfect description of my parents. Two years ago, my parents would have thought Trump was the biggest egotistical jack ass. Now...he is their savior because he defeated the evil woman.....Hillary.

 

It's like their pure flames of hatred of Hillary (mostly due to their constant consumption of Fox News and nothing else) has some how morphed into complete blindness to every negative that has ever been pointed out about Trump.

 

The other night I was out with them and I started by saying I was very happy Hillary is not our President but then simply said I am very concerned about Trump winning (actually stated very politely because they are my parents)....OMG....you would have thought I insulted them personally and instantly became a total embarrassment to the family.

 

The part I can not begin to fathom is how people can be so blind to reality.

[knapplc]

I am fully 100% related to Trump supporters and am around them a lot. I completely understand at least their faction of Trump supporting.

 

Sitting back and watching their attitudes towards certain actions have completely changed from where they normally would be. Typical things that they would think are totally unacceptable and disgusting in a person....now they defend. Typically when something is pointed out as being a completely made up lie a candidate says...now they are 100% bought into it's validity. Typically the ability to sit and discuss issues with them.....no longer exists because they are fired up and on the war path.

 

This is not an exaggeration. This is a perfect description of my parents. Two years ago, my parents would have thought Trump was the biggest egotistical jack ass. Now...he is their savior because he defeated the evil woman.....Hillary.

 

It's like their pure flames of hatred of Hillary (mostly due to their constant consumption of Fox News and nothing else) has some how morphed into complete blindness to every negative that has ever been pointed out about Trump.

 

The other night I was out with them and I started by saying I was very happy Hillary is not our President but then simply said I am very concerned about Trump winning (actually stated very politely because they are my parents)....OMG....you would have thought I insulted them personally and instantly became a total embarrassment to the family.

 

The part I can not begin to fathom is how people can be so blind to reality.

And the oddest thing is, Trump has historically not been a Republican. He could easily have run as a Democrat, and those same people would hate him.

 

Blind to reality is a perfect way of putting it.

[teachercd]

I am fully 100% related to Trump supporters and am around them a lot. I completely understand at least their faction of Trump supporting.

 

Sitting back and watching their attitudes towards certain actions have completely changed from where they normally would be. Typical things that they would think are totally unacceptable and disgusting in a person....now they defend. Typically when something is pointed out as being a completely made up lie a candidate says...now they are 100% bought into it's validity. Typically the ability to sit and discuss issues with them.....no longer exists because they are fired up and on the war path.

 

This is not an exaggeration. This is a perfect description of my parents. Two years ago, my parents would have thought Trump was the biggest egotistical jack ass. Now...he is their savior because he defeated the evil woman.....Hillary.

 

It's like their pure flames of hatred of Hillary (mostly due to their constant consumption of Fox News and nothing else) has some how morphed into complete blindness to every negative that has ever been pointed out about Trump.

 

The other night I was out with them and I started by saying I was very happy Hillary is not our President but then simply said I am very concerned about Trump winning (actually stated very politely because they are my parents)....OMG....you would have thought I insulted them personally and instantly became a total embarrassment to the family.

 

The part I can not begin to fathom is how people can be so blind to reality.

That is why most people don't discuss politics! It seems like it never ends well, people get so sensitive.

[teachercd]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_who_owned_slaves

[JJ Husker]

I am fully 100% related to Trump supporters and am around them a lot. I completely understand at least their faction of Trump supporting.

 

Sitting back and watching their attitudes towards certain actions have completely changed from where they normally would be. Typical things that they would think are totally unacceptable and disgusting in a person....now they defend. Typically when something is pointed out as being a completely made up lie a candidate says...now they are 100% bought into it's validity. Typically the ability to sit and discuss issues with them.....no longer exists because they are fired up and on the war path.

 

This is not an exaggeration. This is a perfect description of my parents. Two years ago, my parents would have thought Trump was the biggest egotistical jack ass. Now...he is their savior because he defeated the evil woman.....Hillary.

 

It's like their pure flames of hatred of Hillary (mostly due to their constant consumption of Fox News and nothing else) has some how morphed into complete blindness to every negative that has ever been pointed out about Trump.

 

The other night I was out with them and I started by saying I was very happy Hillary is not our President but then simply said I am very concerned about Trump winning (actually stated very politely because they are my parents)....OMG....you would have thought I insulted them personally and instantly became a total embarrassment to the family.

 

The part I can not begin to fathom is how people can be so blind to reality.

 

Thanks for sharing that. I'm guessing (could be wrong) that you probably don't think every one of these family members is racist. OR, that you can at least see how a person could find themselves in the Trump camp without being a racist. I really haven't been "privileged" or exposed to talking to many that really defend Trump or were overtly happy to vote for him. In fact I personally know darned few people that did or claim to have voted for him at all. Of course I could say much the same thing about Hillary voters. Political discussion in person is a sure way to cause some awkward situations. That is likely why so many of us choose to do it anonymously here on HB.

 

The one exception to my lack of direct exposure to Trump supporters is one neighbor of mine who is absolutely convinced that Trump was ordained by God to become our President and lead this country in a new, better direction. Now before anyone pulls a muscle jumping all over this guy, I must tell you that he is one of the kindest, most giving, least racist people you could ever meet. I have known him for about 30 years, talk to him quite often. He has become over the years more deeply religious (for lack of a better word), to the point that some of our discussions are now a little uncomfortable for me. No, that isn't really it, it is the Trump thing that makes me uncomfortable but I digress. He may be a little over the top with the evangelical angle on this but he believes this with his whole heart. He is not stupid or ignorant. He is very engaged in his church, volunteers and is extremely accepting of all people. He does not have a racist or bigoted bone in his body. I do know these things about him for a fact. His almost sole focus is to acquaint people with God and Jesus and he is convinced through some revelations and other factors and beliefs that Trump (admittedly as unlikely of a person as Trump) is God's answer. He does not claim that Trump is a man of God per se but that God selected him to do his will. There are examples in the Bible of God selecting ungodly type people to do his will. I have had a couple lengthy discussions with him about the Trump pre and and post election. He has many very good reasons for why he believes as he does and why he feels Trump is not as bad as we all think and will actually turn out to be very good. I do not share his enthusiasm or subscribe to his theories but I am leaving myself slightly (ever so slightly) open to the possibility that hoping he may be proven right. If he isn't (and by all accounts, he won't be) it will become clearer and clearer by the day.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to share that. I am not going to get into whether or not that rationale is right, wrong or indifferent. Just wanted people to know it exists and that, at least in this case, the source is from an extremely good person who is not bigoted or ignorant in the least. I think the worst you could say about this guy is that the criteria he is using and relying on is extremely selective which may lead some to the conclusion of ignorance. I don't want to morph this into yet another religion bashing topic either. That surely is not my intention.

[zoogs]

He does not claim that Trump is a man of God per se but that God selected him to do his will. There are examples in the Bible of God selecting ungodly type people to do his will.

Yeah, this is one of the interesting justifications that I've seen people use in trying to reconcile their faith with their choice. I'm not a big fan of it. I'd definitely agree with your characterization of "extremely selective" criteria. To a point, we all have different priorities and it's not easy to hash out what we should agree about and what we shouldn't. That part I can understand.

 

On the other hand, I'm generally happy to try and hash that out, point out what I think should be generally viewed as important and why.

[Moiraine]

Trump is more likely to be the antichrist than be "ordained by God to become our President and lead this country in a new, better direction"

[BigRedBuster]

 

I am fully 100% related to Trump supporters and am around them a lot. I completely understand at least their faction of Trump supporting.

 

Sitting back and watching their attitudes towards certain actions have completely changed from where they normally would be. Typical things that they would think are totally unacceptable and disgusting in a person....now they defend. Typically when something is pointed out as being a completely made up lie a candidate says...now they are 100% bought into it's validity. Typically the ability to sit and discuss issues with them.....no longer exists because they are fired up and on the war path.

 

This is not an exaggeration. This is a perfect description of my parents. Two years ago, my parents would have thought Trump was the biggest egotistical jack ass. Now...he is their savior because he defeated the evil woman.....Hillary.

 

It's like their pure flames of hatred of Hillary (mostly due to their constant consumption of Fox News and nothing else) has some how morphed into complete blindness to every negative that has ever been pointed out about Trump.

 

The other night I was out with them and I started by saying I was very happy Hillary is not our President but then simply said I am very concerned about Trump winning (actually stated very politely because they are my parents)....OMG....you would have thought I insulted them personally and instantly became a total embarrassment to the family.

 

The part I can not begin to fathom is how people can be so blind to reality.

 

Thanks for sharing that. I'm guessing (could be wrong) that you probably don't think every one of these family members is racist. OR, that you can at least see how a person could find themselves in the Trump camp without being a racist. I really haven't been "privileged" or exposed to talking to many that really defend Trump or were overtly happy to vote for him. In fact I personally know darned few people that did or claim to have voted for him at all. Of course I could say much the same thing about Hillary voters. Political discussion in person is a sure way to cause some awkward situations. That is likely why so many of us choose to do it anonymously here on HB.

 

The one exception to my lack of direct exposure to Trump supporters is one neighbor of mine who is absolutely convinced that Trump was ordained by God to become our President and lead this country in a new, better direction. Now before anyone pulls a muscle jumping all over this guy, I must tell you that he is one of the kindest, most giving, least racist people you could ever meet. I have known him for about 30 years, talk to him quite often. He has become over the years more deeply religious (for lack of a better word), to the point that some of our discussions are now a little uncomfortable for me. No, that isn't really it, it is the Trump thing that makes me uncomfortable but I digress. He may be a little over the top with the evangelical angle on this but he believes this with his whole heart. He is not stupid or ignorant. He is very engaged in his church, volunteers and is extremely accepting of all people. He does not have a racist or bigoted bone in his body. I do know these things about him for a fact. His almost sole focus is to acquaint people with God and Jesus and he is convinced through some revelations and other factors and beliefs that Trump (admittedly as unlikely of a person as Trump) is God's answer. He does not claim that Trump is a man of God per se but that God selected him to do his will. There are examples in the Bible of God selecting ungodly type people to do his will. I have had a couple lengthy discussions with him about the Trump pre and and post election. He has many very good reasons for why he believes as he does and why he feels Trump is not as bad as we all think and will actually turn out to be very good. I do not share his enthusiasm or subscribe to his theories but I am leaving myself slightly (ever so slightly) open to the possibility that hoping he may be proven right. If he isn't (and by all accounts, he won't be) it will become clearer and clearer by the day.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to share that. I am not going to get into whether or not that rationale is right, wrong or indifferent. Just wanted people to know it exists and that, at least in this case, the source is from an extremely good person who is not bigoted or ignorant in the least. I think the worst you could say about this guy is that the criteria he is using and relying on is extremely selective which may lead some to the conclusion of ignorance. I don't want to morph this into yet another religion bashing topic either. That surely is not my intention.

 

JJ....

 

Thanks for sharing that. It's interesting.

 

I never have thought of my parents as being racist in any way.....until probably the last 4-5 years. They are 82 and 86 years old. I just catch them more and more making statements about various races of people that just sort of leave me with nothing to say because I'm just not used to hearing that from them.

 

I get a chuckle though out of my father. Every single time there is a black Republican nominee, he is 100% on board with supporting him. Bumper stickers all over his car, constantly talking about him. Heck, with Ben Carson he even drove a state and a half away to go to one of his rallies. My nonprofessional psychological analysis makes me believe he does this because he thinks it makes him look like he isn't racist.

 

The story of your neighbor is interesting because, as a Christian myself, I can't figure out how someone like him comes to believe God would send someone to our country to save us........from what exactly?

[Landlord]

Let's just call a spade a spade - unless they're extremely young, or were full-fledged hippies, it's a pretty safe bet that all of our parents have some racist preconceptions and biases that aren't good. They grew up in a different world. Not only that, but it makes sense biologically to have those kinds of prejudices.

 

 

Anything 'different' is scary, and the more different, the more scary. If a 6'5" 350 lb black guy is walking up to me on a street at night, you bet your ass I'd be frightened and fearful, because despite how often I try to challenge my biases and how much of a supporter I am of racial inequality, that guy doesn't look like me, which my amygdala translates into fear/flight.

[zoogs]

My parents are the nicest people. They'll still say things that are pretty subtly (or less so) racist. These are learned behaviors and they're easy attitudes to have when they keep going unchallenged.

 

Racism is a pretty natural thing to have. The part that has to switch on and go, "Wait, no, that's wrong" -- in a genuine, not man, why do I have to have all these rules on how to talk way -- that takes effort. The goal is for more people to get there, and to not see the efforts to do so as propaganda.

[knapplc]

BRB, I have family members like that. And while the term "racist" has been bandied about a lot in the last few days, perhaps your parents, like mine, aren't "racists" but racially biased. Not "keep 'em down & call 'em names" racists, but people who believe there's a separation between people like them and people not like them. To an extent we all have those biases - I acknowledge that I have a bias against panhandlers. Won't even talk to them. They are not "people like me."

 

I have a crayon box variety of friends, from all colors to all faiths to all orientations. Each of them is "people like me."

 

Some people are comfortable with the 8-color box of crayons.

 

 

Some with 16.

 

 

Some with 24.

 

 

Some are cool with the 96-color box.

 

 

Some are cool with the ultimate box of crayons, all the colors, even some colors girls haven't invented yet.

 

 

The thing I'm worried about is when those 8-color box people tell the others they can't be cool with, or hang around, the other colors. Because all those different colors make my world a lot brighter, and I want to keep it that way.

[BigRedBuster]

Let's just call a spade a spade - unless they're extremely young, or were full-fledged hippies, it's a pretty safe bet that all of our parents have some racist preconceptions and biases that aren't good. They grew up in a different world.

I can see what you are saying. However, let me explain my parents:

 

Mother: Daughter of two German immigrants and was a little girl during WWII. They farmed south of Hastings. Very isolated life growing up. Her mother would bake bread for her father to take to the German POWs a few miles away. He would sit around with them and talk about how horrible Hitler was and how his hatred of various groups were bad. I'm told the vast majority of the prisoners agreed with him. In fact, after the war, some either stayed in the area or moved back to the area after originally returning to Germany. I remember her telling me a story about as a woman in her 20s, she took a trip down south and was appalled by the racial stuff she saw pertaining to segregation. She grew up being taught by her parents not to hate other groups.

 

Father: Lived in central Nebraska in an era where a lot of hispanic migrants came to work in the sugar beat or potato fields. He was around them all the time so he wasn't isolated from other races. I never once growing up remember him ever saying anything negatively racial towards hispanics or any other race. I remember many conversations where he supported the black movement in the 60s and greatly admired MLK and others. When people would say something racial (negatively) he would speak out against it. He always seemed to have a passion and place in his heart for the hispanic immigrants he grew up around. My father actually had a friend in school who was Japanese. During the war he and his family were taken to a camp in California. My father talked a lot about how horrible and wrong that was during the war. He has spend a lot of time since then trying to find his friend and invite him back to class reunions...etc.

 

So, I have many reasons to believe growing up, my parents were not racist.

However, like I said, in the last 4-5 years the things they say have changed dramatically. So, this has been on my mind long before this election and the latest Trump craze. BUT, it explains why they aren't appalled by the racial things Trump has said or has done.

[JJ Husker]

Trump is more likely to be the antichrist than be "ordained by God to become our President and lead this country in a new, better direction"

 

I tend to agree with that assessment.

However, I now find myself in the arena of "I seriously doubt I'll get what I want but I sure do hope he changes or won't be as bad as all indications pointed to". Wild pipe dreams....I know.

[JJ Husker]

 

He does not claim that Trump is a man of God per se but that God selected him to do his will. There are examples in the Bible of God selecting ungodly type people to do his will.

Yeah, this is one of the interesting justifications that I've seen people use in trying to reconcile their faith with their choice. I'm not a big fan of it. I'd definitely agree with your characterization of "extremely selective" criteria. To a point, we all have different priorities and it's not easy to hash out what we should agree about and what we shouldn't. That part I can understand.

 

On the other hand, I'm generally happy to try and hash that out, point out what I think should be generally viewed as important and why.

 

 

The thing is, I don't believe it is a justification he is using to reconcile his faith with his choice. It's probably a subtle difference (and possibly a more concerning one) but I'm pretty sure his faith, or more aptly the things he was exposed to because of his faith, led him to this choice. I'm not going to claim he is representative of any certain number of people, but I have the feeling he isn't the only one. I am fairly convinced through our discussions that he isn't going through a series of mental gymnastics trying to justify his support of Trump. It's simply that he has a very strong belief in God, prayer and has no doubts that God is very interactive with people on this earth. When he became aware of a couple of people who received this "revelation" and accepted those as legitimate, there was no justifying required. Simply the power of belief and faith.