Dems Rebuild

[BigRedBuster]

Trump won because he appealed to a very unsophisticated voter that doesn't care much about what his or her own situation is.....and many of those people feel left behind or beaten down by Washington.

[knapplc]

What reality are you talking about regarding Coal, BRB? The reality that those people were pissed off about losing their jobs, or the reality that those jobs are going away and never coming back?

 

Because of those two, only one reality moves you forward for the future.

 

A person can be pissed off about losing their jobs all they want. But listening to the carnival barker who's selling you a raft of crap about bringing your job back isn't going to help you.

 

So, yes, Trump won because he appealed to unsophisticated voters. But believing that it's the government's fault, or Clinton's is a lie. It's simple basic economics.

 

That's what's most tragic about Trump lying to those people. He got into office on the back of that lie, and he's not going to do a thing to help them once those coal mines shut down. Clinton was at least talking reality to them.

[Danny Bateman]

What reality are you talking about regarding Coal, BRB? The reality that those people were pissed off about losing their jobs, or the reality that those jobs are going away and never coming back?

 

Because of those two, only one reality moves you forward for the future.

 

A person can be pissed off about losing their jobs all they want. But listening to the carnival barker who's selling you a raft of crap about bringing your job back isn't going to help you.

 

So, yes, Trump won because he appealed to unsophisticated voters. But believing that it's the government's fault, or Clinton's is a lie. It's simple basic economics.

 

That's what's most tragic about Trump lying to those people. He got into office on the back of that lie, and he's not going to do a thing to help them once those coal mines shut down. Clinton was at least talking reality to them.

 

This reminds me of an thought I had the other day.

 

Clinton suffered in part because she tried to have a wonky, pragmatic message - heavy on details and trying not to overpromise. It didn't appeal to very many people.

 

Trump is now going to suffer for the exact opposite. Speaking only in hyperbole about everything and promising the moon is going to piss some people off when they realize the end result is a whole lot less than they were told they'd get.

[Danny Bateman]

Trump won because he appealed to a very unsophisticated voter that doesn't care much about what his or her own situation is.....and many of those people feel left behind or beaten down by Washington.

 

I agree with the last couple things you've posted. They're largely why he won. There is a huge chunk of disaffected Americans that feel left behind, and he reeled them right in.

 

Let's see what they do if he does just ignore them like all the other politicians you described. Will they turn out for him again?

[BigRedBuster]

What reality are you talking about regarding Coal, BRB? The reality that those people were pissed off about losing their jobs, or the reality that those jobs are going away and never coming back?

 

Because of those two, only one reality moves you forward for the future.

 

A person can be pissed off about losing their jobs all they want. But listening to the carnival barker who's selling you a raft of crap about bringing your job back isn't going to help you.

 

So, yes, Trump won because he appealed to unsophisticated voters. But believing that it's the government's fault, or Clinton's is a lie. It's simple basic economics.

 

That's what's most tragic about Trump lying to those people. He got into office on the back of that lie, and he's not going to do a thing to help them once those coal mines shut down. Clinton was at least talking reality to them.

Nothing I have typed is necessarily my opinion nor even a logical one.

 

I'm pointing out why he won.

 

Democrats have to combat that someway that makes these people believe that they are going to get a good job if they vote for them.

 

Simple as that.

 

Now, I think they will have that opportunity because no way can Trump fulfill promises he made to these people.

[BigRedBuster]

Look I work in sales and manage sales people.

 

You can have the most logical and honest sales pitch in the world. But, if that sales pitch doesn't match what the customer believes or finds the most important, chances are someone else is going to get the sale.

 

Fact is, politicians have been promising Americans everything in the link to hillaries talking points for decades. There isn't anything new there.

 

She's a worn out old politician with nothing new to say and thought the whitehouse was hers.

[knapplc]

I agree with all of that, and I'll give you an example from personal experience.

 

I was a volunteer on the David Karnes campaign in 1988. Went all over the state handing out buttons and shaking hands. My first real political experience. It was kind of fun, in a nerdy way.

 

Karnes was running against Bob Kerry for the Senate seat, the one formerly held by Ed Zorinsky. I can't remember what polls showed, but through the summer it felt like we were doing well, and that we had a chance.

 

Until the debate at the State Fair, where the candidates were asked about the farm economy, and Karnes said that America needed less family farmers. What he was talking about was the inability of local farmers to compete with corporate conglomerates, and it came out all wrong. The mood in that barn(?) just turned icy cold, and I knew, kid that I was, that we had just lost the campaign.

 

Didn't matter if that was true or untrue, you do not tell an audience of family farmers that we need fewer of them. It was a disaster, and Karnes ended up getting crushed in the election.

[Landlord]

Neuroscience has proven to us that effective storytelling works much, much better at changing people's minds and opinions than data, numbers and statistics do. We are storytelling machines - all our entire existence really is is 86 billion neurons telling a story to themselves through feedback loops.

 

It's no surprise that a compelling, concise counter-narrative won enough people over to capture the Presidency. But it is a sobering reality of how those opposed to the demagoguery and xenophobia and general asshattedness of Trump/what he represents need to be able to offer their own cohesive counter narrative, that is for something tangible and concise, instead of just being against the other thing.

[zoogs]

@RedDenver (it'd be neat if we could tag like this, wouldn't it?), something I'm eyeing for my reading list is Noam Chomsky's Requiem for the American Dream. I watched the Netflix documentary recently. Wondering if you've perhaps already seen it.

[RedDenver]

@RedDenver (it'd be neat if we could tag like this, wouldn't it?), something I'm eyeing for my reading list is Noam Chomsky's Requiem for the American Dream. I watched the Netflix documentary recently. Wondering if you've perhaps already seen it.

It's on my list, but I've been too busy. I'd also like to read Listen, liberal by Thomas Frank.

 

If anyone knows of some rational conservatives, I'd like to read some stuff by them.

[BigRedBuster]

Gee......ya think you went too far????

 

Dems need to NOT be seen like this.

 

[Danny Bateman]

She kind of looks like Kellyanne Conway wearing a wig in that pic.

[knapplc]

Why in the world would you think she represents Democrats in this situation?

[commando]

yeah...that was incredibly stupid of her. she is on par with the people who were hanging obama in effigy. low class idiots.

[BigRedBuster]

Not saying she does.