The Republican Utopia

[Archy1221]

30 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I mean, if the choices are higher taxes or lower taxes, I like lower taxes. 

Seems like a no brainer, but some posters here suggest otherwise. 

[teachercd]

10 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Seems like a no brainer, but some posters here suggest otherwise. 

I know there are the "I don't mind paying my fair share to make things better" crowd but make what better?

 

And if giving us more money, by having less taxes, doesn't "fix things" then how does giving more money to other "issues" fix them?  

 

 

[TGHusker]

41 minutes ago, teachercd said:

I mean, if the choices are higher taxes or lower taxes, I like lower taxes. 

I do too - I just completed my taxes - ouch.   But Okla fails to address many of the needs of the state - our Education is rank very low, health care for many is rated low,  etc.  

[teachercd]

Just now, TGHusker said:

I do too - I just completed my taxes - ouch.   But Okla fails to address many of the needs of the state - our Education is rank very low, health care for many is rated low,  etc.  

Yeah, in the end most of us really just care about nice roads, police, fire (f#&%ers), nice schools and healthcare.  

 

We just need to focus on that stuff.

[TGHusker]

Just now, teachercd said:

Yeah, in the end most of us really just care about nice roads, police, fire (f#&%ers), nice schools and healthcare.  

 

We just need to focus on that stuff.

I would venture to say our roads are some of the worst unless you like to pay tolls.  You can barely get into Tulsa without paying a toll.   I think HWY 169 is the only major highway  coming into Tulsa without tolls.  

[Archy1221]

1 minute ago, teachercd said:

I know there are the "I don't mind paying my fair share to make things better" crowd but make what better?

 

And if giving us more money, by having less taxes, doesn't "fix things" then how does giving more money to other "issues" fix them?  

 

 

But it’s actually not giving us more money…..it’s actually our money in the first place that we ARE HAVING TO GIVE to the government.  So a tax cut is just us keeping more of our money instead of giving it away for a bureaucratic agency to spend on various public projects, cost centers, etc… 

 

People tend to think government has to pay for a tax break.   Not the case.  

[teachercd]

Just now, TGHusker said:

I would venture to say our roads are some of the worst unless you like to pay tolls.  You can barely get into Tulsa without paying a toll.   I think HWY 169 is the only major highway  coming into Tulsa without tolls.  

Okie has tolls?  

 

Seriously, that is robbery, I grew up in Illinois, so I know what you are going through! 

Just now, Archy1221 said:

But it’s actually not giving us more money…..it’s actually our money in the first place that we ARE HAVING TO GIVE to the government.  So a tax cut is just us keeping more of our money instead of giving it away for a bureaucratic agency to spend on various public projects, cost centers, etc… 

 

People tend to think government has to pay for a tax break.   Not the case.  

True!

 

 

[TGHusker]

44 minutes ago, teachercd said:

Okie has tolls?  

 

Seriously, that is robbery, I grew up in Illinois, so I know what you are going through! 

Yep - a couple metro Tulsa ones as well  All of the blue lines below.  They aren''t showing the newest one around NW and West Tulsa

 

[BigRedBuster]

50 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

People tend to think government has to pay for a tax break.   Not the case.  

Yes and no.

 

Trump's tax breaks added huge amounts to the debt.  That has to be paid for.

[Archy1221]

19 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Yes and no.

 

Trump's tax breaks added huge amounts to the debt.  That has to be paid for.

I would be remiss if I didn’t push back some on this.   
 

Yes, the tax breaks initially caused debt to rise, yet that isn’t the fault of the relax break, it’s the fault of it government not budgeting based on what funds are coming in.   The excess spending is what needs to be paid for.  
 

Second, the treasury will be more than been paid pack by the enormous tax revenues brought on by the tax breaks in subsequent years according to the 2022 CBO estimates about $570 billion higher for the decade than expected.  

 

 

BTW…..to further dispel the partisan myth too many people bring to the board.   I wanted to repost this old article.
 

 https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/584190-irs-data-prove-trump-tax-cuts-benefited-middle-working-class-americans-most/amp/

 

Congressional Democrats have argued that one of the best ways to pay for the legislation is to raise taxes on wealthy households, which, according to many on the left, have benefited disproportionately and unfairly from the 2017 tax reform law passed by Republicans and signed by former President Trump. The latest data, however, proves that this claim is pure mythology.

Income data published by the IRS clearly show that on average all income brackets benefited substantially from the Republicans’ tax reform law, with the biggest beneficiaries being working and middle-income filers, not the top 1 percent, as so many Democrats have argued.

A careful analysis of the IRS tax data, one that includes the effects of tax credits and other reforms to the tax code, shows that filers with an adjusted gross income (AGI) of $15,000 to $50,000 enjoyed an average tax cut of 16 percent to 26 percent in 2018, the first year Republicans’ Tax Cuts and Jobs Act went into effect and the most recent year for which data is available.
 

Filers who earned $50,000 to $100,000 received a tax break of about 15 percent to 17 percent, and those earning $100,000 to $500,000 in adjusted gross income saw their personal income taxes cut by around 11 percent to 13 percent.

By comparison, no income group with an AGI of at least $500,000 received an average tax cut exceeding 9 percent, and the average tax cut for brackets starting at $1 million was less than 6 percent. (For more detailed data, see my table published here.)

That means most middle-income and working-class earners enjoyed a tax cut that was at least double the size of tax cuts received by households earning $1 million or more.

[BigRedBuster]

5 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

I would be remiss if I didn’t push back some on this.   
 

Yes, the tax breaks initially caused debt to rise, yet that isn’t the fault of the relax break, it’s the fault of it government not budgeting based on what funds are coming in.   The excess spending is what needs to be paid for.  
 

Second, the treasury will be more than been paid pack by the enormous tax revenues brought on by the tax breaks in subsequent years according to the 2022 CBO estimates about $570 billion higher for the decade than expected.  

 

 

BTW…..to further dispel the partisan myth too many people bring to the board.   I wanted to repost this old article.
 

 https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/584190-irs-data-prove-trump-tax-cuts-benefited-middle-working-class-americans-most/amp/

 

Congressional Democrats have argued that one of the best ways to pay for the legislation is to raise taxes on wealthy households, which, according to many on the left, have benefited disproportionately and unfairly from the 2017 tax reform law passed by Republicans and signed by former President Trump. The latest data, however, proves that this claim is pure mythology.

Income data published by the IRS clearly show that on average all income brackets benefited substantially from the Republicans’ tax reform law, with the biggest beneficiaries being working and middle-income filers, not the top 1 percent, as so many Democrats have argued.

A careful analysis of the IRS tax data, one that includes the effects of tax credits and other reforms to the tax code, shows that filers with an adjusted gross income (AGI) of $15,000 to $50,000 enjoyed an average tax cut of 16 percent to 26 percent in 2018, the first year Republicans’ Tax Cuts and Jobs Act went into effect and the most recent year for which data is available.
 

Filers who earned $50,000 to $100,000 received a tax break of about 15 percent to 17 percent, and those earning $100,000 to $500,000 in adjusted gross income saw their personal income taxes cut by around 11 percent to 13 percent.

By comparison, no income group with an AGI of at least $500,000 received an average tax cut exceeding 9 percent, and the average tax cut for brackets starting at $1 million was less than 6 percent. (For more detailed data, see my table published here.)

That means most middle-income and working-class earners enjoyed a tax cut that was at least double the size of tax cuts received by households earning $1 million or more.

There's two sides to a budget.  Income and expenses.  If you cut income without cutting expenses, the additional debt is caused by the cut in income.

 

Nebraska right now has a balanced budget amendment.  Our budget has to be balanced by law.  Now, let's say we did away with that amendment and the governor/legislature immediately cut taxes bigly.  The deficit that happens wouldn't be caused by the expenses.  It would be caused by a cut in income.

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Archy1221]

20 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

24 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

There's two sides to a budget.  Income and expenses.  If you cut income without cutting expenses, the additional debt is caused by the cut in income.

I agree.   Not to be flippant, That’s why I pointed it out in the post you just replied to 

 

20 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

Nebraska right now has a balanced budget amendment.  Our budget has to be balanced by law.  Now, let's say we did away with that amendment and the governor/legislature immediately cut taxes bigly.  The deficit that happens wouldn't be caused by the expenses.  It would be caused by a cut in income.

The portion of the year left that the cuts were signed into law and enacted would be the deficit piece you reference.  The next fiscal budget would have a base to work with.

 

Outside of tax cuts, what annoys me about budgets and I think you would agree, is the use it or lose it and don’t get a bump next year feature of our budget process.   There are far too many cost centers that end up not needing the funds allocated to them, yet “find something to spend the excess on” in order to get the increase budget for the following year.   If every cost center could be more conscious of returning in-needed money to the treasury and be bonused/rewarded for coming in under budget, things may be drastically different with our fiscal situation. 

[BigRedBuster]

 

[Danny Bateman]

11 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

What exactly did the expect to find in a diner in Texas?