The Republican Utopia

[BigRedBuster]

10 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Clinton and Obama weren't progressives. Part of the problem in America is that the Overton window has been steadily shifting to the right for decades. Here's a graphic I like to show people:

(There's a better graph like this one that's produced by a university poli-sci dept that's backed by numbers but I can't find it right now.)

 

That graphic can be very heavily manipulated depending on exactly where you put the center point and what you use to determine where that center point is.

[knapplc]

15 minutes ago, Fru said:

Kansas state rep: Black people 'responded the worst' to marijuana because of 'their genetics'

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/367987-kansas-state-rep-black-people-respond-to-marijuana-worst-off-because-of

 

 

“Basically any way you say it, marijuana is an entry drug into the higher drugs,” Alford said, as first reported by The Garden City Telegram. “What you really need to do is go back in the ’30s, when they outlawed all types of drugs in Kansas and across the United States. What was the reason why they did that? One of the reasons why, I hate to say it, was that the African-Americans, they were basically users and they basically responded the worst to those drugs just because of their character makeup, their genetics and that”

 

 

I'd like to know what research he's citing to come up with that statement, because the government hasn't studied weed, its effects, or its benefits in any kind of detail... ever.

[zoogs]

 

1 hour ago, knapplc said:

As I showed in the Twitter follow thread, I follow a number of liberal news sources.  I haven't seen anything like this from any of them.  What am I missing?

What you're missing is you need to follow more RedState bloggers.

 

9 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Admittedly, that comment was about posts on here.

Oh? Where?

 

8 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

That graphic can be very heavily manipulated depending on exactly where you put the center point and what you use to determine where that center point is.

Without endorsing that chart, RedDenver is actually making a solid point, which is that political diversity in the US is both narrow and skew quite a ways to the right. For better or for worse! The disservice here is that we don't tend to keep this in mind and interpret anything not trickle-down Reaganomics as some kind of radical Marxism.

[BigRedBuster]

3 minutes ago, zoogs said:

What you're missing is you need to follow more RedState bloggers.

Oh BS....you know me better than that.

[TGHusker]

10 hours ago, RedDenver said:

Clinton and Obama weren't progressives. Part of the problem in America is that the Overton window has been steadily shifting to the right for decades. Here's a graphic I like to show people:

(There's a better graph like this one that's produced by a university poli-sci dept that's backed by numbers but I can't find it right now.)

The graph has Bernie Sanders basically in the middle - the moderate of all moderates.  Kind of hard to believe the graph is valid.   I also find it hard to believe that Gary Johnson is a hard right - by this graph he could be a member of the alt-right.   So it would be better to supply some number's and facts behind this. 

[BigRedBuster]

14 minutes ago, zoogs said:

Oh? Where?

 

I can't seem to find them now.  But, I'm pretty sure I've read someone on here claiming that what the Dems need to do is "gain power and then vote in wide sweeping government programs so that people believe they are working for them".

 

Again, I looked through a few threads quickly and I'm not going to waste more time on it.

[funhusker]

14 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I can't seem to find them now.  But, I'm pretty sure I've read someone on here claiming that what the Dems need to do is "gain power and then vote in wide sweeping government programs so that people believe they are working for them".

 

Again, I looked through a few threads quickly and I'm not going to waste more time on it.

@dudeguyy has made those comments I'm pretty sure.  I don't remember the exact comment, but I'm pretty sure I've read them too.  He can correct me if I'm mistaken.

[zoogs]

33 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Oh BS....you know me better than that.

You literally posted one in this page. 

 

I mean, it's fine and it explains a lot if that's what your politics are -- attitudes and suspicions about "sweeping entitlement programs". It comes from a baseline that all government expenditure is bad and that we need less, not more. Paul Ryan, Republicans, etc, feel this way very strongly. It's a sinister caricature of what expanded government spending actually means, although I would argue this and said establishment GOP voices would not. 

 

So in a serious sense, a regular diet of these voices actually is what anyone who doesn't have this hair trigger threat response to Democrats is missing.

Edited January 9, 2018 by zoogs

[BigRedBuster]

12 minutes ago, zoogs said:

You literally posted one in this page. 

 

I mean, it explains a lot if that's what your politics are -- attitudes and suspicions about "sweeping entitlement programs". It comes from a baseline that all government expenditure is bad and that we need less, not more. Paul Ryan, Republicans, etc, feel this way very strongly. It's a sinister caricature of what expanded government spending actually means, although I would argue this and said establishment GOP voices would not.

 

Oh good friggen Lord.....

 

Are you talking about a tweet that quotes redstate.com?  I literally clicked on that link thinking...."wow....I've never read this site before".  And, I posted that only because I found it interesting that it uses Jake Tapper as showing there are issues with the credibility of the author (which is a valid concern).....that same Jake Tapper trump and the right accuse of being "Fake News".

 

I have repeatedly stated on here that I don't view the government as the big bad monster the far right try to make it out to be.  I have said over and over that I believe there are certain things the government needs to do and I support certain levels of social support that any modern society should have.  For instance, I have spoken out in favor of studying farther if a single payer plan for healthcare would be best for the US and I very well may get fully behind it.  I have also posted on here criticisms of the Trump administration cutting programs.

 

So...instead of actually thinking about my stances on issues that I have written about many times over a number of years on this site, you fire back with the typical rant about how horrible the "right" is and acting like I'm some form of alt right whack job.

 

By accusing me of being that right wing whack job, you in turn....have shown your really good at jumping on Democrat catch phrases and attacks of anyone who would question their ideas.

Edited January 9, 2018 by BigRedBuster

[knapplc]

11 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

By accusing me of being that right wing whack job

 

You know zoogs isn't doing that.

 

57 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Oh BS....you know me better than that.

 

This is an acceptable statement to make, but you should give zoogs the same consideration in return. 

 

You are not being attacked here.  This is much ado about nothing.

[zoogs]

You're the one saying I am accusing you of being a right-wing whackjob! 

 

I've read your stances on economic issues and I think I'm reflecting the gulf of your aversion to the Democrats' stance accurately. I've even taken pains to describe it, repeatedly, as established GOP stuff, not something on the far-right fringe.

 

I agree about the credibility of the author, actually. There are a lot of opinions circulating about it, and you were the first person to point this out to me (on here). The problem with that tweet -- again, the person whose tweet you posted is a RedState writer, and I don't mean that in an accusatory way, it's just a fact -- is that it's someone who has no affinity at all for Jake Tapper gleefully trying to package his words. RedState, for what it's worth, is a lower-grade conservative outlet that is generally opposed to Trump the man, if not to standard GOP fare. But I digress.

 

I don't actually know how you came across this tweet, and that's fair. My point is these are not the kinds of voices (e.g, very conservative) I would usually come across, directly or indirectly. If they were, I'd probably be less bewildered by your somewhat hysterical view of Democrats. Again, not accusing, I think you volunteer these views very readily, and you would feel they're accurate rather than caricatured. It would be strange to accuse a fiscal conservative of having a very conservative filter on the world. That's wholly understandable; I'm only searching for explanation here.

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

You know zoogs isn't doing that.

 

 

This is an acceptable statement to make, but you should give zoogs the same consideration in return. 

 

You are not being attacked here.  This is much ado about nothing.

Really???  Accusing me of reading right wing bloggers and basically parroting their views instead of actually thinking about what I've personally written about over the last few years on here?

 

At best, it was an extremely lazy argument trying to pigeon hole me into a corner that isn't appropriate with my views that I have clearly stated on here.

[Danny Bateman]

53 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

 

I can't seem to find them now.  But, I'm pretty sure I've read someone on here claiming that what the Dems need to do is "gain power and then vote in wide sweeping government programs so that people believe they are working for them".

 

Again, I looked through a few threads quickly and I'm not going to waste more time on it.

 

That was me. @funhusker was correct - thanks.

 

This is what happened in the 1930s and it worked wonderfully. People continue to rely on those programs and love them to this very day.

 

Albeit, it was preceded then by the Great Depression, which poisoned conservative fiscal policy for many and opened the door for these kinds of programs to flourish. But given the U.S. is likely headed for a recession sometime in the coming years...

 

I continue to think that is one of the best ways for Dems to shift the Overton window Red mentioned back to the left, reclaim their status as the party of the little guy & force the GOP to become a more moderate, responsible party.

Edited January 9, 2018 by dudeguyy

[BigRedBuster]

2 minutes ago, zoogs said:

You're the one saying I am accusing you of being a right-wing whackjob! 

 

I've read your stances on economic issues and I think I'm reflecting the gulf of your aversion to the Democrats' stance accurately. I've even taken pains to describe it, repeatedly, as established GOP stuff, not something on the far-right fringe.

 

I agree about the credibility of the author, actually. There are a lot of opinions circulating about it, and you were the first person to point this out to me (on here). The problem with that tweet -- again, the person whose tweet you posted is a RedState writer, and I don't mean that in an accusatory way, it's just a fact -- is that it's someone who has no affinity at all for Jake Tapper gleefully trying to package his words. RedState, for what it's worth, is a lower-grade conservative outlet that is generally opposed to Trump the man, if not to standard GOP fare. But I digress.

 

I don't actually know how you came across this tweet, and that's fair. My point is these are not the kinds of voices (e.g, very conservative) I would usually come across, directly or indirectly. If they were, I'd probably be less bewildered by your somewhat hysterical view of Democrats. Again, not accusing, I think you volunteer these views very readily, and you would feel they're accurate rather than caricatured. It would be strange to accuse a fiscal conservative of having a very conservative filter on the world. That's wholly understandable; I'm only searching for explanation here.

I came across this tweet because Jake Tapper actually retweeted it.

[BigRedBuster]

1 minute ago, dudeguyy said:

 

That was me. 

 

This is what happened in the 1930s and it worked wonderfully. People continue to rely on those programs and love them to this very day.

 

I continue to think that is one of the best ways for Dems to shift the Overton window Red mentioned back to the left, reclaim their status as the party of the little guy & force the GOP to become a more moderate, responsible party.

 

Thank you....now hopefully the discussion in here can get back on topic.