Tax plan

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

If it passes, the next recession just moved up its time table.

 

I'm ok with tax reform but not tax cuts. And when Republicans say "tax reform" what they mean, however they go about it, is less taxes for the rich and for corporations.

 

Then after our next recession is fixed they will blame the Democrats for "not fixing it good enough."

You're not OK with any type of tax cut at all?

Correct. Whether you look at tax rate or effective tax rate, taxes have pretty steadily gone down, and I don't for a second believe lowering taxes helps the economy. Bush cut taxes and we haven't uncut them (which is part of why it's hilarious how much teeth gnashing we had with Obama).

 

Also, the 35% corporate tax is not the effective tax rate.

 

 

Interesting.

 

So, you don't agree with any candidate that wants to give tax relief to the middle class of any kind.

 

I'm not sure if I've ever met someone who doesn't think that's a good idea. I'm guessing there are more out there. I just have never had someone say that.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

If it passes, the next recession just moved up its time table.

 

I'm ok with tax reform but not tax cuts. And when Republicans say "tax reform" what they mean, however they go about it, is less taxes for the rich and for corporations.

 

Then after our next recession is fixed they will blame the Democrats for "not fixing it good enough."

You're not OK with any type of tax cut at all?

Correct. Whether you look at tax rate or effective tax rate, taxes have pretty steadily gone down, and I don't for a second believe lowering taxes helps the economy. Bush cut taxes and we haven't uncut them (which is part of why it's hilarious how much teeth gnashing we had with Obama).

 

Also, the 35% corporate tax is not the effective tax rate.

 

Interesting.

 

So, you don't agree with any candidate that wants to give tax relief to the middle class of any kind.

 

I'm not sure if I've ever met someone who doesn't think that's a good idea. I'm guessing there are more out there. I just have never had someone say that.

 

It wouldn't make me against the candidate. Giving tax relief to the middle class/poor is way, way down on my list of negatives.

 

Giving tax relief to the rich and super rich is pretty high up, though.

[Danny Bateman]

 

Both of what you are arguing for/against is on this list. Good to see middle class on there. However, plenty of free giveaways to the rich, too. Repealing taxes on investment income, for example. That's not going to help average Joe out a whole lot. Perhaps a little.

 

The alternative minimum tax is what makes sure dirtbags like Trump who have vast amounts of money at their disposal to get the best accountants to exploit loopholes pay SOMETHING in to their taxes.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how aggressively they pursue that last item on the list... if at all. I think it's probably more rhetoric and posturing on a policy they don't truly intend to pursue.

[zoogs]

I don't think tax relief to the middle class is a critical issue. I think relief and programs directed at the poor, as well as the creation of programs to plug gaps that exist today are much higher on my list. I.e, socializing healthcare is a priority that is probably incompatible with 'significant middle class tax relief'.

 

My starting point is not an assumption that the middle class is over tax burdened (again, everyone would like to have less).

[Danny Bateman]

It's human nature to want to pay less and be attracted a plan if someone tells you that will happen.

 

The troublesome thing here is that Trump doesn't seem to care about trying to balance any of this out. He has no answer for how to recoup the government's lost revenue other than "MOAR GROWTH." As was pointed out, large cuts are going to places like the EPA, the Interior Department, and the State Department. Those are agencies we all depend on.

 

A lot of what he's proposing benefits the rich. A lot of what he wants to take away benefits all of us.

 

Nevermind the cognitive dissonance involved in being a "budget hawk" and supporting this plan + budget...

[knapplc]

Trump's 100 Days is approaching and he's done jack squat, so he's trying to figure something out that will rally people around him again.

 

 

 

 

This is basically a Hail Mary, trying to save his reputation at what has become a measuring stick moment in a White House term.

[JJ Husker]

Anybody who thinks the middle/upper middle doesn't need some tax relief either earns way too much or way too little. My taxes are f'n ridiculous. By the time I pay both shares of my fica, Medicare and 25% or more federal, the effective rate is well over 30%, over 40% if I've had a profitable year. I'm definitely for lower taxes on the middle and probably not opposed to more help for the poor. I don't think the 250+ club needs a 20% cut. What they need are fewer loopholes that allow people like Trump to effectively pay next to nothing.

 

My quarterly federal tax payments last year were about $13k, x4 that is $52k. I'm not rich, hell we can't even afford a vacation.

 

But on the other side of the coin, if I get a tax break out of this deal, it ain't going towards job creation. It's going towards my retirement. That may have a lot to do with my age though. If I was a younger business owner looking to expand, then yeah, it may go towards growing my business. But the way my taxes are right now, I could earn 50k less working for somebody else and clear just as much at the end of the year.

[knapplc]

Does that "over 40%" include deductions, El D?

[BigRedBuster]

OK...

 

 

Provide tax relief to middle income families = This is a campaign slogan that really doesn't mean much by itself.

 

Simplify tax code by going from 7 brackets to 3 = Not sure how that simplifies anything. I've never had a problem understanding 7 tax brackets.

 

Modernize tax code to help families struggling with child and dependent care = OK....I can go with that. I'll wait and see how this is done.

 

Repeal 3.8% Obamacare tax = Just a slap at Obama and a cookie for the Obama haters.

 

End Alternative Minimum Tax = Not sure why we would want to get rid of this and it's a good thing to do so.

 

Eliminate itemized deductions except Mortgage interest and charitable contributions = I'm OK with this....but need to hear more.

 

End the death tax = Good.

 

BusinessTax Reform

 

15% Tax rate = OK with this as long as it's off set with other taxes.

 

Small business owners/operators eligible for business rate = I've been in business for a long time and I'm not sure what this means. Possibly allowing sole proprietors to use corporate tax rate.

 

Territorial tax system to end penalties for companies headquartered in US = Need to hear more.

 

One time tax for Repatriation to bring back trillions of dollars from over seas = OK....

 

Eliminate tax breaks for special interests = I'm good with this. Need to hear more.

[JJ Husker]

Does that "over 40%" include deductions, El D?

I would have to go back and look at a few returns to get more precise effective rates. I'm trying to be accurate and truthful yet vague at the same time.

 

We get the mortgage interest deduction and charitable contributions. That's about it for deductions. Before it flows to me from the company, about the only possible write off/deduction would be something like accelerated depreciation on a vehicle purchase. I actually did that this past year and it helped a bunch. But I don't believe you can accelerate every year. It is a subject I need to discuss with my cpa.

[knapplc]

I'm trying to be accurate and truthful yet vague at the same time.

 

 

I understand. You've probably already said more than you should on a public forum.

[zoogs]

I think that's pretty good coverage, BRB. Appreciate you bringing in the specifics on policy.

[BigRedBuster]

I think that's pretty good coverage, BRB. Appreciate you bringing in the specifics on policy.

 

Thanks, to be clear, I took those from Dude's post above. I just added my own commentary.

[QMany]

This is a whole lot of nothing before a CBO Analysis, just like the AHCA. They'll try to ram it through on ignorant constituents before getting exposed, again.

[JJ Husker]

 

I'm trying to be accurate and truthful yet vague at the same time.

 

 

I understand. You've probably already said more than you should on a public forum.

 

Yeah but I can list actual percentages without feeling like I'm sharing too much.

These are from my 2015 return. Total Tax as a percentage.

24% of Total Income

28.8% of Adjusted Gross Income

35% of Taxable Income

 

My total tax has 2 components, the federal tax and the self employment tax.

The federal tax is 58% of the total and the SE tax is 42% of the total.

I also withdrew some IRA funds in 2015 for business purposes that I had to pay a 10% penalty on but I adjusted that penalty out of the total tax for calculating these percentages.

 

So what is my effective rate? 35%? That's what I'd say since it does say "taxable income". Of course including state income tax adds another 5%, so 40%.

 

One of the problems with being a business owner is I draw regular pay every 2 weeks and then I have to pay tax on any profits, whether or not they are distributed (paid to me). It never works to fully distribute profits. All I can hope for is to be able to distribute enough to cover the tax on the profit. So, you have to consider that I never actually see the income numbers I get taxed on. I don't wanna cry too much, I mean it is better than getting assistance and food stamps but it's still a darned high percentage IMO.