The 2020 Presidential Election - Convention & General Election

[Guy Chamberlin]

1 hour ago, FrantzHardySwag said:

Enthusiasm is overrated. Bernies best/most enthusiastic voter base actually turned out less than they did in 2016 (compared to the whole)! So apparently enthusiasm is not leading to more people going to the polls. This data + increased numbers in many states, tells me that Biden's base came out in droves.

 

 

 

Biden's base did not come out in droves for the first three primaries, nor were they trending upward in the polls. 

 

Democratic voters turned out in droves when they were given a clear choice of a candidate who could defeat Bernie Sanders.

 

That's a kind of enthusiasm, I guess. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Also, people who think Trump can't go after Biden for lies, gibberish, nepotism, or inappropriate touching simply because Trump's done worse, don't know Donald Trump and Donald Trump's base. 

[commando]

1 minute ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

Also, people who think Trump can't go after Biden for lies, gibberish, nepotism, or inappropriate touching simply because Trump's done worse, don't know Donald Trump and Donald Trump's base. 

yep.   Trump will blame Biden for not leaving any corona test kits for Don the con to use and trumps base will cheer and chant "lock him up"

[FrantzHardySwag]

24 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

That's a kind of enthusiasm, I guess. 

I mean it's the kind driving people to vote - so when talking about voting, its the best kind. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

And us Sanders supporters are going to have to consider the possibility that Bernie benefitted from Hillary Clinton's divisiveness as much as Donald Trump did in 2016.  Bernie's message was the same, but he simply wasn't as popular in the 2020 landscape.  

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

 

1)  Meh! is pretty s#!tty campaign slogan.

 

2) I'm not saying who Trump "should" fear, I'm saying who he did fear: a New Yorker who was far wealthier and who knew him far better than anyone else, and had dedicated his fortune to taking him down. 

 

3) Don't know if you're hinting at Bernie Sanders with the cult reference. I'm thinking of enthusiasm as it applied to Barack Obama and how it didn't apply to John Kerry, Al Gore and  a large segment of Hillary voters.

 

4) I can't speak to everyone, but while I knew Biden as a shoot-from-the-hip guy prone to gaffes (which I didn't really mind), I did not expect him to have such a tepid debate performances, and his recent speeches aren't really gaffes, they're awkward word salads, some comparable to the gibberish we mock from Trump. I honestly hadn't seen that before. Likewise, he recently crafted some heroic stories for himself that are almost entirely fabricated, including an elaborate tale of visiting Afghanistan to honor a Naval officer, getting arrested trying to see Nelson Mandela in prison, and a professorship at Penn, despite never teaching a class. Brian Williams lost his job at NBC for less. But maybe Joe always was this guy. I'm not talking about anything the GOP slime machine is cranking out. I'm talking about legitimate reporting from the mainstream media concerning problems Joe brings upon himself. 

 

I never tensed up watching Warren, Buttigieg, Sanders, or Klobuchar speak. I get nervous whenever I watch Joe Biden speak. Almost certain I'm not alone. 

 

 

 

¹ Of course it's a perception of him and not a campaign slogan but thanks for missing the point in bad faith, I guess?

 

² So you're just choosing to ignore the handful of links I supplied giving evidence he was clearly anxious about Biden, then?

 

³ Of course I wasn't, that referred to Trump. I don't think Biden is Kerry, Gore or Hillary for reasons you probably wouldn't care about, so that's rather moot to me.

 

⁴ I think a lot of leftists spend a lot of time in their own media bubbles, which merely serve to reinforce the existing negative perception they have of Biden they themselves helped cultivate in the primary by selectively serving up all the negative takes on Biden with none of the good stuff. And then predictably roll in here to further propagate bulls#!t being used by the GOP to attack him. Of course Biden lies. All politicians lie. None of those lies affected me. Trump's lies do because they're about how he's running the country. That's easy enough to understand, hmm?

 

Regarding the last bit, no you're not alone. But you're among a decided minority who think that matters in terms of votes.

[Danny Bateman]

1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

He's not scared at all.  He wanted Biden to be the nominee.  He has over 30 public lies over the course of 30 years that Biden has told that he gets to point out.  Much, much more ammo he can exploit than any other candidate.

 

Plus, he can point at this culture of lying and insinuate that Biden is lying about Tara Reade.

 

It's a dream come true for Trump.  Trump is also on record saying the only candidate he was truly afraid of winning the Dem nomination was Bernie.  Interesting stuff eh?  Oh well, I guess we all played into his hands on this one.

 

Again, ignore it if you like, but what you're saying just flies in the face of evidence I posted above.

 

I do tire of this quote getting misappropriated so I guess I'll have to slap it down. If you're referring to the quote from this article RedDenver posted earlier, let's examine what he actually said:

 

Quote

Among the items deemed the wildest was a comment Trump made about current 2020 Democratic candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). In the recording, Trump said he was glad former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton didn't pick Sanders as her 2020 running mate—citing his tough stance on U.S. trade policy.

 

"Because [Sanders'] a big trade guy," said Trump. "You know he basically says we're getting screwed on trade. And he's right."

"Had she picked Bernie Sanders it would've been tougher. He's the only one I didn't want her to pick," Trump told the people in the room.

 

Note how that's framed in past tense. They got the date wrong, that should say 2016 running mate.

 

Saying he did not want to run against a 2016 unity ticket is not the same as saying he didn't want to run against Sanders in 2020.

[FrantzHardySwag]

1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

He's not scared at all.  He wanted Biden to be the nominee.

 

Did we already forget he got impeached for drumming up dirt on Biden???? You can argue he shouldn't be afraid of Biden - but he most definitely is. You don't become the third president impeached for digging up dirt on "the guy you want to be the nominee".

[FrantzHardySwag]

Just now, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

Almost only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. 

 

He's not scared of a Gaffe machine that lies constantly and that is running on the platform of "I'm not Donald Trump"

 

The minute Trump points out that Biden lies just like he does...Biden loses the ability to say he's not like him.

 

If he want's to win, he has to appeal to independent voters and excite his base.  Running on "I'm not Trump" will, in my opinion, backfire splendidly.

I edited my post, he did get impeached. You seem to be just repeating your opinion, like it's Trump's and everyone else's. Trump is scared of him - or else he wouldn't risk losing his presidency trying to dig up dirt on him. No one would do that unless they were threatened. Again obviously YOU think he shouldn't be afraid of Biden - but he is.

[commando]

5 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

 

 

If he want's to win, he has to appeal to independent voters and excite his base.  Running on "I'm not Trump" will, in my opinion, backfire splendidly.

i am a independent and the "I'm not Trump" plan works splendidly for me.   

[knapplc]

Hillary was very susceptible to such cosmetic slurs as "but her emails" because she's an unlikable person. In much the same way, slurs against Bernie would stick far better than they will against Biden because he's similarly unlikable. The . So why didn't voters choose him at the ballot box? Because while they like his ideas, he as a person turns them off.

 

Biden doesn't have that problem. Even with the "creepy Joe" meme and the attempts to paint him as a rapist and serial violator, he surged in the polls and he's got a lead on Trump. Biden has always been widely regarded as a good guy. Bernie and Hillary? Exactly the opposite.

 

Despite that, and despite a 20-year campaign against Hilary, she was one Comey Letter away from defeating the cheeto.

 

I don't think Biden's going to require nearly as much nose-pinching as Hillary did in 2016. But Bernie would have, and that's why these things would work on him and not Biden. 

 

Biden is the best candidate to beat Trump in 2020. And we don't have to like that.

[knapplc]

2 minutes ago, commando said:

i am a independent and the "I'm not Trump" plan works splendidly for me.   

 

Same. Don't care if the nominee is Biden or Bernie or (god forbid) Hillary showed up at the 11th hour and got the nomination. We can't afford another four years of zero accountability and zero oversight.

[RedDenver]

9 minutes ago, knapplc said:

Biden is the best candidate to beat Trump in 2020. And we don't have to like that.

That remains to be seen.

 

I heard Hillary was the best to beat Trump all through 2015 and 2016. I've heard Biden is the best to beat Trump all through 2019 and 2020. The proof will be in the pudding.

[FrantzHardySwag]

10 minutes ago, BlitzFirst said:

 

That's kind of what this thread is for...

I conceded that you don't think Trump should be scared of Biden, that's fine. But you can't project that onto Trump, he has already proven through his actions, he is indeed scared of Biden. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

23 minutes ago, Danny Bateman said:

 

¹ Of course it's a perception of him and not a campaign slogan but thanks for missing the point in bad faith, I guess?

 

² So you're just choosing to ignore the handful of links I supplied giving evidence he was clearly anxious about Biden, then?

 

³ Of course I wasn't, that referred to Trump. I don't think Biden is Kerry, Gore or Hillary for reasons you probably wouldn't care about, so that's rather moot to me.

 

⁴ I think a lot of leftists spend a lot of time in their own media bubbles, which merely serve to reinforce the existing negative perception they have of Biden they themselves helped cultivate in the primary by selectively serving up all the negative takes on Biden with none of the good stuff. And then predictably roll in here to further propagate bulls#!t being used by the GOP to attack him. Of course Biden lies. All politicians lie. None of those lies affected me. Trump's lies do because they're about how he's running the country. That's easy enough to understand, hmm?

 

Regarding the last bit, no you're not alone. But you're among a decided minority who think that matters in terms of votes.

 

I won't deny that I'm in a bubble. But it's a suburban liberal bubble. It's most definitely not a leftist bubble. And I try to get out of the bubbles as much as I can. My posts are riddled with ideological conflict.

 

Anecdotally, virtually all my Dem friends and 100% of my wives voted for Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren. 100% of us are rooting for Biden to defeat Trump. But 100% of us are nervous about the way Biden is conducting his campaign so far. 100% of us also thought 2020 would bring us someone more inspiring than Joe Biden. 0% of us can trace these opinions to leftist and GOP attack machines.

 

I do care about the reasons you don't think Joe Biden compares to John Kerry, Al Gore, or Hillary Clinton. It goes to the case that Democrats too often unite around moderate candidates they believe will pull from moderate Republicans and independents,  rather than play to their advantage of having 20 million more registered voters — a strategy that got us John Kerry, Al Gore, and Hillary Clinton.