How Elated Are Conservatives?

[Guy Chamberlin]

Each week the vast majority of people I associate with are horrified by the direction the country is taking. 

 

The last week or so in particular: a waking nightmare. Never thought I'd live to see the day.

 

Then it occurs to me: some voters must be thrilled by all this. Right? And in much the same way -- just reversed; they never thought they'd live to see the day when every liberal sacred cow was on the run.  Everything is on the table now; hardline anti-immigration, social security and medicare, union-busting, gerrymandering the s#!t out of minority voters, Roe v Wade, any regulation you could imagine and yes....even the return of child labor. 

 

If I just switched sides, it would be like Christmas morning every morning.

 

RIght?

 

I mean, I've read the op-ed pieces of Republicans and former Republicans claiming Trump has gone too far and this does not represent the party or America, but all I'm seeing is GOP voting in lockstep for horrendously retrograde policies, with or without any goading from Trump. This is their golden hour. 

 

It's so weird how far apart we are. 

 

I just got back from a week in Nebraska. Saw good people who've been dear friends my whole life. I know they voted for Trump and have posted the most disheartening and wrong Facebook posts possible, but I didn't let the conversation go there. 

 

The need for vigilance right now is extraordinary, but I'm honestly tapped out. Don't know what to say anymore.

 

 

[TGHusker]

How in the world do you pull a quote from one thread to post in another???

 

Anyway I posted this in response to Clifford's statement:

1 hour ago, Clifford Franklin said:

 

I'm sure conservatives are in hog heaven right now. But for some of us this just feels like it's all being rammed down our throat with brute force on the whims of a President & a Congress that doesn't care about us.

 

 

 

Not all conservatives feel that way.  Some of us don't appreciate the guy who is leading and the way he is leading.  Eventually, because of his oversteps, this will reverse itself and it will be us feeling stuff being 'rammed down our throats'.  8 years ago, your statement could have been made by a conservative.   It all cycles. I'm old enough to see it.  The pendulum keeps swinging.   We as a country need people of all stripes to remain involved. 

Ecclesiastics 3 might be a good Bible read for you right now.  There is a time and a season.  

 

Sometimes I think of our political system as bowling with the gutter bumper pads that kids have when they go bowling (and based on my last game - I should use it)  Some times the ball veers to the right and sometimes to the left but those bumper pads bounce the ball back towards the middle.   What are our bumper pads??  The voters.  It isn't that our politicians are so smart over time, it is that the voters are smart over time.  We learn to correct our mistakes and we bounce back.

 

Edit: to add to the above quote - I see long term consequences for any party that overplays their hand.  While there are some conservative policies that Trump has implemented that I am ok with there are other policies that I don't agree with.  I think fair minded, clear thinking conservatives would agree.  Any Repub who is 'elated' with Trump has a short sighted view of politics and history. 

[Moiraine]

12 minutes ago, TGHusker said:

How in the world do you pull a quote from one thread to post in another???

 

 

Hit the quote button. Then you hover over the thing you're quoting. See the little cross-hair box in the upper left corner? Click that. Then cut or copy it. You can then paste in another topic.

[TGHusker]

7 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

Hit the quote button. Then you hover over the thing you're quoting. See the little cross-hair box in the upper left corner? Click that. Then cut or copy it. You can then paste in another topic.

Thanks - that worked!  Kind of off topic

[knapplc]

I think Luke 23:34 is a better verse right now, or maybe John 11:35.

[TGHusker]

4 minutes ago, knapplc said:

I think Luke 23:34 is a better verse right now, or maybe John 11:35.

Good ones.  "Father forgive them, they know not what they do".   I'm reading through John and spent some time on the story of Lazarus the other day in which the verse "Jesus Wept" comes from. 

[Guy Chamberlin]

The thing about Obama that neither side wanted to talk about was how moderate his administration was. With a handful of exceptions, it could have been a Republican administration. With a handful of exceptions, it was a continuation of the Bush administration. 

 

Nobody's rights were taken away. American business remained largely coddled. Foreign policy was mostly boilerplate, reasonable, risk-averse and non-disastrous. The ACA was watered-down healthcare following an old Republican blueprint, approved by the private insurance industry.  I don't recall anything an American couldn't do in the Obama years that they could do under the previous administration. I don't recall any group under direct attack.

 

I know some folks were horrified by the Obama presidency, but they are really short on specifics. 

 

Obviously I'm biased, but this feels like a completely different ballgame. Goes right to the bedrock of our institutions and morality. 

[knapplc]

Obama is Black.

[methodical]

Problem is policy is going to create larger and larger problems before it swings back left. 

 

I view republican leadership and policy as being based on fear.  Fear the others that aren't you, fear that businesses are going to make you jobless if government don't basically pay them to employ you by making them not pay taxes and letting them consolidate to monopolies,  or don't require livable minimum wages or strip away your rights to fight for a better deal for yourself, fear that everyone else in the world is out to screw you out of your money and freedom through taxes and legislation, and fear god is being attacked.  It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where all those things take place for 'everyone else' besides the christian right (but who cares about those people, f#&% those people, it's my country and they are ruining it). It also becomes a race to the bottom for everyone who isn't wealthy.

 

That's why these things are concerning to me.  The pain we'll have to endure before it swings back looks to me like a giant "screw you, I got mine" to everyone else from the baby boomers as they have a foot out the door and won't have to deal with their mess.  I guess all the old hippies died off.

[Danny Bateman]

51 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

The thing about Obama that neither side wanted to talk about was how moderate his administration was. With a handful of exceptions, it could have been a Republican administration. With a handful of exceptions, it was a continuation of the Bush administration. 

 

Nobody's rights were taken away. American business remained largely coddled. Foreign policy was mostly boilerplate, reasonable, risk-averse and non-disastrous. The ACA was watered-down healthcare following an old Republican blueprint, approved by the private insurance industry.  I don't recall anything an American couldn't do in the Obama years that they could do under the previous administration. I don't recall any group under direct attack.

 

I know some folks were horrified by the Obama presidency, but they are really short on specifics. 

 

Obviously I'm biased, but this feels like a completely different ballgame. Goes right to the bedrock of our institutions and morality. 

 

I agree with most of this.

 

@TGHuskerI feel like the bolded applies to your response as well.

 

I agree that many conservatives felt the way I and others do about Trump, but was it justified? I know Fox News & conservative radio got people all frothing at the mouth about every little thing he did, but honestly a lot of the time that was stuff like terrorist fist jabs (AKA fist bumps), saluting with a latte & wearing a brown suit. This is all the kind of non-serious, frivolous crap no one would get upset about unless they were programmed to do so.

 

I might be a little too close to the situation to be completely objective, too, but what's going on  now feels comparatively WAY more serious. Whether it's just strong anti-Trump sour grapes or we're legitimately backsliding as a nation is up for debate.

 

I guess my point is do we think conservative antipathy toward Obama & antipathy toward Trump are equally valid? I don't but I'd invite others to share their thoughts as well.

[45timesbetterthanemptysuit]

I am very happy that I voted for President Trump. Courts, NORKs, Iran, getting other countries to get a bit closer to contribute their promised amount to NATO, trying to put the US on equal footing WRT industry. 

[Danny Bateman]

22 minutes ago, methodical said:

Problem is policy is going to create larger and larger problems before it swings back left. 

 

I view republican leadership and policy as being based on fear.  Fear the others that aren't you, fear that businesses are going to make you jobless if government don't basically pay them to employ you by making them not pay taxes and letting them consolidate to monopolies,  or don't require livable minimum wages or strip away your rights to fight for a better deal for yourself, fear that everyone else in the world is out to screw you out of your money and freedom through taxes and legislation, and fear god is being attacked.  It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where all those things take place for 'everyone else' besides the christian right (but who cares about those people, f#&% those people, it's my country and they are ruining it). It also becomes a race to the bottom for everyone who isn't wealthy.

 

That's why these things are concerning to me.  The pain we'll have to endure before it swings back looks to me like a giant "screw you, I got mine" to everyone else from the baby boomers as they have a foot out the door and won't have to deal with their mess.  I guess all the old hippies died off.

 

A huge element to getting where we are today is the insane conservative victimhood complex that's been stoked masterfully by their media figures & ultimately by Trump for a long, long time. The way they turn every little inane thing or comment into some kind of full-blown war on conservative/Christian/Republican values is incredibly powerful for their political fortunes, and incredibly damaging & toxic for our country as a whole.

 

I'm so frustrated by the last few years there's a ton I'd like to say. But ultimately I'll just leave it at this:

 

The modern day Republican Party has become a mean-spirited, dishonest mess that clearly elevates maintaining their power above all else. They've abdicated doing what's best for the country in favor of what their donors & insiders want. They are taking every available opportunity to rig the system in their favor & they've got pretty much all the levers of power. Most of all, the culmination of their dysfunction was electing Donald Trump as their leader & our president. I wish none of this were the case, but it's where we're at, and it's going to take a long time to reverse the damage.

[JJ Husker]

I like to consider myself a conservative (more of a traditional fiscal conservative, not at all what is passing for a "conservative" today) and I am not elated. At. All.

 

I didn't vote in the primary yesterday because all of the choices were simply terrible. I pretty much can't stand any politician or either party right now. Pretty damn far from elated.

[mrandyk]

Elated? They've been conditioned to be nothing but pissed off and terrified.

[Moiraine]

11 minutes ago, mrandyk said:

Elated? They've been conditioned to be nothing but pissed off and terrified.

 

 

I was just thinking about this. They are probably working on how to keep them upset now that they've stopped the flow of Islamic Terrorists and Mexican Rapists.

Oh wait, they have the deep state and the witch hunt to be pissed off at. Everything's fine.