The 2024 Presidential Election- The LONG General Election

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

These are your statements I've adjusted the language slightly. I've indicated that impoverished rural Americans feel left behind by the current structure of federal and nonprofit means of addressing poverty and income inequality. You responded with the following messages. If "rural American's" was replaced with a different subject would you still feel comfortable asking these questions or making these statements? 

 

(African Americans) are attracted to a victimhood mentality, reinforced by the news they consume and the politicians who convince them they are being left behind. They seek someone to blame and land (wrongly) on the government, or immigrants, or inner-city yutes.

 

Do (Native Americans) blame immigrants for their problems?

Do (African Americans) blame the government for their problems?

Do (minority Americans) blame whites for their problems?

 

The fact that a population has been misled by the elite ruling class as to where the blame for their condition really lies, does not mean there is not an issue and does not mean that it should be dismissed and not addressed. I recon if you read a post stating the very same things you just said but with those subjects instead of rural Americans you would be appalled, as would I. 

 

Again, you're being defensive rather than being open to learning and letting an aggrieved population be heard. 

 

Let's pretend I have never heard of the plight of rural Americans, and you're educating me on this for the first time. Let's pretend none of the responses I've given have come from first-hand experience. This is the first time I'm hearing about this problem.

 

How do you propose to fix it?

 

 

[Born N Bled Red]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Let's pretend I have never heard of the plight of rural Americans, and you're educating me on this for the first time. Let's pretend none of the responses I've given have come from first-hand experience. This is the first time I'm hearing about this problem.

 

How do you propose to fix it?

 

 

 

Great question - do you want to fix the perception held that Democrats do nothing to support rural Americans? Or the reality of rural poverty? 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Great question - do you want to fix the perception held that Democrats do nothing to support rural Americans? Or the reality of rural poverty? 

 

Both. 

[Born N Bled Red]

2 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

Both. 

 

That'll take more time than I have now, but I'll get you an answer. Another sound bite to add to our list of things said about rural America that wouldn't be said about other populations. This was actually said to me be someone responsible for significant philanthropic giving recently.

 

"We can give less to rural areas because a dollar just goes so much further out there."

 

Could you imagine the inverse being said, "We can give less to the projects because a dollar goes so much further there."

 

A buck is a buck no matter where you spend it. What you're really saying with that statement is that, said population "should be happy with what they get, because its better than nothing, and frankly they just don't rank high on our priority list." 

[knapplc]

1 minute ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

That'll take more time than I have now, but I'll get you an answer. Another sound bite to add to our list of things said about rural America that wouldn't be said about other populations. This was actually said to me be someone responsible for significant philanthropic giving recently.

 

"We can give less to rural areas because a dollar just goes so much further out there."

 

Could you imagine the inverse being said, "We can give less to the projects because a dollar goes so much further there."

 

A buck is a buck no matter where you spend it. What you're really saying with that statement is that, said population "should be happy with what they get, because its better than nothing, and frankly they just don't rank high on our priority list." 

 

I think cost of living would disagree. As the link I provided earlier explained. 

 

[Born N Bled Red]

3 minutes ago, knapplc said:

 

I think cost of living would disagree. As the link I provided earlier explained. 

 

 

Hahaha... cost of living... that's a good one. We can talk about that later too. This is absolutely a self inflicted wound as many rural communities like to use this talking point to attract new people. Its inaccurate at best, flat wrong at worst. What are you funding

 

A building?

Lumber costs the same at the point of sale- with delivery, you're paying extra

 

Food insufficiency

You're either expending fuel to get it or have delivered. The price at Sam's Club, Hy-vee or Walmart is the same whether you have to drive it an hour to where it will be consumed or not. 

 

Medical?

- Your local doctor is farther away, is not as well equipped and if you need anything serious you have to drive to a major urban area. What's more the lack of food of nutritional value means you have more health issues and higher rates of diabetes heart issues, etc. And- you're less likely to stay up on preventative care due to distance and poor health insurance. 

 

Housing-

There is a well known and documented housing shortage in rural America which means the savings you get in buying an old rural home are likely consumed by additional heating, cooling, and maintenance expenses and then some.  

 

Cost of living is a flawed metric. 

[knapplc]

So, not only are you pretending that this is the first time any of us have heard about the plight of rural red voters and their relationship with Democrats, now you're pretending that cost of living is not largely disparate from rural to urban areas.

 

I await with bated breath the education about to drop.

[BigRedBuster]

37 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

 

Food insufficiency

You're either expending fuel to get it or have delivered. The price at Sam's Club, Hy-vee or Walmart is the same whether you have to drive it an hour to where it will be consumed or not. 

 

Medical?

- Your local doctor is farther away, is not as well equipped and if you need anything serious you have to drive to a major urban area. What's more the lack of food of nutritional value means you have more health issues and higher rates of diabetes heart issues, etc. And- you're less likely to stay up on preventative care due to distance and poor health insurance. 

 

I was really interested in this conversation since I live in rural America and I was ready to support some of your thoughts.  However, the food idea baffles me.

 

Where do you think food is produced?  When I buy a steak or chicken breast, do you think it travels farther to me or someone in NYC?  Also, you honestly think food in the city is healthier than what I consume in a small rural town?  

[Born N Bled Red]

Just now, BigRedBuster said:

I was really interested in this conversation since I live in rural America and I was ready to support some of your thoughts.  However, the food idea baffles me.

 

Where do you think food is produced?  Also, you honestly think food in the city is healthier than what I consume in a small rural town?  

 

Fun Fact, you don't eat corn and soybeans.  Here is a great scholarly article from University of Nebraska at Omaha. It's Ironic, I know- kind of like being on a boat in the ocean. Water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.

 

https://www.unomaha.edu/college-of-public-affairs-and-community-service/center-for-public-affairs-research/documents/policy-briefs/pb2014-urban-and-rural-food-deserts-in-nebraska.pdf

[RedDenver]

19 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Fun Fact, you don't eat corn and soybeans.  Here is a great scholarly article from University of Nebraska at Omaha. It's Ironic, I know- kind of like being on a boat in the ocean. Water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.

 

https://www.unomaha.edu/college-of-public-affairs-and-community-service/center-for-public-affairs-research/documents/policy-briefs/pb2014-urban-and-rural-food-deserts-in-nebraska.pdf

The post you're quoting never mentions corn or soybeans.

[Born N Bled Red]

11 minutes ago, knapplc said:

So, not only are you pretending that this is the first time any of us have heard about the plight of rural red voters and their relationship with Democrats, now you're pretending that cost of living is not largely disparate from rural to urban areas.

 

I await with bated breath the education about to drop.

 

Oh... here you go again, closed minded, condescending, and seeking to dismiss anything that doesn't fit your mindset. 

 

pretending that this is the first time any of us have heard about the plight of rural red voters and their relationship with Democrats

This was your suggestion, mate, not mine. And you said this in response to me calling out your biases. Which seem to be firmly entrenched. 

 

To your point on Cost of Living. Here is the data, you claim to want- but clearly do not read. - 

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-2/expenditures-of-urban-and-rural-households-in-2011.htm

 

• Urban households spent $7,808 (18 percent) more than rural households.
• Urban households received $15,779 (32 percent) more in yearly income than rural households.²
• Higher housing expenditures by urban consumers accounted for about two-thirds of the difference in overall spending between urban and rural households.
• Rural households spent 32 percent more on prescription and nonprescription drugs than urban households.
• Urban households spent 28 percent more on food away from home and 5 percent less on food at home than rural households. Overall, urban households spent 7 percent more on food than rural households.
• Rural households spent more on gasoline and motor oil, and spent a higher percentage of their car and truck budgets on used vehicles. In the transportation spending category, urban households spent more on airline fares.
• Although rural and urban households spent about the same on entertainment, rural households spent more on pets, and urban households spent more on fees and admissions.

 

So while yes, Urban households on average spend more per capita they NET on average nearly $8,000 more than rural households due to higher incomes. We must also take into account Urban shopping habits. Urban data is skewed due to multiple alternative shopping destinations. Target, Whole Foods, and other common Urban shopping places cost more than the dollar store and walmart and the like which are primarily the only available shopping destinations Rural people have to shop at. 

 

What's more- looking at this graph. Let's identify where Urban is spending more than rural shall we? 

 

 

Urban leads in categories most rural people really can't afford.

Personal Insurance and Pensions ( INVESTMENT)

Education (INVESTMENT)

Housing (INVESTMENT)

Food Away From Home (Luxury)

Apparel and Services (Luxury) 

 

When it comes to necessities - Rural pays more in every category but housing, which, in the city, is an investment. 

 

Thanks for playing. Since it's clear you're not up for an actual conversation. I'll leave you and your "SUPER EDUCATED" mindset with knowledge that your approach to this entire conversation is the epitome of what red voters see when they think Liberal. Condescending, dismissive, and unwilling to acknowledge their struggles. They will vote republican just to spite anyone associated with that personification as they feel they are screwed either way. At least the Rs let them keep their guns. 

 

Peace out. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

24 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Fun Fact, you don't eat corn and soybeans.  Here is a great scholarly article from University of Nebraska at Omaha. It's Ironic, I know- kind of like being on a boat in the ocean. Water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.

 

https://www.unomaha.edu/college-of-public-affairs-and-community-service/center-for-public-affairs-research/documents/policy-briefs/pb2014-urban-and-rural-food-deserts-in-nebraska.pdf

Well....mostly don't.  I do eat a lot of sweet corn in September though and both corn and soy by products are in some  foods I buy.  However, do you think transportation for meat products is more for me or someone in NYC?  How about produce?  How much fruit is produced around most of the US large cities?  Vegetables?  Does it cost more to transport oranges from Florida to Central Nebraska or Denver?  How about Tomatoes that come out of California and Baha Mexico?  Do you think someone in Chicago has less transportation for these products than I do?

 

And, I'm still baffled on the nutritional value of my food compared to someone in a city.

[Born N Bled Red]

21 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Fun Fact, you don't eat corn and soybeans.  Here is a great scholarly article from University of Nebraska at Omaha. It's Ironic, I know- kind of like being on a boat in the ocean. Water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.

 

https://www.unomaha.edu/college-of-public-affairs-and-community-service/center-for-public-affairs-research/documents/policy-briefs/pb2014-urban-and-rural-food-deserts-in-nebraska.pdf

 

Just now, RedDenver said:

The post you're quoting never mentions corn or soybeans.

 

Nor was it supposed to??? I made that comment in response to the idea that rural is where food is grown. The truth is most of the food grown in plains states needs to either be processed before eating or is grown for animal consumption. Farmers in the midwest generally do not grow produce for consumption. This is a common misconception. 

 

Please read. 

[knapplc]

3 minutes ago, Born N Bled Red said:

 

Oh... here you go again, closed minded, condescending, and seeking to dismiss anything that doesn't fit your mindset. 

 

pretending that this is the first time any of us have heard about the plight of rural red voters and their relationship with Democrats

This was your suggestion, mate, not mine. And you said this in response to me calling out your biases. Which seem to be firmly entrenched. 

 

To your point on Cost of Living. Here is the data, you claim to want- but clearly do not read. - 

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-2/expenditures-of-urban-and-rural-households-in-2011.htm

 

• Urban households spent $7,808 (18 percent) more than rural households.
• Urban households received $15,779 (32 percent) more in yearly income than rural households.²
• Higher housing expenditures by urban consumers accounted for about two-thirds of the difference in overall spending between urban and rural households.
• Rural households spent 32 percent more on prescription and nonprescription drugs than urban households.
• Urban households spent 28 percent more on food away from home and 5 percent less on food at home than rural households. Overall, urban households spent 7 percent more on food than rural households.
• Rural households spent more on gasoline and motor oil, and spent a higher percentage of their car and truck budgets on used vehicles. In the transportation spending category, urban households spent more on airline fares.
• Although rural and urban households spent about the same on entertainment, rural households spent more on pets, and urban households spent more on fees and admissions.

 

So while yes, Urban households on average spend more per capita they NET on average nearly $8,000 more than rural households due to higher incomes. We must also take into account Urban shopping habits. Urban data is skewed due to multiple alternative shopping destinations. Target, Whole Foods, and other common Urban shopping places cost more than the dollar store and walmart and the like which are primarily the only available shopping destinations Rural people have to shop at. 

 

What's more- looking at this graph. Let's identify where Urban is spending more than rural shall we? 

 

 

Urban leads in categories most rural people really can't afford.

Personal Insurance and Pensions ( INVESTMENT)

Education (INVESTMENT)

Housing (INVESTMENT)

Food Away From Home (Luxury)

Apparel and Services (Luxury) 

 

When it comes to necessities - Rural pays more in every category but housing, which, in the city, is an investment. 

 

Thanks for playing. Since it's clear you're not up for an actual conversation. I'll leave you and your "SUPER EDUCATED" mindset with knowledge that your approach to this entire conversation is the epitome of what red voters see when they think Liberal. Condescending, dismissive, and unwilling to acknowledge their struggles. They will vote republican just to spite anyone associated with that personification as they feel they are screwed either way. At least the Rs let them keep their guns. 

 

Peace out. 

 

 

So... you prove my point that cost of living is higher in urban areas (with the very data/link I was going to show you! ) which shows that cost of services provided would be higher in urban areas because those goods/services just plain cost more. You also provide a chart showing that urban/rural expenditures were nearly identical in a six-year period (per capita) but, because of this data we can very easily extrapolate that urban expenditures acquire less for the same dollars because they cost more.

 

And then you say I'm not interested in a conversation. OK. Sure.

 

But none of that explains what Democrats can do to fix the problem of rural red voters not voting for them.

[Born N Bled Red]

3 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

Well....mostly don't.  I do eat a lot of sweet corn in September though and both corn and soy by products are in a lot or foods I buy.  However, do you think transportation for meat products is more for me or someone in NYC?  How about produce?  How much fruit is produced around most of the US large cities?  Vegetables?  Does it cost more to transport oranges from Florida to Central Nebraska or Denver?  How about Tomatoes that come out of California and Baha Mexico?  Do you think someone in Chicago has less transportation for these products than I do?

 

And, I'm still baffled on the nutritional value of my food compared to someone in a city.

 

It's not about the food itself but the access to quality nutritional food. 

 

https://www.ruralhealthinfo.org/toolkits/sdoh/2/built-environment/food-access

 

Many rural areas have limited access to healthy, affordable foods. Food deserts can be found in rural areas where supermarkets or grocery stores are scarce, which directly contributes to food insecurity. These areas may instead have more convenience stores which are more likely to sell processed, shelf-stable goods rather than fresh produce. As a result, residents may have to travel to find healthy food, which can be more challenging for those without reliable access to transportation.

Rural residents who lack reliable transportation are particularly isolated, given the distance to the grocery store in rural communities and lack of public transportation options. These findings suggest the complexity of food access and its relationship to poverty and transportation.