Censorship

[teachercd]

The wiping down of the groceries!  YES!

 

 

[Archy1221]

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

I don't think I've seen the full list of what they got wrong, but they weren't wrong to take emergency measures in the early days, along with most countries.

I agree with this statement.  Unfortunately, the early days ended up being early months/early year.  And not based on science.  We actually know that the Scientists we were supposed to trust literally lied to us about more than just one or two things, of which they say it was in the interest of public safety.  
Another one of those that just came to mind was the Covid shot.   Remember when we were told it protected you AND prevented transmission???  Big props to @RedDenverfor not falling for that one, I know I did.   But guess what?  The CDC knew it didn’t?  How do we know this?  Good question, Deborah Birx finally let the cat out of the bag after studies came out showing the data and she basically had to say it.   Though she says they knew even earlier than that!  

 

This is VERY important because many people got fired for not taking the Covid shot or not allowed to attend in person school because we were told those people were responsible for transmission to others.  Turns out the vaccinated were just as responsible according to studies.  

[Lorewarn]

5 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

The ones that can’t admit many folks got things wrong in the beginning and/or the ones that said people were putting lives in danger for having alternative thoughts to the consensus but ended being correct.   
 

Had those posters been in charge of censorship, we would have silenced some correct perspectives while amplifying to incorrect ones.  This is the point Teach are and I are saying.  Just using Covid as an example.  

 

Okay, so who are they?

 

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

But I never felt betrayed by the information and warnings provided. It always was an evolving pandemic emergency, taking place on a global scale, with countries executing a full range of precautions having nothing to do with Anthony Fauci. I thought the scientists generally chose their words carefully, based on the best available information, and were not afraid to change course as better information became available. 

 

 

This is more or less where I land. The science was informed guess work and constantly evolving, and the political decision making and willpower was a very mixed bag as it always would be regardless of what players or what emergency were involved.

 

I will say, the dirt in the skateparks, hoops being taken off of public basketball courts, etc., were outrageous oversteps and left an awful taste in my mouth.

[Lorewarn]

5 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

The ones that can’t admit many folks got things wrong in the beginning and/or the ones that said people were putting lives in danger for having alternative thoughts to the consensus but ended being correct.   
 

Had those posters been in charge of censorship, we would have silenced some correct perspectives while amplifying to incorrect ones.  This is the point Teach are and I are saying.  Just using Covid as an example.  

 

Okay, so who are they?

 

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

But I never felt betrayed by the information and warnings provided. It always was an evolving pandemic emergency, taking place on a global scale, with countries executing a full range of precautions having nothing to do with Anthony Fauci. I thought the scientists generally chose their words carefully, based on the best available information, and were not afraid to change course as better information became available. 

 

 

This is more or less where I land. The science was informed guess work and constantly evolving, and the political decision making and willpower was a very mixed bag as it always would be regardless of what players or what emergency were involved.

 

I will say, the dirt in the skateparks, hoops being taken off of public basketball courts, etc., were outrageous oversteps and left an awful taste in my mouth.

[teachercd]

13 minutes ago, Lorewarn said:

 

Okay, so who are they?

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is more or less where I land. The science was informed guess work and constantly evolving, and the political decision making and willpower was a very mixed bag as it always would be regardless of what players or what emergency were involved.

 

I will say, the dirt in the skateparks, hoops being taken off of public basketball courts, etc., were outrageous oversteps and left an awful taste in my mouth.

I never saw that!  By me they just put up caution tape.

[Guy Chamberlin]

It's worth recalling that in March of 2020, our closest working example of a pandemic was the 1918-19 global Influenza outbreak that infected a third of the world's population, and killed more people than the World War that had just concluded. 

 

Also in March of 2020, I rolled my eyes at the oncoming hysteria, convinced it was merely the next Bird Flu. As I learned more, I learned I was wrong. 

 

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I think if we all compared notes, we'd realize every part of the country, down to individual cities and even neighborhoods, handled the "mandates" differently, including ignoring them completely. 

[Danny Bateman]

23 hours ago, Archy1221 said:

Did anyone actually suggest rectal administration of UV light to treat Covid? Or are you just making a funny?  We know an actual real life study was done on the trachea, but rectal?  
 

But hey, let’s just pretend everyone got everything right while we tried to mock and silence the dissenters and no need to hold anyone accountable because…..well it’s was years ago and let’s move on or something.  
 

You say you work in Healthcare.    Let me ask…..

1) was it right to treat those who didn’t want to get the Covid-19 shot the way they got treated?  Vaccine mandates for the population set that didn’t need them.  Fired, mocked on social media, not allowed to attend school considering what we knew and know?

2) was it right to keep schools closed Fall of 2020, spring of 2021, Fall if 2021 when Europe gave us school safety data in May 2020? 

 

3) was it right to have mask mandates when Fauci said the following pre-Covid:  “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”  And plenty of research has been shown that the mandates didn’t work.  
 

4). How about keeping Business’s closed past late April/Early May when researchers had a pretty good idea about transmission and who was affected the most.  Luckily we had some Governors who went against the “Scientific consensus” and allowed their States to operate responsibly.  Remember when the open up the country crowd was mocked here in HB, the traditional news media, the Demmocrat Presidential candidate, social media platforms?   Yep, me too.  
Opening the economy earlier than EU was Probably one of the biggest reasons the US is outperforming other countries in post Covid economic rates.  
 

 

I kid, I kid. But the president did suggest injecting disinfectants or administration of light as ways to combat the virus. Given that COVID affects people internally, if we’re not going in through the throat, that leaves only one option….

 

Re: your second paragraph, well, no, that’s not really how science works. By trade I am a therapist, but I also have formal training in science and am trained to think about things scientifically. Science NEVER claims to be infallible or immutable. Pretty much the entirety of scientific history is built on the basis of improving on the established understanding of how the world works.

 

They don’t care about holding people accountable. If people want to do that with whoever is in charge because of how they led with regards to the science that was decidedly still emerging during a once in a lifetime worldwide pandemic, they’ll do it. The scientists themselves don’t give a crap because that’s not their job. Their job is to do the best they can to best inform leaders the best they can in a collaborative fashion. And scientists do not  change their recommendations on a whim, but try to go on the basis of an established consensus. With good reason, too, or medical recommendations would change so frequently we’d never keep up. This is where COVID was challenging, because it was brand new and they had to develop a body of evidence in real time while exercising caution not to just recommend promising initial findings willy nilly before establishing they were in fact not misleading or flawed in some way.

 

Frankly I think those in charge during COVID were dealt a crap hand and most of them tried to do the best they could. I don’t look back and find myself bitter about the decisions made in that time period. IMO Conservative media is deeply intertwined with a persistent drumbeat that its viewers are the perpetual victim and should be eternally angry or afraid; it doesn’t affect me but I wonder if that’s part of why conservatives are so focused on accountability and vengeance on those who’ve wronged them? It’s a very Trumpian ethos.

 

To your other questions:

 

1. Not sure what you mean. I’m not familiar with specific examples. To speak only on my personal experiences, I got my jab because I was comfortable with the science and life was easy. I got COVID eventually, and after a short spell of the symptoms being rough, I recovered well. I do know others who pursued religious or medical exemptions and they did not seem that onerous. Overall I don’t think about it much because IMO scientists examined a very complex situation and tried to recommend we exercise several of the few levers of control we had available to improve the situation, with working toward herd immunity via vaccinations as a viable one.

 

2. There’s lot of data on the numerous negative effects of school closures and disruption of in person school via use of virtual schooling on the long term development of young minds. That is regrettable and hopefully we can find different ways to make up the difference had the pandemic never affected these kids. But again, I understand why they would recommend the course of action they did. Best they could hope was that most leaders made sensible decisions.

 

3. Again, I wore my mask when needed (often at work, rolling my eyes at the inconvenience at times) and life was fairly easy. My understanding of mask use is it was oftentimes not to protect me but to try to protect those around me if I was asymptomatic but infected. I work with lots of folks with compromised immune systems so I wore mine and didn’t think twice about it. I do think folks who would go viral for refusing a mask where they were required generally had a poor understanding of the role of societal consequences for their actions. I see a lot of the same with the way some folks understand the First Amendment. I.e., you can say or do whatever you want given it’s not illegal, but you’re responsible for the consequences of your own decisions.

 

4. I didn’t think about it much. I just made use of the businesses that were available. Did some

driving for Doordash during the pandemic, made a few bucks. I guess I don’t have the same memory of conservatives being ridiculed you do.

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, Danny Bateman said:

I kid, I kid. But the president did suggest injecting disinfectants or administration of light as ways to combat the virus. Given that COVID affects people internally, if we’re not going in through the throat, that leaves only one option….

 

Re: your second paragraph, well, no, that’s not really how science works. By trade I am a therapist, but I also have formal training in science and am trained to think about things scientifically. Science NEVER claims to be infallible or immutable. Pretty much the entirety of scientific history is built on the basis of improving on the established understanding of how the world works.

 

They don’t care about holding people accountable. If people want to do that with whoever is in charge because of how they led with regards to the science that was decidedly still emerging during a once in a lifetime worldwide pandemic, they’ll do it. The scientists themselves don’t give a crap because that’s not their job. Their job is to do the best they can to best inform leaders the best they can in a collaborative fashion. And scientists do not  change their recommendations on a whim, but try to go on the basis of an established consensus. With good reason, too, or medical recommendations would change so frequently we’d never keep up. This is where COVID was challenging, because it was brand new and they had to develop a body of evidence in real time while exercising caution not to just recommend promising initial findings willy nilly before establishing they were in fact not misleading or flawed in some way.

 

Frankly I think those in charge during COVID were dealt a crap hand and most of them tried to do the best they could. I don’t look back and find myself bitter about the decisions made in that time period. IMO Conservative media is deeply intertwined with a persistent drumbeat that its viewers are the perpetual victim and should be eternally angry or afraid; it doesn’t affect me but I wonder if that’s part of why conservatives are so focused on accountability and vengeance on those who’ve wronged them? It’s a very Trumpian ethos.

 

To your other questions:

 

1. Not sure what you mean. I’m not familiar with specific examples. To speak only on my personal experiences, I got my jab because I was comfortable with the science and life was easy. I got COVID eventually, and after a short spell of the symptoms being rough, I recovered well. I do know others who pursued religious or medical exemptions and they did not seem that onerous. Overall I don’t think about it much because IMO scientists examined a very complex situation and tried to recommend we exercise several of the few levers of control we had available to improve the situation, with working toward herd immunity via vaccinations as a viable one.

 

2. There’s lot of data on the numerous negative effects of school closures and disruption of in person school via use of virtual schooling on the long term development of young minds. That is regrettable and hopefully we can find different ways to make up the difference had the pandemic never affected these kids. But again, I understand why they would recommend the course of action they did. Best they could hope was that most leaders made sensible decisions.

 

3. Again, I wore my mask when needed (often at work, rolling my eyes at the inconvenience at times) and life was fairly easy. My understanding of mask use is it was oftentimes not to protect me but to try to protect those around me if I was asymptomatic but infected. I work with lots of folks with compromised immune systems so I wore mine and didn’t think twice about it. I do think folks who would go viral for refusing a mask where they were required generally had a poor understanding of the role of societal consequences for their actions. I see a lot of the same with the way some folks understand the First Amendment. I.e., you can say or do whatever you want given it’s not illegal, but you’re responsible for the consequences of your own decisions.

 

4. I didn’t think about it much. I just made use of the businesses that were available. Did some

driving for Doordash during the pandemic, made a few bucks. I guess I don’t have the same memory of conservatives being ridiculed you do.