ZRod Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 45 minutes ago, nic said: I looked a little at the history. States were moving in the direction of allowing abortions in certain circumstances in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Up to 17 by the time Roe v Wade occurred. Did I read that right? Sounds like things were moving forward. Then Roe declared 26 weeks with states to decide on the third trimester….I think. I wonder if it wouldn’t have been better to let the states keep moving. We would probably be settled like Europe with most countries between 15 and 20 weeks, then you need special circumstances. It will settle, but there will be states that end up like Portugal with more restrictions. RvW said no restrictions in the first trimester, reasonable medical restrictions in the second, and that states could ban it in the third so long as there were exceptions for health and safety of the mother. I think I made a compelling argument of why this should not be left up to the states, but if Europe is your model then what European countries have left abortion up to their regional governments? 2 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 11 hours ago, Danny Bateman said: It means I like people to make their own medical decisions instead of the government making them for them. So what about the decision I proposed to you? Would that be fine? 1 Link to comment
funhusker Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 55 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: So what about the decision I proposed to you? Would that be fine? If you can find just one licensed medical provider that would abort a healthy pregnancy one day before a due date, I'll answer the question. 2 Link to comment
nic Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 11 hours ago, ZRod said: RvW said no restrictions in the first trimester, reasonable medical restrictions in the second, and that states could ban it in the third so long as there were exceptions for health and safety of the mother. I think I made a compelling argument of why this should not be left up to the states, but if Europe is your model then what European countries have left abortion up to their regional governments? Each country is different. I think Finland is 12 weeks but looking to loosen that. Portugal is 10 weeks. Denmark was in the mid to high teens, and you go before a judge after that. It varies. Our states will vary as well when all is said and done. RvW was on precarious ground. Even RGB said so. This will flush out. I would not support a law that completely restricts abortions. I would not support one that allows them any time for any reason either. 15 weeks seems right to me, with restrictions after that. Maybe there will be a national law again, but I am not holding my breath. Link to comment
nic Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 I guess this is where we are these days. I am sure it happens from both sides. "Last night one of our canvassers wearing my T-shirt and a Desantis hat was brutally attacked by 4 animals who told him Republicans weren’t allowed in their neighborhood in #Hialeah #Florida," Rubio posted. "He suffered internal bleeding, a broken jaw & will need facial reconstructive surgery." 1 Link to comment
funhusker Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, nic said: I guess this is where we are days. I am sure it happens from both sides. "Last night one of our canvassers wearing my T-shirt and a Desantis hat was brutally attacked by 4 animals who told him Republicans weren’t allowed in their neighborhood in #Hialeah #Florida," Rubio posted. "He suffered internal bleeding, a broken jaw & will need facial reconstructive surgery." Or maybe not... https://www.yahoo.com/video/marco-rubio-canvasser-notorious-white-221500922.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHo77en1hmkAJWX3bGtWIaeE4CpNAOCVLVh8ohy5UJPMfqZqIW0DDe5Bi5ghluyDE7Pg1rF1FMjEbjQLKfZeWtJ8HHF493jee6qfVhAVUiqVpRguZlruI6BssZYEwJWBuBBKH7iGRBGbcOkWWJHr0XTFlz-dqriEdoixWVW77iw_ 3 Link to comment
TGHusker Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 6 hours ago, BigRedBuster said: Poor snowflake. She talks tough and walks out when challenged. 1 1 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 6 hours ago, funhusker said: If you can find just one licensed medical provider that would abort a healthy pregnancy one day before a due date, I'll answer the question. Fair enough, change the timeframe then to 27 weeks into a healthy pregnancy? 1 Link to comment
funhusker Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 24 minutes ago, Archy1221 said: Fair enough, change the timeframe then to 27 weeks into a healthy pregnancy? That’s not what the conversation was about. Why do we have to change it? Is what you originally asked about not a real thing? 2 Link to comment
Archy1221 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, funhusker said: That’s not what the conversation was about. Figured something like that would be the answer. 1 Link to comment
nic Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 17 hours ago, ZRod said: RvW said no restrictions in the first trimester, reasonable medical restrictions in the second, and that states could ban it in the third so long as there were exceptions for health and safety of the mother. I think I made a compelling argument of why this should not be left up to the states, but if Europe is your model then what European countries have left abortion up to their regional governments? Not a congressional election topic, but sort of related to this discussion. It takes some guts to pull this off. I also didn't realize the EU could overrule a soverign countries court decisions. A French woman performed a topless act in which she aborted Jesus in the La Madeleine Church in Paris. A national court found her guilty of “sexual display” and ordered her to pay the parish 2,000 euros in addition to her one-month prison sentence. Now, the European Court of Human Rights has overturned this verdict. https://cne.news/artikel/1856-european-court-acquits-woman-who-advocated-abortion-toplessly-in-church Link to comment
ZRod Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 7 hours ago, nic said: Each country is different. I think Finland is 12 weeks but looking to loosen that. Portugal is 10 weeks. Denmark was in the mid to high teens, and you go before a judge after that. It varies. Our states will vary as well when all is said and done. RvW was on precarious ground. Even RGB said so. This will flush out. I would not support a law that completely restricts abortions. I would not support one that allows them any time for any reason either. 15 weeks seems right to me, with restrictions after that. Maybe there will be a national law again, but I am not holding my breath. Which countries have left abortion to their regional governments? Link to comment
nic Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 22 minutes ago, ZRod said: Which countries have left abortion to their regional governments? The countries have become "regional governments" under the EU. and we are a republic. You are just going to have to accept it. Maybe the US Congress makes a national law, but I doubt it. The courts shouldn't make laws. 1 1 Link to comment
ZRod Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, nic said: The countries have become "regional governments" under the EU. and we are a republic. You are just going to have to accept it. Maybe the US Congress makes a national law, but I doubt it. The courts shouldn't make laws. That's the copout I was looking for... Which countries have left it up to regional governments? Link to comment
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