The Latest Quarterback Thread

[Hercules]

And honestly - the saddest thing about this whole mess is that some of our best athletes are receivers - and we have no way to get them the ball. When was the last time we could say that? Enunwa, Turner, Bell, Reed (even Kinnie is making great grabs now) - all completely wasted out there. We should just add another linemen or two and forget about the receivers.

 

It would be a shame to waste one of the best receiving corps we've had in... ever. It's still early in the careers of Bell, Enunwa and Turner, but boy do they look good when we get them the ball.

 

That's another reason why I'm sick of all the comparisons to Osborne's triple option offense. Who were our wide receivers back then? With all due respect to those guys, does anyone even remember?

 

Irving Fryar, Clester Johnson, Abdul Muhammad, Reggie Baul, Shevin Wiggins, Brendan Holbein, Bobby Newcombe, Matt Davison...

 

Not to mention tight ends Sheldon Jackson, Eric Alford, Johnny Mitchell

 

 

People trying to compare our talent level right now to the talent Osborne had, at any position, kind of goes to show how bad the last decade has been.

[Hammerhead]

And honestly - the saddest thing about this whole mess is that some of our best athletes are receivers - and we have no way to get them the ball. When was the last time we could say that? Enunwa, Turner, Bell, Reed (even Kinnie is making great grabs now) - all completely wasted out there. We should just add another linemen or two and forget about the receivers.

 

It would be a shame to waste one of the best receiving corps we've had in... ever. It's still early in the careers of Bell, Enunwa and Turner, but boy do they look good when we get them the ball.

 

That's another reason why I'm sick of all the comparisons to Osborne's triple option offense. Who were our wide receivers back then? With all due respect to those guys, does anyone even remember?

 

Irving Fryar, Clester Johnson, Abdul Muhammad, Reggie Baul, Shevin Wiggins, Brendan Holbein, Bobby Newcombe, Matt Davison...

 

Not to mention tight ends Sheldon Jackson, Eric Alford, Johnny Mitchell

 

 

People trying to compare our talent level right now to the talent Osborne had, at any position, kind of goes to show how bad the last decade has been.

 

FWIW, I do vaguely remember most of those guys (Fryar was before my time, but I was thinking more in terms of during the mid-90's.) Just saying that other than Fryar, I don't remember any of them playing in the NFL. It's too early to say whether or not the receivers we have now will end up being NFL caliber, but I'd say they have a good chance.

[huskerstuckinmichigan]

The problem is that Martinez isn't THAT good of a runner. He has straight line speed. He doesn't know how to juke or break tackles. I think of Crouch's 95 yard scramble against Mizzou. Ever seen Taylor move side to side like that? Or how Frost and Frazier would run through and over people breaking tackles as they go or laying to wood to the defender. Ever seen Taylor do that? No. He runs through a giant hole fast, other than that, he's not even a runner.

 

I understand being frustrated with a guy who's not leading us to victories, but this isn't even remotely true. I've watched Taylor lower his shoulder several times this year, and that's despite the fact that coaches have told him to avoid contact. He did it several times last year as well. Further, he's juked guys out of their socks several times - most notably the shoulder/ball fake against the Washington linebacker in the third quarter, and there are plenty of other examples.

 

It's clear you're not in love with Martinez as a quarterback and that's OK, you don't have to be a huge fan. But if you're going to critique him and be taken seriously it helps if you talk about actual flaws. You're just making stuff up here, and that's no way to hold a conversation.

 

And I can see you are a serious T-mart sunshine pumper. So, lets talk actual flaws then. How about the fact that Taylor NEVER go's through his progressions, he locks on to his primary receiver everytime. How many times does he fumble or throw a pick? He makes horrible decisions a lot. The he is still developing argument is getting past it's time, he flat out isn't improving. I am not saying Brion is the answer, we haven't seen hardly anything of him to make a guess one way or another. It just seems that according to you, no one has the right to question T-marts ability without getting attacked by you. I am sorry, but T-mart isn't that good at all, and if he is the best we have, it's going to be a long next few years.

[Igetbored216]

What do people want to see from Taylor as far as his actual play (not intangibles) on the field against Ohio State?

 

1) I wouldn't complain if he looked at more than one WR when passing

2) It may also be beneficial not to always try to run away when there is actually no pressure on him

3) Also, don't run right into the teeth of the defense when trying to escape on a passing play..RUN AROUND THE BIG GROUP OF PLAYERS IN THE MIDDLE OF FIELD TOWARDS THE OPEN PART OF THE FIELD

4) Don't fumble

5) Make the first defender make a decision while running the option play. Don't pitch it as soon as the defender looks like he may be coming at Taylor

6) Kind of related to number one, but don't lock onto the receiver you are throwing to

7) Don't try to make a huge play every single play

[knapplc]

And I can see you are a serious T-mart sunshine pumper. So, lets talk actual flaws then. How about the fact that Taylor NEVER go's through his progressions, he locks on to his primary receiver everytime. How many times does he fumble or throw a pick? He makes horrible decisions a lot. The he is still developing argument is getting past it's time, he flat out isn't improving. I am not saying Brion is the answer, we haven't seen hardly anything of him to make a guess one way or another. It just seems that according to you, no one has the right to question T-marts ability without getting attacked by you. I am sorry, but T-mart isn't that good at all, and if he is the best we have, it's going to be a long next few years.

 

I will absolutely agree that I am a "serious sunshine pumper." If that means I stick by our team, our players and our coaches through ANYTHING (short of Lawrence Phillips/Thunder Collins), then I'm guilty. The question is, why aren't you?

 

 

 

How about the fact that Taylor NEVER go's through his progressions, he locks on to his primary receiver everytime.

How about that fact? It is a fact, I'll agree - or at best, he rarely goes through his progressions. But have you stopped to wonder why that is? Is it solely because "he sucks?" Is it, by any chance at all, how he's been coached? Is it possible that this isn't a strong part of his game, so coaches have counseled him not to even try? Is it possible that he's so used to having an O Line that blocks about as well as the Maginot Line that he has no confidence that he actually has time to go through progressions? Is it bad that he doesn't go through progressions? Absolutely. Are there explanations for why he doesn't? Absolutely. It doesn't forgive him entirely, but it helps to understand the whole of the situation, not just "Taylor sucks."

 

 

How many times does he fumble or throw a pick?

Too. Damned. Many. Times. Totally agree that he has to take better care of the ball. This is bogus, and he has to improve, yesterday. Has to.

 

 

He makes horrible decisions a lot.

Yes he does. And he knows he does - God knows he can't go anywhere without people reminding him.

 

 

The he is still developing argument is getting past it's time, he flat out isn't improving.

Utter balderdash. He's a sophomore. At this point in his career he should be seeing mop-up duty behind our stud QB. But we don't have a stud QB because we failed in recruiting (and we had a coaching change) so he's out there failing publicly when he should be learning and getting ready. Only true phenoms should be starting as a freshman or a sophomore, and we can all agree that Taylor is NOT a phenom - at least not passing, or in ball control. But to the argument that he isn't improving, that's hogwash. He's better now than he was this time last year. Bo has said so, quite publicly, and if you take off the "I hate Taylor" blinders you can see it yourself. He has not fixed several areas of his game (most glaringly turnovers), but he has definitely improved in his command of the offense, in his command of the huddle, and in his ability to check out of a play. He's reading defenses better - he's just not great at it yet. Last year he couldn't do it very well at all. This year he does it quite a bit, and usually makes the correct reads, if you believe Beck. If you don't believe Beck, then I'd love to hear an actual analysis of how he hasn't improved, other than pissed-off hysteria.

 

I am not saying Brion is the answer

You know who is saying Brion is not the answer? Bo Pelini. And Brion will tell you that, if you ask him. I would invite you to approach him and talk to him - he's very easy to talk to, and he's very personable. He'll tell you who the QB of this team is (here's a hint - he won't tell you it's him).

 

It just seems that according to you, no one has the right to question T-marts ability without getting attacked by you.

Oh, boo hoo. Cry me a river. Because I can refute most of the angst-driven arguments with reasoning and with quotes and facts, I'm now "attacking" people? Give me a break. Grow a skin as thick as you expect Martinez to have. What a load of hooey.

 

I am sorry, but T-mart isn't that good at all, and if he is the best we have, it's going to be a long next few years.

Bo disagrees with you. I'll take his word on it.

[Malth]

And then the apologists start talking about Frazier and Crouch.

 

T. Frazier wasn't even a 50% passer and that why he couldn't win too.

You, sir, are an apologist.

 

 

bbbbbut FRAZIER!

[Roark]

I thought it was against board rules to start calling our players names? Even if not, it's childish. Sure Taylor flat out sucked, but don't go gradeschool on him.

 

No name calling? It's about time... I find "T-Magic" reprehensible.

[Saunders]

I thought it was against board rules to start calling our players names? Even if not, it's childish. Sure Taylor flat out sucked, but don't go gradeschool on him.

 

No name calling? It's about time... I find "T-Magic" reprehensible.

Cool. Make sure you tell his family that.

 

Also, way to completely miss the point.

[Roark]

I thought it was against board rules to start calling our players names? Even if not, it's childish. Sure Taylor flat out sucked, but don't go gradeschool on him.

 

No name calling? It's about time... I find "T-Magic" reprehensible.

Cool. Make sure you tell his family that.

 

Also, way to completely miss the point.

 

 

Oh, I'm gonna. Maybe his dad will mention me in another one of his op-eds to ESPN.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Go knapplc go!

[BigWillie]

 

I am not saying Brion is the answer

You know who is saying Brion is not the answer? Bo Pelini. And Brion will tell you that, if you ask him. I would invite you to approach him and talk to him - he's very easy to talk to, and he's very personable. He'll tell you who the QB of this team is (here's a hint - he won't tell you it's him).

 

Next time you see Brion, ask him to tell you how he performs in comparison to Taylor Martinez everyday at practice. Ask him how he performed in comparison to Taylor during the fall scrimmages, especially the final fall scrimmage.

 

Heck, tell him that you heard he did pretty good against the 1st team D in that final fall scrimmage. I bet you see his face light up, but downplay what happened.

 

Brion isn't Tommie, who would have been bluntly honest no matter what. Brion especially would never sellout a teammate like that.

[Hercules]

If Brion is that good, why isn't he playing? Why would Bo say publicly that there's a pretty wide gap between him and Taylor right now? Why would Pelini sabotage his own team/career for no apparent reason? Why would he refuse to bench a starter when he's done so at every position on the team, including QB, and including Taylor?

 

Makes no sense at all. Not buying the "Brion is better" stuff.

[zoogs]

Why would Bo say publicly that there's a pretty wide gap between him and Taylor right now?

 

Well, this one is a no-brainer.

 

What else should Bo say? "Yeah, there's a QB controversy. Those guys are pretty close. Everyone should question the starter at the first sign of failure, because it probably means we should try out the other guy."

 

I don't think Brion is better equipped than Taylor to start right now either, but this one should not be a question.

[Blackshirt39]

If Brion is that good, why isn't he playing? Why would Bo say publicly that there's a pretty wide gap between him and Taylor right now? Why would Pelini sabotage his own team/career for no apparent reason? Why would he refuse to bench a starter when he's done so at every position on the team, including QB, and including Taylor?

 

Makes no sense at all. Not buying the "Brion is better" stuff.

 

Brion isn't the better individual player, but may be healthier for the team right now. With Martinez in the game, Beck and Bo can't see past his "Big-Play" ability. The first quarter of the game last week, they were taking what Wisconsin's D was giving them, and moving the ball with a pretty good balance. But in the 2Q, they got impatient and started looking for the "Big Play." I think having Brion in the game would hand cuff their playcalling and force the issues of ball control and game management into the coach's heads. We would also rely on our other skill positions to make the plays instead of the QB. There really isn't a better time than now to try a switch with a tOSU team with even more problems than we have in town and a bye week followed by Minnesota, who is one of the worst teams in the country right now. Okay I'm off of my soapbox now.

[zoogs]

I think the opposite, Blackshirt.

 

I think Brion in the game would open up the playcalling. Taylor in the game would - well, should - handcuff the playcalling, maybe more than it has been. We would be able to try different things and try to get the ball to the WRs and RBs more. The downside is, Brion will probably struggle as he gets his feet wet and develops, and fans will call for Taylor back. Even if Bo does sense that a change *could* benefit the team right now, I don't see it as a good idea because of the risk of throwing a young QB in a situation like that. I don't think, given how it has been handled so far (Taylor being the rock solid incumbent), that there is any way to properly make a QB switch unless Taylor completely fails, and fails hard, over the course of several games. That is what it should take for an incumbent as rock solid as Taylor has been, for his backup to be able to enter the job and not be in a crappy situation all around.

 

For that to happen, though, this season is going to have to get really ugly first. I do not want that at all, and am rooting for the team to continue rallying around Taylor and pull out of this. I want Taylor to carry us through this season as best as he is able. We - and by that I mean the fans and the staff as well - can have an evaluation and a discussion about the QB position in the offseason, IMO.