The Latest Quarterback Thread

[The Maudfather]

That's a good point, and yet another thing to lay at the feet of this coaching staff. Carnes should have some reps by now, more than he already has. If Martinez does go down, Carnes gets totally thrown to the wolves, and that sucks.

 

Couldn't agree more, same thing happened with Crouch and his Heisman chase, no reps ever for the backup and then the next year we saw what happened. My concern with Martinez is that the ankle still seems to be limiting him. He has no lateral cutting ability and doesn't seem like he can get up to top speed near as fast as he did before. His ball security has been much better when he is able to prepare for taking a hit, but still carries it way too loosely prior.

How does his ankle still seem to be limiting him? His ankle looks just fine to me.

[BayareaHusker]

I agree, Martinez is terrible right now, he needs to sit and bring in Brion. He threw 3 ints without even scanning the field and looking for receivers and for those of you that say this is completely coaches, yeah it is in some sense but he audibled into those pass plays and threw 3 ints that got wiscy 21 points.

[Saunders]

I agree, Martinez is terrible right now, he needs to sit and bring in Brion. He threw 3 ints without even scanning the field and looking for receivers and for those of you that say this is completely coaches, yeah it is in some sense but he audibled into those pass plays and threw 3 ints that got wiscy 21 points.

Ha.... no.

[BayareaHusker]

I agree, Martinez is terrible right now, he needs to sit and bring in Brion. He threw 3 ints without even scanning the field and looking for receivers and for those of you that say this is completely coaches, yeah it is in some sense but he audibled into those pass plays and threw 3 ints that got wiscy 21 points.

Ha.... no.

you must have been watching a different game than me then

[Saunders]

I agree, Martinez is terrible right now, he needs to sit and bring in Brion. He threw 3 ints without even scanning the field and looking for receivers and for those of you that say this is completely coaches, yeah it is in some sense but he audibled into those pass plays and threw 3 ints that got wiscy 21 points.

Ha.... no.

you must have been watching a different game than me then

Yeah, the real life one were he didn't audible into a pass on every one of his picks...

[junior4949]

On the three INT's, did Wisconsin ever get the ball on our half of the field? I don't remember. What if we had punted on those drives and they started in similar spots on the field? The INT's were bad, but the leaky defense was the killer. I'm still fighting with myself as to what was more difficult to watch: last Saturday against Wisconsin or 2004 Texas Tech. The play calling was horrid.

[Hammerhead]

I don't think we should bench TM right now. However if TM continues to make poor decisions and show little or no improvement, I really think it's time to bench TM and start Brion as QB. Here's why:

 

1) Turner, Bell, and Enunwa are three young, outstanding wide receivers. I think Brion is a much better, more natural passer than TM. In the long run, I think Brion will be able to do a much better job of distributing the ball to these WR's than TM.

 

2) TM has shown little improvement. From what I can see, TM hasn't been making much improvement with regard to his decision-making. If he hasn't improved much by now, then he'll probably never improve much in this area. People -- including commentators -- sometimes say that he's young, but that's really not totally true. Had he not taken a red shirt, he would be a junior now, and he's had almost a full year of starting.

 

By starting Brion, obviously our running attack isn't as strong, but I think Brion is a reasonably good runner, and he is a much better scrambler than TM. What we gain in passing outweighs what we lose in running.

 

While Brion probably won't do better than TM at first, I think that he has a much higher ceiling.

 

Finally, TM doesn't have leadership qualities. I think he's improved in this area since last year, but he's still a relatively weak leader, on and off the field.

 

This pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say. This is a much more eloquent way to say it. I would just add the word "much" between passing and outweighs. "What we gain in passing MUCH outweighs what we lose in running"

 

It just sucks that TO & Frank were so stupid playing those qbs (Frost, Frazier, Crouch, etc) who were FAR, FAR better runners than passers. They obviously didn't know squat about cfb!

 

It's really paying off for us right now though, isn't it?

[BayareaHusker]

I agree, Martinez is terrible right now, he needs to sit and bring in Brion. He threw 3 ints without even scanning the field and looking for receivers and for those of you that say this is completely coaches, yeah it is in some sense but he audibled into those pass plays and threw 3 ints that got wiscy 21 points.

Ha.... no.

you must have been watching a different game than me then

Yeah, the real life one were he didn't audible into a pass on every one of his picks...

I didn't say on every play, I said he audibled into pass plays which is true! and he threw 3 picks that gave wiscy 21 points, which is also true!

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

I havent read through this thread so I dont really know what has been said, but with all respect, Martinez cannot throw. The uproar has been large from this game because he threw 3 picks in a big game, but in all reality he hasnt thrown well in any of the games this season, or any game for that matter. Yes, he had a good game against OkSt, but he often had loads of time to throw and his first read was open.

 

I am not really ready to throw Martinez under the bus, but there has to come a point where we draw the line between having a QB that can be a homerun threat with his legs, and having a proficient passing attack(which I do not see happening anytime with Taylor under center.)

[BayareaHusker]

I havent read through this thread so I dont really know what has been said, but with all respect, Martinez cannot throw. The uproar has been large from this game because he threw 3 picks in a big game, but in all reality he hasnt thrown well in any of the games this season, or any game for that matter. Yes, he had a good game against OkSt, but he often had loads of time to throw and his first read was open.

 

I am not really ready to throw Martinez under the bus, but there has to come a point where we draw the line between having a QB that can be a homerun threat with his legs, and having a proficient passing attack(which I do not see happening anytime with Taylor under center.)

I agree, I just think it's time to get Brion some consistent reps at least

[bshirt]

I don't think we should bench TM right now. However if TM continues to make poor decisions and show little or no improvement, I really think it's time to bench TM and start Brion as QB. Here's why:

 

1) Turner, Bell, and Enunwa are three young, outstanding wide receivers. I think Brion is a much better, more natural passer than TM. In the long run, I think Brion will be able to do a much better job of distributing the ball to these WR's than TM.

 

2) TM has shown little improvement. From what I can see, TM hasn't been making much improvement with regard to his decision-making. If he hasn't improved much by now, then he'll probably never improve much in this area. People -- including commentators -- sometimes say that he's young, but that's really not totally true. Had he not taken a red shirt, he would be a junior now, and he's had almost a full year of starting.

 

By starting Brion, obviously our running attack isn't as strong, but I think Brion is a reasonably good runner, and he is a much better scrambler than TM. What we gain in passing outweighs what we lose in running.

 

While Brion probably won't do better than TM at first, I think that he has a much higher ceiling.

 

Finally, TM doesn't have leadership qualities. I think he's improved in this area since last year, but he's still a relatively weak leader, on and off the field.

 

This pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say. This is a much more eloquent way to say it. I would just add the word "much" between passing and outweighs. "What we gain in passing MUCH outweighs what we lose in running"

 

It just sucks that TO & Frank were so stupid playing those qbs (Frost, Frazier, Crouch, etc) who were FAR, FAR better runners than passers. They obviously didn't know squat about cfb!

 

It's really paying off for us right now though, isn't it?

 

Yeah, when we pretend we're Texas Tech it pays off in spades.

[Hammerhead]

I don't think we should bench TM right now. However if TM continues to make poor decisions and show little or no improvement, I really think it's time to bench TM and start Brion as QB. Here's why:

 

1) Turner, Bell, and Enunwa are three young, outstanding wide receivers. I think Brion is a much better, more natural passer than TM. In the long run, I think Brion will be able to do a much better job of distributing the ball to these WR's than TM.

 

2) TM has shown little improvement. From what I can see, TM hasn't been making much improvement with regard to his decision-making. If he hasn't improved much by now, then he'll probably never improve much in this area. People -- including commentators -- sometimes say that he's young, but that's really not totally true. Had he not taken a red shirt, he would be a junior now, and he's had almost a full year of starting.

 

By starting Brion, obviously our running attack isn't as strong, but I think Brion is a reasonably good runner, and he is a much better scrambler than TM. What we gain in passing outweighs what we lose in running.

 

While Brion probably won't do better than TM at first, I think that he has a much higher ceiling.

 

Finally, TM doesn't have leadership qualities. I think he's improved in this area since last year, but he's still a relatively weak leader, on and off the field.

 

This pretty much sums up what I've been trying to say. This is a much more eloquent way to say it. I would just add the word "much" between passing and outweighs. "What we gain in passing MUCH outweighs what we lose in running"

 

It just sucks that TO & Frank were so stupid playing those qbs (Frost, Frazier, Crouch, etc) who were FAR, FAR better runners than passers. They obviously didn't know squat about cfb!

 

It's really paying off for us right now though, isn't it?

 

Yeah, when we pretend we're Texas Tech it pays off in spades.

 

Here's the problem: even when you're a run-first offense, you still have to pass now and then. Crouch, Frazier, et al. were by no means great passers, but they could at least find open receivers when they had to. Not only that, but those guys A) had a huge, physical offensive line that could've taken down the Great Wall of China if they were asked to, and B) had more than just speed in the bag.

 

I wasn't a fan of Beck's pass-happy play-calling either, and I'm not implying that the run was being stopped all that efficiently by Wisconsin in the rare occasions that we actually went back to it, but there are situations in which the run just isn't working. When that situation comes up, we can't rely on Taylor's running ability to get the job done, and you and I both know we sure as hell can't rely on his passing ability either.

[knapplc]

Here's the problem: even when you're a run-first offense, you still have to pass now and then. Crouch, Frazier, et al. were by no means great passers, but they could at least find open receivers when they had to. Not only that, but those guys A) had a huge, physical offensive line that could've taken down the Great Wall of China if they were asked to, and B) had more than just speed in the bag.

 

I wasn't a fan of Beck's pass-happy play-calling either, and I'm not implying that the run was being stopped all that efficiently by Wisconsin in the rare occasions that we actually went back to it, but there are situations in which the run just isn't working. When that situation comes up, we can't rely on Taylor's running ability to get the job done, and you and I both know we sure as hell can't rely on his passing ability either.

 

 

But why were Crouch, Frazier et al so successful? Because often they were throwing to wide-open receivers because the defense was so concerned about stopping the run. If we're going to be an effective team passing with Martinez we have to prove to the opponent that we can run on them at will, and then the passing game simplifies. We haven't done that yet.

[Hammerhead]

Here's the problem: even when you're a run-first offense, you still have to pass now and then. Crouch, Frazier, et al. were by no means great passers, but they could at least find open receivers when they had to. Not only that, but those guys A) had a huge, physical offensive line that could've taken down the Great Wall of China if they were asked to, and B) had more than just speed in the bag.

 

I wasn't a fan of Beck's pass-happy play-calling either, and I'm not implying that the run was being stopped all that efficiently by Wisconsin in the rare occasions that we actually went back to it, but there are situations in which the run just isn't working. When that situation comes up, we can't rely on Taylor's running ability to get the job done, and you and I both know we sure as hell can't rely on his passing ability either.

 

 

But why were Crouch, Frazier et al so successful? Because often they were throwing to wide-open receivers because the defense was so concerned about stopping the run. If we're going to be an effective team passing with Martinez we have to prove to the opponent that we can run on them at will, and then the passing game simplifies. We haven't done that yet.

 

Hopefully we'll start seeing that out of our freshman RBs soon.

[knapplc]

Absolutely. And it's a Line thing, too, and an OC playcalling thing. You have to be stubborn that you're going to pound that rock, and we weren't.

 

Beck is about as wishy-washy as a punch to the gut, so I expect to see him get this going. But I doubt we ever see a prolific passing game from Martinez, I think. That's just not his thing.