The Latest Quarterback Thread

[HUSKER FREAK]

I don't think it would have been terrible to put Carnes in for a series or two to let Martinez collect his bearings and calm down.

I understand what you're saying, but do you wonder what that would do further to his mental status? He would then start wondering if he just lost the starting job and we'd be going down that road now. I agree with Brion getting some snaps, it'll only help him and I myself wondered why Martinez was out there in the 4th quarter. We obviously weren't going to win that game so get some other guys some experience, protect your starters no matter how crappy they played, and look forward to next week.

This is when you need a QB coach that is not your OC and can be down on the field to help calm nerves. Martinez was rattled and needed to collect his thoughts and acually see what was going on 2nd hand instead of up front. I'm not calling for Carnes to be the starter from here on out, just thought it would have been a good move to let Martinez sit a series or two to calm down and get Carnes in there.

 

This is exactly what I thought as well. He is young also, but the change for a series would have helped I think. If Martinez is that mentally frail then I don't think he should be our QB. I do not want to throw T-mart under the bus, but wasting another QB on the bench is just as bad IMO.

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

Absolutely. And it's a Line thing, too, and an OC playcalling thing. You have to be stubborn that you're going to pound that rock, and we weren't.

 

Beck is about as wishy-washy as a punch to the gut, so I expect to see him get this going. But I doubt we ever see a prolific passing game from Martinez, I think. That's just not his thing.

But dont you think that there comes a time where that needs to be his "thing" for us to be successful? We dont have the personnel to absolutely tear competition apart with the run game like we did in the glory days. At that time we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. I dont mind pounding the rock all game, but bottom line is, if we need a 2 min drill the length of the field to win the game, we might as well close up shop. We dont need a Peyton Manning arm, nor do we need Michael Vick legs, we need a QB that is that, a quarterback.

[hskerprid]

Remember a few years back when we had a touted QB transfer to NU? He kept playing and wasn't benched even through ineptness. The head coach said that the back-up and starter were pretty equal. Remembner when the starter received a broken collar bone and the back-up came in and lit the scoreboard up? The back-up then proceeded to become one of NU's most prolific passers.

 

I just hope that we aren't seeing something like this develop again. I don't think Bo is a bull**** artist like the afore mentioned head coach. I certainly hope this sticking with the starter isn't stubbornness showing up with our staff. NU needs to get the back-up reps...period. Who knows we may have another Joey standing on the sidelines

[gobiggergoredder]

 

 

But why were Crouch, Frazier et al so successful? Because often they were throwing to wide-open receivers because the defense was so concerned about stopping the run. If we're going to be an effective team passing with Martinez we have to prove to the opponent that we can run on them at will, and then the passing game simplifies. We haven't done that yet.

 

 

When are we going to stop comparing him to the two best QB's in the history of the program? Crouch not only was faster, he could actually make a move. He didn't need a 'Dump Truck' size opening at the line of scrimmage. Tommie Frazier had a career of playmaking. Neither of them could throw any better than Martinez. Their throwing abilities are all even as far as I'm concerned.

 

He isn't Crouch.

He isn't Frazier.

They don't run anything that even resembles that offense.

[bdubb75]

I think the biggest issue with Taylor is that he makes a ton of mistakes. He's fumbled 2 dozen times and the often times just throws it up when things go bad. He panics. It's not that he's not talented or skilled, he's just not cool headed enough to be the QB at a big time school that is looking to to win a title whether it be Big10 or Natl title. We need somebody who is a dual threat and I honestly don't think that Taylor is that guy.

[HuskerBCS]

Im gonna jump in on this one. Ill start of by saying that I think Martinez sucks as a quarterback. I don't think he is the answer and if we want to have success in the future, it will be with a different qb. People have said it before here that Martinez is a straight line runner, I agree 100% with this. He has no lateral skills. Sure he is fast, really fast. He is probably the worst passer in all FBS. I believe he should be on the field but playing a different position. THAT BEING SAID....I DON'T THINK HE SHOULD BE BENCHED, YET.

 

My question is.....How long do you give Martinez before going in a different direction?

 

Martinez has had a year and a half to gain experience and he is still making the same mistakes. People say this is a completely different offense, I don't think so. I believe it is the same offense as last year which has been scaled back and added a few wrinkles in (option, no huddle, pistol). Are we gonna get into the beginning of next season and still be hearing this argument that he is still learning? How much time do you give him. Im looking for a definitive answer cause anyone can say that eventually you would make a change if Martinez doesn't improve but there has to be a time line or else you could use this excuse until he is a senior.

[knapplc]

 

 

But why were Crouch, Frazier et al so successful? Because often they were throwing to wide-open receivers because the defense was so concerned about stopping the run. If we're going to be an effective team passing with Martinez we have to prove to the opponent that we can run on them at will, and then the passing game simplifies. We haven't done that yet.

 

When are we going to stop comparing him to the two best QB's in the history of the program? Crouch not only was faster, he could actually make a move. He didn't need a 'Dump Truck' size opening at the line of scrimmage. Tommie Frazier had a career of playmaking. Neither of them could throw any better than Martinez. Their throwing abilities are all even as far as I'm concerned.

 

He isn't Crouch.

He isn't Frazier.

They don't run anything that even resembles that offense.

 

If you would have grabbed the full quote string you would have seen that I wasn't the one who made that comparison.

 

Absolutely. And it's a Line thing, too, and an OC playcalling thing. You have to be stubborn that you're going to pound that rock, and we weren't.

 

Beck is about as wishy-washy as a punch to the gut, so I expect to see him get this going. But I doubt we ever see a prolific passing game from Martinez, I think. That's just not his thing.

But dont you think that there comes a time where that needs to be his "thing" for us to be successful? We dont have the personnel to absolutely tear competition apart with the run game like we did in the glory days. At that time we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. I dont mind pounding the rock all game, but bottom line is, if we need a 2 min drill the length of the field to win the game, we might as well close up shop. We dont need a Peyton Manning arm, nor do we need Michael Vick legs, we need a QB that is that, a quarterback.

 

If we're going down that road, don't we also have to go down the road that it has to be "the thing" of our O Line to blow up opposing defenses, too? There are a lot of positions out there that need to develop a different "thing" for us to relive the success we used to enjoy.

 

And again, I can't believe we have to keep saying this - you don't have to be able to pass to be a successful college quarterback. This is not the NFL. You can succeed by running at this level. We proved that for decades.

[trouble]

 

 

But why were Crouch, Frazier et al so successful? Because often they were throwing to wide-open receivers because the defense was so concerned about stopping the run. If we're going to be an effective team passing with Martinez we have to prove to the opponent that we can run on them at will, and then the passing game simplifies. We haven't done that yet.

 

When are we going to stop comparing him to the two best QB's in the history of the program? Crouch not only was faster, he could actually make a move. He didn't need a 'Dump Truck' size opening at the line of scrimmage. Tommie Frazier had a career of playmaking. Neither of them could throw any better than Martinez. Their throwing abilities are all even as far as I'm concerned.

 

He isn't Crouch.

He isn't Frazier.

They don't run anything that even resembles that offense.

 

If you would have grabbed the full quote string you would have seen that I wasn't the one who made that comparison.

 

Absolutely. And it's a Line thing, too, and an OC playcalling thing. You have to be stubborn that you're going to pound that rock, and we weren't.

 

Beck is about as wishy-washy as a punch to the gut, so I expect to see him get this going. But I doubt we ever see a prolific passing game from Martinez, I think. That's just not his thing.

But dont you think that there comes a time where that needs to be his "thing" for us to be successful? We dont have the personnel to absolutely tear competition apart with the run game like we did in the glory days. At that time we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. I dont mind pounding the rock all game, but bottom line is, if we need a 2 min drill the length of the field to win the game, we might as well close up shop. We dont need a Peyton Manning arm, nor do we need Michael Vick legs, we need a QB that is that, a quarterback.

 

If we're going down that road, don't we also have to go down the road that it has to be "the thing" of our O Line to blow up opposing defenses, too? There are a lot of positions out there that need to develop a different "thing" for us to relive the success we used to enjoy.

 

And again, I can't believe we have to keep saying this - you don't have to be able to pass to be a successful college quarterback. This is not the NFL. You can succeed by running at this level. We proved that for decades.

 

You still have to be able to hit open receivers when asked to do so. I saw MULTIPLE times where we had guys running WIDE open on Saturday and Martinez either throws it way behind them and misses the read completely. I'm sorry, but yes you don't need to be able to pass 20-30 times a game to be successful but when you are throwing it 10-15 times you should be able to complete at least half of those. Martinez is completely failing on reads and has not improved what so ever. I'm all for supporting our players but there comes a point where they just need to start getting better. He has not shown that yet.

[Joe_5700]

On the three INT's, did Wisconsin ever get the ball on our half of the field? I don't remember. What if we had punted on those drives and they started in similar spots on the field? The INT's were bad, but the leaky defense was the killer. I'm still fighting with myself as to what was more difficult to watch: last Saturday against Wisconsin or 2004 Texas Tech. The play calling was horrid.

 

BINGO.

[knapplc]

You still have to be able to hit open receivers when asked to do so. I saw MULTIPLE times where we had guys running WIDE open on Saturday and Martinez either throws it way behind them and misses the read completely. I'm sorry, but yes you don't need to be able to pass 20-30 times a game to be successful but when you are throwing it 10-15 times you should be able to complete at least half of those. Martinez is completely failing on reads and has not improved what so ever. I'm all for supporting our players but there comes a point where they just need to start getting better. He has not shown that yet.

Absolutely agree. Missed checkdowns, bad passes to wide-open receivers, underthrown balls, fumbles - these are all legitimate things he HAS TO fix. There's no other way to say it.

[3rd and long]

 

 

But why were Crouch, Frazier et al so successful? Because often they were throwing to wide-open receivers because the defense was so concerned about stopping the run. If we're going to be an effective team passing with Martinez we have to prove to the opponent that we can run on them at will, and then the passing game simplifies. We haven't done that yet.

 

When are we going to stop comparing him to the two best QB's in the history of the program? Crouch not only was faster, he could actually make a move. He didn't need a 'Dump Truck' size opening at the line of scrimmage. Tommie Frazier had a career of playmaking. Neither of them could throw any better than Martinez. Their throwing abilities are all even as far as I'm concerned.

 

He isn't Crouch.

He isn't Frazier.

They don't run anything that even resembles that offense.

 

If you would have grabbed the full quote string you would have seen that I wasn't the one who made that comparison.

 

Absolutely. And it's a Line thing, too, and an OC playcalling thing. You have to be stubborn that you're going to pound that rock, and we weren't.

 

Beck is about as wishy-washy as a punch to the gut, so I expect to see him get this going. But I doubt we ever see a prolific passing game from Martinez, I think. That's just not his thing.

But dont you think that there comes a time where that needs to be his "thing" for us to be successful? We dont have the personnel to absolutely tear competition apart with the run game like we did in the glory days. At that time we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. I dont mind pounding the rock all game, but bottom line is, if we need a 2 min drill the length of the field to win the game, we might as well close up shop. We dont need a Peyton Manning arm, nor do we need Michael Vick legs, we need a QB that is that, a quarterback.

 

If we're going down that road, don't we also have to go down the road that it has to be "the thing" of our O Line to blow up opposing defenses, too? There are a lot of positions out there that need to develop a different "thing" for us to relive the success we used to enjoy.

 

And again, I can't believe we have to keep saying this - you don't have to be able to pass to be a successful college quarterback. This is not the NFL. You can succeed by running at this level. We proved that for decades.

 

That all depends on your definition of successful. If you are content to win eight or nine games and go to mid-level bowl then yes. If you want to compete for the MNC I believe you have to be able to throw the ball, and throw it with a measure of compentcy. We did prove for decades that you can win running the ball....decades ago (decade and a half actually). Look back at the last 20 or so national champions and see how many of them could not throw the efficently.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to anwser me honestly. If, and it's a big if, we have a compent defense, do you really think TM can or will develope into a QB who can lead a team to wins in big games over top quality opponents?

[HuskerBCS]

And again, I can't believe we have to keep saying this - you don't have to be able to pass to be a successful college quarterback. This is not the NFL. You can succeed by running at this level. We proved that for decades.

 

The only problem with this is that coaches these days (see Beck and Watson) seem to think otherwise. I would give anything to run 80% of the time. I think you can be very successful doing this. Martinez could be very successful in an offense like that. Good luck convincing our coaches though. Beck proved my greatest fear against Wisconsin in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. He is just like Watson in that he is going to "take what the defense gives" instead of "taking what we want." This is what I hated most with Watson. Who cares if you think you can throw against certain opponents. If you are a running team, you run the ball, regardless of what the opponent gives you. I don't think our game plan should ever change much offensively from game to game. I certainly don't think Osborne did this. I guess I just don't understand how you can go from being a passing team in one game and then a running team in the next game. It is impossible to switch like this.

 

Knapplc....you talked about how our Oline would have to change the way they play and it would have to become "their thing" again to blow up defenses. Have you ever thought about how tough it is to change your mentality from pass blocking on your heels, to attacking in run blocking? If one game we are always passing and the line is being passive in the blocking, on their heels, how can we expect them to flip a switch the next game or even next series and just blow the opponent off the ball. Seems like it'd be pretty difficult to me. Id rather they just attack the entire game, every game.

[knapplc]

That all depends on your definition of successful. If you are content to win eight or nine games and go to mid-level bowl then yes. If you want to compete for the MNC I believe you have to be able to throw the ball, and throw it with a measure of compentcy. We did prove for decades that you can win running the ball....decades ago (decade and a half actually). Look back at the last 20 or so national champions and see how many of them could not throw the efficently.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to anwser me honestly. If, and it's a big if, we have a compent defense, do you really think TM can or will develope into a QB who can lead a team to wins in big games over top quality opponents?

Tommie Frazier and his career 50% completion rate say "Hello!"

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

 

 

But why were Crouch, Frazier et al so successful? Because often they were throwing to wide-open receivers because the defense was so concerned about stopping the run. If we're going to be an effective team passing with Martinez we have to prove to the opponent that we can run on them at will, and then the passing game simplifies. We haven't done that yet.

 

When are we going to stop comparing him to the two best QB's in the history of the program? Crouch not only was faster, he could actually make a move. He didn't need a 'Dump Truck' size opening at the line of scrimmage. Tommie Frazier had a career of playmaking. Neither of them could throw any better than Martinez. Their throwing abilities are all even as far as I'm concerned.

 

He isn't Crouch.

He isn't Frazier.

They don't run anything that even resembles that offense.

 

If you would have grabbed the full quote string you would have seen that I wasn't the one who made that comparison.

 

Absolutely. And it's a Line thing, too, and an OC playcalling thing. You have to be stubborn that you're going to pound that rock, and we weren't.

 

Beck is about as wishy-washy as a punch to the gut, so I expect to see him get this going. But I doubt we ever see a prolific passing game from Martinez, I think. That's just not his thing.

But dont you think that there comes a time where that needs to be his "thing" for us to be successful? We dont have the personnel to absolutely tear competition apart with the run game like we did in the glory days. At that time we were bigger and stronger than everyone else. I dont mind pounding the rock all game, but bottom line is, if we need a 2 min drill the length of the field to win the game, we might as well close up shop. We dont need a Peyton Manning arm, nor do we need Michael Vick legs, we need a QB that is that, a quarterback.

 

If we're going down that road, don't we also have to go down the road that it has to be "the thing" of our O Line to blow up opposing defenses, too? There are a lot of positions out there that need to develop a different "thing" for us to relive the success we used to enjoy.

 

And again, I can't believe we have to keep saying this - you don't have to be able to pass to be a successful college quarterback. This is not the NFL. You can succeed by running at this level. We proved that for decades.

Well I guess that is where we agree to disagree, I think that the caliber of talent has changed, or rather improved on every other squad that running only will only get you so far with success. I think its important to note that our QB's which had success for years running the ball had a distinct running style. I am not really sure how to explain it. Crouch, Frost, Fraiser, etc, they were running backs. They had a running style. Taylor has speed, but when the option to the short side of the field is closed, he slows up and braces for a hit. He doesn't really have the ability to juke or power his way for the extra yard or two. I guess it comes down to the opportunity cost of Taylor hitting the big one occasionally to being stopped for a loss or no gain more often.

[knapplc]

And again, I can't believe we have to keep saying this - you don't have to be able to pass to be a successful college quarterback. This is not the NFL. You can succeed by running at this level. We proved that for decades.

 

 

Knapplc....you talked about how our Oline would have to change the way they play and it would have to become "their thing" again to blow up defenses. Have you ever thought about how tough it is to change your mentality from pass blocking on your heels, to attacking in run blocking? If one game we are always passing and the line is being passive in the blocking, on their heels, how can we expect them to flip a switch the next game or even next series and just blow the opponent off the ball. Seems like it'd be pretty difficult to me. Id rather they just attack the entire game, every game.

 

Yes, I have, which is exactly why I posted that in response to a comment that Martinez needs to become a passing quarterback to succeed. This is what we're asking Martinez to do - heck, it's what we asked him to do between the first and second quarters Saturday. We went from a team predominantly running the ball to a team that passed on something-teen successive plays. That is not putting him in a position to succeed.