How good can we be with TM under center next year?

[Pedro Guerrero]

You're right. He passed Tommie Frazier and moved to third place on Nebraska's career total yards list by the end of his sophomore year due to luck alone. No skill whatsoever.

 

He already has more attempts through 2 seasons then Tommie had in his whole career, passing him on the career yardage list is a little bit overrated.

[Mavric]

The "terrible coaching" I was talking about in that sequence had less to do playcalling and more to do with clock management. If I recall correctly, we started the drive conservative, ran a bunch of clock off and looked as if we were just trying to get to the locker room. THEN we all of a sudden launched one downfield that got picked. Maybe the coaches were just trying to run the clock out and Taylor took things into his own hands, which would be on Taylor.

You do not recall correctly. That "drive" started on our own 16 yard line with 52 seconds left in the half. Martinez ran for six yards on the first play (I don't recall if that was a called run or a scramble) then the INT came on the next play. Clock management was not the issue.

 

So we called a draw, and then didn't call a timeout, and then threw downfield? How does that make any sense in terms of clock management? If you're going to let the clock burn, why would you call a pass? If you're going to try to score, why would you call a draw and then not call a timeout?

Becasue, particularly at that point in the season, we are not a great passing team. Trying to complete 3-4 passes for about 50 yds (to get into field goal range) wasn't very likely. We run it once to burn the clock down so we don't go three incompletions and have to punt it back to them with 40 seconds left to work. Then we take one shot just to see what happens.

[zoogs]

Herc, I did not know that you considered the QB the most important position on the field for what we run.

 

I think it's the most important "single" position. The OL is the most important position group, but that's really 5 positions, not just one.

 

The QB is responsible for an awful lot though in our offense though. I think Taylor receives fair criticism in many ways (what bugs me most is that his biggest critics aren't equally critical of every other player on the field), but he receives hardly any credit for some of the things he does pretty well. For example, from what I understand, one of the things Taylor has done pretty well this year is checking in and out of plays in order to get the offense into the best play given what the defense is showing. That's a HUGE part of being QB that the fans never talk about, or even understand.

 

I think we agree about the QB's role in the offense, and especially how important that aspect of being a quarterback is.

 

Not being able to check out of a bad play based on what the defense was showing(or, taking what the defense gives us) was a big reason I did not feel like he should start in '10. I think he was given more lattitude to do so this year, and probably improved a great deal from last year. But last year, it was an issue and a serious liability, IMO. I'm skeptical that he suddenly transformed to very good in that area. I'm sure he has improved, I just don't know if it's reached a solid point yet, or if he's still learning and getting the hang of it.

 

Recognizing blitzes and coverages still seems to be an issue, but of course, I'd defer to more qualified opinions than mine.

[husker_99]

How good can we be with TM under center next year?

 

I think the answer to that question lies more with Tim Beck than it does with Martinez. Martinez is a known quantity. We all know what he can do and can't do. He runs really, really fast in a straight line, passes just OK with that weird motion, lacks lateral movement, lacks pocket presence and does the strangest things going into contact that I've just about ever seen, you know, that stutter step cringe thing standing straight up. If that is the horse you are going to ride then it's up to Beck to maximize the run really, really fast in a straight line part so that threat is there constantly for the defense and throw in enough of a passing game to keep people honest.

 

Running in a straight line isn't an offense, so you can't expect beck to "roll" with that alone.... I agree with your assessment/description of Martinez's play, he is a QB who is lacking quite a bit in many areas.... If Martinez does not show significant improvement by the middle of next year, you would have to think that the staff would look at a different option right? I am hoping that Taylor can make the necessary improvements, but if he doesn't then he has to sit.... and this is coming from a guy who has been in full support of the Martinez project....

 

I would agree that Martinez needs to make strides or else be replaced. He's a 3 year starter and things need to really start coming together for him and if not Carnes deserves a shot. Also we need a wrs coach who can coach our receivers to actually catch the ball.

 

I thought Fisher did a nice job this year, and there was definite improvement.... How do you coach a WR to catch the ball? I get teaching them technique, but to actually coach them to "catch" it would be difficult....In my opinion that is all on the receiver if the ball is catchable....

 

I haven't seen one other teams wrs drop as many catches as we have. I mean it's like 50/50 that they even catch it even when it hits them in the numbers. either recruit better wrs or find a better way to teach them to catch it.

[lo country]

How good can we be with TM under center next year?

 

I think the answer to that question lies more with Tim Beck than it does with Martinez. Martinez is a known quantity. We all know what he can do and can't do. He runs really, really fast in a straight line, passes just OK with that weird motion, lacks lateral movement, lacks pocket presence and does the strangest things going into contact that I've just about ever seen, you know, that stutter step cringe thing standing straight up. If that is the horse you are going to ride then it's up to Beck to maximize the run really, really fast in a straight line part so that threat is there constantly for the defense and throw in enough of a passing game to keep people honest.

 

Running in a straight line isn't an offense, so you can't expect beck to "roll" with that alone.... I agree with your assessment/description of Martinez's play, he is a QB who is lacking quite a bit in many areas.... If Martinez does not show significant improvement by the middle of next year, you would have to think that the staff would look at a different option right? I am hoping that Taylor can make the necessary improvements, but if he doesn't then he has to sit.... and this is coming from a guy who has been in full support of the Martinez project....

 

I think at least he could concentrate on perfecting their read option game instead of trying to run him down the line in a traditional option so much. That's most of what I was getting at. Oregon stresses defenses with their spacing and speed. Nebraska has some personnel that could do the same type of thing.

 

Martinez IS NOT an option QB. He is not a physical enough runner to hit the edge, nor is he aggressive enough to make the D bite. I agree with the zone read. Work on his reads and if the seam is there, his crazy straight ahead speed is good for big gains. I also agree with wider splits. It would allow a "larger window" for Martinez to see the receivers, not allow the D to crowd the LOS as much and help the O line out as well. No idea why we hardly use the hurry up save 2 plays in a series. Michicken was on their heels and then Beck stops. We need to go up tempo the whole game, give our O line and team a chance to get into a rhythm and negate the size of those 320 lbs D lines in the B1G and make it a negative for them to be so big. Bo talked about all season making them change to us, but all I see and read now is we need to become bigger (slower) and find guys to stuff the run. Fine. We need this on D, BUT go up tempo on O and make their big fat D line man suck wind and quit come the third quarter.

[zoogs]

I haven't seen one other teams wrs drop as many catches as we have. I mean it's like 50/50 that they even catch it even when it hits them in the numbers. either recruit better wrs or find a better way to teach them to catch it.

 

I won't argue much about the WR coach, I don't know too much about him and his qualifications seem slim. But our WRs are as promising as we have had in a long, long, *long* time. They are young and working at getting better. It's a bit tough on them though, when we don't throw much and have such an inconsistent QB.

 

This isn't mentioned enough about the drops, but a big part of the equation is the trust and rapport that must exist between QB and WR. When it's not there, even talented players (at either position) will struggle. These receivers don't know what to expect from Taylor because let's face it, his throws are real inconsistent. Sometimes it'll be on the mark, sometimes it'll be really off. Jamal talked briefly about receivers not knowing what kind of ball to expect the week after the Minnesota game.

 

We ride the WRs hard for the drops, but forget all the times they bailed their QB out by making a big-time adjustment and getting to the ball.

[B.B. Hemingway]

How good can we be with TM under center next year?

 

I think the answer to that question lies more with Tim Beck than it does with Martinez. Martinez is a known quantity. We all know what he can do and can't do. He runs really, really fast in a straight line, passes just OK with that weird motion, lacks lateral movement, lacks pocket presence and does the strangest things going into contact that I've just about ever seen, you know, that stutter step cringe thing standing straight up. If that is the horse you are going to ride then it's up to Beck to maximize the run really, really fast in a straight line part so that threat is there constantly for the defense and throw in enough of a passing game to keep people honest.

 

Running in a straight line isn't an offense, so you can't expect beck to "roll" with that alone.... I agree with your assessment/description of Martinez's play, he is a QB who is lacking quite a bit in many areas.... If Martinez does not show significant improvement by the middle of next year, you would have to think that the staff would look at a different option right? I am hoping that Taylor can make the necessary improvements, but if he doesn't then he has to sit.... and this is coming from a guy who has been in full support of the Martinez project....

 

I think at least he could concentrate on perfecting their read option game instead of trying to run him down the line in a traditional option so much. That's most of what I was getting at. Oregon stresses defenses with their spacing and speed. Nebraska has some personnel that could do the same type of thing.

 

I agree that the read option was underutlized this year, but Martinez did get better that the traditional option....It makes no sense, because Martinez is one of the best I've seen at hiding the football in the RB's belly until the last second.... Hopefully we will incorporate it more into the offense next year....

[B.B. Hemingway]

How good can we be with TM under center next year?

 

I think the answer to that question lies more with Tim Beck than it does with Martinez. Martinez is a known quantity. We all know what he can do and can't do. He runs really, really fast in a straight line, passes just OK with that weird motion, lacks lateral movement, lacks pocket presence and does the strangest things going into contact that I've just about ever seen, you know, that stutter step cringe thing standing straight up. If that is the horse you are going to ride then it's up to Beck to maximize the run really, really fast in a straight line part so that threat is there constantly for the defense and throw in enough of a passing game to keep people honest.

 

Running in a straight line isn't an offense, so you can't expect beck to "roll" with that alone.... I agree with your assessment/description of Martinez's play, he is a QB who is lacking quite a bit in many areas.... If Martinez does not show significant improvement by the middle of next year, you would have to think that the staff would look at a different option right? I am hoping that Taylor can make the necessary improvements, but if he doesn't then he has to sit.... and this is coming from a guy who has been in full support of the Martinez project....

 

I would agree that Martinez needs to make strides or else be replaced. He's a 3 year starter and things need to really start coming together for him and if not Carnes deserves a shot. Also we need a wrs coach who can coach our receivers to actually catch the ball.

 

I thought Fisher did a nice job this year, and there was definite improvement.... How do you coach a WR to catch the ball? I get teaching them technique, but to actually coach them to "catch" it would be difficult....In my opinion that is all on the receiver if the ball is catchable....

 

I haven't seen one other teams wrs drop as many catches as we have. I mean it's like 50/50 that they even catch it even when it hits them in the numbers. either recruit better wrs or find a better way to teach them to catch it.

 

50/50 is stretching it a bit, but I get your point.... I don't think it is the coaching, what about the drops shows lack of technique? Nothing, that I have seen, so therefore it falls on the wide receivers for the drops.... Players make plays....

[B.B. Hemingway]

I haven't seen one other teams wrs drop as many catches as we have. I mean it's like 50/50 that they even catch it even when it hits them in the numbers. either recruit better wrs or find a better way to teach them to catch it.

 

I won't argue much about the WR coach, I don't know too much about him and his qualifications seem slim. But our WRs are as promising as we have had in a long, long, *long* time. They are young and working at getting better. It's a bit tough on them though, when we don't throw much and have such an inconsistent QB.

 

This isn't mentioned enough about the drops, but a big part of the equation is the trust and rapport that must exist between QB and WR. When it's not there, even talented players (at either position) will struggle. These receivers don't know what to expect from Taylor because let's face it, his throws are real inconsistent. Sometimes it'll be on the mark, sometimes it'll be really off. Jamal talked briefly about receivers not knowing what kind of ball to expect the week after the Minnesota game.

 

We ride the WRs hard for the drops, but forget all the times they bailed their QB out by making a big-time adjustment and getting to the ball.

 

There are a lot of times that the WRs have bailed out Martinez, but a lack of throws their way is no excuse for dropping the ball.... They get plenty of balls thrown their way in practice.... I thought the drops were an isolated situation for the most part, *cough* Brandon Kinnie *cough*

[Hunter94]

maybe they need a Niles Paul drill in practice?

[Mavric]

We ride the WRs hard for the drops, but forget all the times they bailed their QB out by making a big-time adjustment and getting to the ball.

There are a lot of times that the WRs have bailed out Martinez, but a lack of throws their way is no excuse for dropping the ball.... They get plenty of balls thrown their way in practice.... I thought the drops were an isolated situation for the most part, *cough* Brandon Kinnie *cough*

Apparently I am forgetting all the big-time adjustments the WRs made to bail Martinez out. Maybe someone can remind me of a few.

[zoogs]

maybe they need a Niles Paul drill in practice?

 

Nah, the "Jamal drill" is enough

 

The drops weren't isolated to Kinnie. Plenty of guys got flak for it. Some of it is fair, some of it was for plays where it was a really tough to catch ball. But I think even the ones where it hits the guy in his hands and it drops - yes, that's his fault. But it also shows a lack of trust between QB and WR. And it goes back to an inconsistent ball coming from the QB, in my opinion. There's a little bit of both.

[lo country]

maybe they need a Niles Paul drill in practice?

 

Nah, the "Jamal drill" is enough

 

The drops weren't isolated to Kinnie. Plenty of guys got flak for it. Some of it is fair, some of it was for plays where it was a really tough to catch ball. But I think even the ones where it hits the guy in his hands and it drops - yes, that's his fault. But it also shows a lack of trust between QB and WR. And it goes back to an inconsistent ball coming from the QB, in my opinion. There's a little bit of both.

 

The same route, 10 times results in the ball thrown in 10 different places. That is hard on a receiver no matter who you are.

[bshirt]

maybe they need a Niles Paul drill in practice?

 

Nah, the "Jamal drill" is enough

 

The drops weren't isolated to Kinnie. Plenty of guys got flak for it. Some of it is fair, some of it was for plays where it was a really tough to catch ball. But I think even the ones where it hits the guy in his hands and it drops - yes, that's his fault. But it also shows a lack of trust between QB and WR. And it goes back to an inconsistent ball coming from the QB, in my opinion. There's a little bit of both.

 

Ridiculous.

 

There doesn't need to be any cum-bye-ya karma between the qb & wr. The ball hits the wr's hands, he supposed to catch it. Period.

[nhuskers5]

That's really what your coming back with? What's he going to say? I'm not ready. Like I said before my sources tell me Taylor is WAY ahead of Brion. Does Taylor have room to improve? Yes! I'm willing to see what happens next year with his development before I throw him under the bus.

 

This is the alarming point to me. IIRC, this is year 3 for Carnes and year 4 for Martinez. If the gap is that wide, it is one of two things. Carnes does not have the mental capacity to grasp the system OR we do not have the ability to get players better than when they arrive.

 

If it is the first, it goes with the comments of those who believe this staff has issues with recruiting ie missing talent/not good judges etc..... Not good.

If it is number 2, it goes right into the theme from some (myself included) that the staff has issues developing talent.

 

Neither one is good. It goes back to what seems to be this teams (staffs) mentality of playing not to lose instead of playing to win. They lack that killer attitude IMO. Same with the way they play Martinez this year. Safe plays, limit his exposure as it appears they have no faith in the back-ups. Again goes to lack of development or recruiting misses. IIRC, Bo or Beck mentioned during the season that if Martinez went down, Rex would be their guy.

 

I'm about to rant here, you've all been warned...

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying (especially the part about talent development), but the part about safe plays and limiting his exposure bothers me, and it's not just directed at you.

 

The Martinez haters now complains that we "limit" Martinez too much, and play not to lose, but isn't that what said complainers wanted? Before, Taylor was feast or famine, big play or turnover, and a lot of people justifiably criticized him for it. Now, Taylor has become a game manager, and people want the big play ability back. It just doesn't work like that. We want the big plays minus the mistakes, and unless your quarterback's name is Andrew Luck, that's not just going to happen as a redshirt sophomore.

 

Now, if there is a better option out there, i'm all for it. There are deficiencies in Martinez's game, and if we have somebody more capable on the roster, he needs to play. I highly doubt this is true, because there is no reason for the staff to keep him on the bench if a better option exists. That being said, teams have won National Championship's with a lot less at quarterback, so if they can do it, so can we. Honestly, I'm more concerned with the defense as a whole that any single unit on the offense, and if I had to pick the offense's weakest position, it's far and away the offensive line, in my opinion. The quarterback is far from the most glaring issue.

 

Something else that bothers me are the people saying that he is not a "dual threat" quarterback. He may not be busting off 15 yard scrambles, but to say his feet are not a threat is ridiculous. He may not show his speed on every play, but defenses take his speed into account when they gameplan, and they take it into account with their playcalling. Martinez's running ability may open up some lanes for Rex, or loosen up the coverage downfield because he is a threat to run. There's no way to know what the specific effect is unless you're in the opponents defensive gamplanning session, but it definitely has an effect, and that counts for something. Just because he's not juking people in the pocket every play doesn't mean that his running doesn't have a positive effect on the offense.

 

I know that the quarterback is the easiest position to criticize, but I see much bigger problems, that need addressed more readily than the quarterback. And honestly, this is purely opinion, I think that the inverted veer option out of the gun suits him much better than the option that we're running now. It seems to me that he makes better read from the shotgun, and doesn't have to juke and jive as much as he does out of the I, he can get straight down the field fast, which we all know is his strength.

 

This is just what I see when I watch the games and read the boards, so take it for what it's worth. I didn't mean to criticize anyone, just to point out some stuff that I believe is frustrating or false. Take it for what it's worth.