Homosexuality - Choice? or Genetic?

[HuskerShark]

I think there is more than one way to define self-fulfilling prophecy; I think. If that's the case than I could just be using a different version of the word. But the way you defined it knapp isn't how shark was using it.

 

The reason I am so familiar with self-fulfilling prophecy is because I study about it a lot in my education classes. For instance, a study was done (don't ask me for a link, I don't have it) on a class of young kids where the teacher came in the first day, split the students in half, told one half that they were really smart and that they would do well in the class, and told the other half that they were not smart and would not do as well in the class. Due to the students believing what the teacher told them, the favorable half ended up getting much higher scores than the half that was told that they were stupid.

 

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Lil' Red]

I don't know. I don't think it works the way you say.

 

A couple of disconfirming points: What happens when you have a boy, who does girl-related activities, but isn't called "gay" by his peers? According to self-fulfilling prophecy, he turns out heterosexual. I don't think so.

 

Also, how do you explain the girl who likes doing boy-related activities? A lot of times, and unfortunately, when someone uses the word gay, males are thought of almost every time and females aren't even considered. So if indeed, it was a self-fulfilling prophecy, then how can you explain an opposite scenario: a girl liking guy activities?

 

Rarely is something entirely genetic or entirely environmental.

 

I'm not sure that self-fulfilling prophecy applies to the other situations. There are plenty of girls who like activities that would normally be associated as manly, such as football. In fact, that to me is a huge turn-on to me is for a girl to like football.

 

What happens when you have a boy, who does girl-related activities, but isn't called "gay" by his peers? According to self-fulfilling prophecy, he turns out heterosexual. I don't think so.

That's not how self-fulfilling prophecy works. Just because he is not called gay his whole life doesn't mean that he will turn out straight. There are just so many factors that influence something like the choice to be homosexual. I can maybe see how an elevated estrogen level could have a small affect on a person being gay, but I absolutely believe it is a psychological issue.

 

Here's why: Every homosexual person that I have ever known throughout my entire life has had some sort of parent issue. Some are neglected, some are abused, some have divorced parents so they have a mental block toward heterosexual relations, and some simply don't get along with their parents, so my view on them is that they turn gay to teach their parents a lesson. It's really as simple as that.

 

One kid from my class who actually turned gay in college had divorced parents, but I don't feel like his parent situation was that messed up. He was kind of feminine, and the self-fulfilling prophecy example that I talked about is exactly what happened to him. He actually had a lot of girlfriends in high school and had sexual relationships with a few of them, so I always used that as an example to others why he wasn't gay. Basically, all he heard all through Jr High and High School because he was feminine was that he was gay, and I absolutely think that is why he decided to be gay.

 

I think that there is definitely a major genetic aspect with homosexuality and your self fulfilling prophecy may be a potential factor in some cases but it is only one of many.

[JJ Husker]

Shark, the term self-fulfilling prophecy means turning out the way other's perceive you.

 

A self-fulfilling prophecy is a prediction whose existence affects the prediction's outcome. It doesn't have much to do with how you are perceived by other people. It's like believing in monsters so strongly that, when you turn out the lights in the basement, you double-time it up the stairs so you don't get eaten. That fear of non-existent monsters is the prediction, and your belief that you'll be eaten is a direct result of that fear, whether it has merit or not.

 

Great! Now I have to fear going to the dark basement alone. Way to go knapp....

[Ratt Mhule]

Here's why: Every homosexual person that I have ever known throughout my entire life has had some sort of parent issue. Some are neglected, some are abused, some have divorced parents so they have a mental block toward heterosexual relations, and some simply don't get along with their parents, so my view on them is that they turn gay to teach their parents a lesson. It's really as simple as that.

 

No, its not that simple.

 

I had a very good friend who was gay. I asked him this same question. He told me he knew from a young age he was attracted to men and nobody gave him a hard time about it. He dated girls, had relations with them and the whole time he knew he was gay.

[husker_99]

Yes but is it considered homosexuality if there is no penetrative sex? Yes they might have done it in private but not known pubically. They might have kissed and stroked each other off but if that's all they did does that constitute being homosexual? Likewise with a straight male that is still a virigin but pleases a woman with his fingers and kisses is that enough to be considered straight?

I think homosexuality just means an attraction to the same sex. You don't need to act on that attraction to be gay.

 

So would it be gay if you thought another man was handsome and never acted on it?

If you were sexually attracted to him, yes. You are gay. (Or bisexual.)

 

No offense . . . but how is that even a question?

 

So admitting a guy is handsome means your gay? yeah i don't think so.

[AR Husker Fan]

Given the stigma - even in this day and age (see Coach Brown's comments as one example, and damn near any Republican's for other examples), I have a hard time believing it's a choice. In addition to the stigma that still is attached to it, there is also a small, but deadly, group of people that are so bigoted that they physically attack gays. And people choose to be gay? Highly unlikely. In most cases with which I'm familiar, the situation was exactly as Po's friend described it - from an early age the person found he or she was attracted to the same gender, even if they couldn't understand exactly what the implications of that attraction were.

[husker_99]

Yes but is it considered homosexuality if there is no penetrative sex? Yes they might have done it in private but not known pubically. They might have kissed and stroked each other off but if that's all they did does that constitute being homosexual? Likewise with a straight male that is still a virigin but pleases a woman with his fingers and kisses is that enough to be considered straight?

I think homosexuality just means an attraction to the same sex. You don't need to act on that attraction to be gay.

 

So would it be gay if you thought another man was handsome and never acted on it?

 

HAHA! If you were physically attracted to the guy? Yes. If you just acknowledge the fact that a guy is handsome? No.

 

You can find guy attractive but not gay and doesn't necessarily you want to have sex with them. So what about lady gaga who claims to have both genatalia? if you are a woman are you now a lesbian because you are attracted to a hermaphrodite?

[husker_99]

In ancient Greek culture, homosexuality would have been a foreign term. Males took part in homosexual activity as a means of sexual pleasure, although, there was still a stigma between 'giving' and 'taking', if you catch my drift. Females would have taken part in homosexual behavior, too.

 

In fact, in Spartan culture, it was considered a good thing for an older man to take a younger boy as his sexual partner. Spartan men were also divided into dining halls, of about 20-30 men each, and there was a lot of homosexual behavior in these groups. Furthermore, part of ancient Greek lore described many brave warriors who excelled on the battlefield because their male lover had been with him. There are many stories of famous warriors taking their lovers on war campaigns.

 

The reason I'm saying all this is because I don't think there's a definitive answer. Back then, homosexuality was normal. The concept of being a homosexual wouldn't have made any sense to them. I think some people may be born with a disposition towards homosexuality, but I also think that it can be an open choice for any individual, depending on their background and how they feel about it.

 

Except Homosexuality was different back then too. From Wikipedia: Penetrative sex, however, was seen as demeaning for the passive partner, and outside the socially accepted norm.^[6]

 

It's different today where homosexuality is defined sexually exclusive. In ancient Greece it was more of a mentor thing.

 

Here's my link: http://en.wikipedia...._ancient_Greece

Right, which is why I mentioned there was a stigma between 'taking' and 'receiving'.

 

But, I still don't think it changes the concept much. Homosexuality was commonplace. The word wouldn't have even made sense to them.

 

Yes but is it considered homosexuality if there is no penetrative sex? Yes they might have done it in private but not known pubically. They might have kissed and stroked each other off but if that's all they did does that constitute being homosexual? Likewise with a straight male that is still a virigin but pleases a woman with his fingers and kisses is that enough to be considered straight?

You're comparing two different things here - homosexuality itself is not an act, it's an emotion. Sex is an act. Although people correlate homosexual sex and the term homosexuality together, that's not accurate, at least not in my opinion. That's like assuming a heterosexual male who hasn't had sex yet is a homosexual or bisexual, even though you really have no idea.

 

But Homosexuality is also more than just an emotion. It can be a lifestyle(clothes,how you take care of yourself), how you talk, etc. Sex is also emotion not just an act.

[bennychico11]

People don't love someone because of their gender. They love someone because of who they are.

I didn't choose to be straight any more than someone who is gay chose to be gay. It is not something people "turn into" or something they do to "get back at their parents."

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Here's why: Every homosexual person that I have ever known throughout my entire life has had some sort of parent issue. Some are neglected, some are abused, some have divorced parents so they have a mental block toward heterosexual relations, and some simply don't get along with their parents, so my view on them is that they turn gay to teach their parents a lesson. It's really as simple as that.

 

No, its not that simple.

 

I had a very good friend who was gay. I asked him this same question. He told me he knew from a young age he was attracted to men and nobody gave him a hard time about it. He dated girls, had relations with them and the whole time he knew he was gay.

 

Agreed. It is not that simple. A complex behavior is never that simple. And it is not just the way it is.

[HuskerShark]

People don't love someone because of their gender. They love someone because of who they are.

I didn't choose to be straight any more than someone who is gay chose to be gay. It is not something people "turn into" or something they do to "get back at their parents."

I have a few close guy friends that I love to hang out with. I love who they are. The fact of the matter is, I am attracted to female parts, making me heterosexual.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

People don't love someone because of their gender. They love someone because of who they are.

I didn't choose to be straight any more than someone who is gay chose to be gay. It is not something people "turn into" or something they do to "get back at their parents."

I have a few close guy friends that I love to hang out with. I love who they are. The fact of the matter is, I am attracted to female parts, making me heterosexual.

 

And your point is?

[huskerswrkhavoc]

AR, Benny, and anyone else that think it's straight up genetic, I have a question for you.

 

If being gay is completely genetic and isn't a 'choice' that is developed from an individual's environment, will we see the number of gays decrease as time goes on? Think about it. If it is becoming more acceptable to be gay, which it definitely is, wouldn't we begin to see this 'gay-gene' start to disappear among humans? If it is a gene that is passed on from parents, the eventual acceptance and legalization of gay marriage will 'allow' more people to 'come out' at a younger age and not be having heterosexual sexual relations and be passing the 'gay-gene' on to the next generation.

 

I really don't think that it's completely genetic, more a disposition, but I really don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.

[AR Husker Fan]

Genetic disposition, while obviously inherited, is not linear. That is, genes combine in ways that produce traits that are unique to the individual. If not, we'd all have brown eyes. Blue eyes came about a relatively short time ago in human development. It resulted from a genetic mix - not a linear inheritance. That's just a single example - there are more. Put another way, gays don't beget gay children. A lesbian impregnated (by whatever means) by a gay man does not always (or even commonly) result in a gay child. If that were true, we'd never have had gays in the first place - unless one excepts the premise that there was an "original" gay man and lesbian woman, and despite their attraction to their own gender, managed to meet and mate. So, no - I don't think we'll see less gays. If anything, we'll see more if society becomes more tolerant and accepting. Those that are in the closet will come out; those that would have hidden their sexual preference will not feel that need.

[huskerswrkhavoc]

Disposition. A disposition towards something does not make it absolute. It leaves room for some sort of environmental influence on the individual. When it's said that homosexuality isn't a choice it isn't being said that it's a disposition. Instead, it seems like it's being said that you are either gay or not, which a disposition doesn't leave room for.