JJ Husker Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 This not "key" for anything. That's like saying if the rape victim hadn't gone to the bar, she wouldn't have got raped. Since she initiated the action of going somewhere, she was the "cause"? C'mon, you're better than that. Do you mean to imply that if I pay attention to strangers in my neighborhood, and if I ever go out on the street and inquire what that person might be doing in my neighborhood, that I am to blame for any and all actions that follow? No, it's not like saying that. It's like saying if a rapist doesn't set his eyes on a girl and follow her out of the bar, she wouldn't have gotten raped. And here we touch on the problem I believe some of you are having. You are presupposing guilt. Of course a rapist is responsible for rape. Just like a murderer (GZ) is responsible for murder. Right? I notice you didn't answer my question in bold above. Why does this case have to be about anything more sinister than the simple question I asked? In fact, this very scenario has happened to me in my neighborhood, twice that I can recall. Event #1; I saw a young black kid (actually probably about 17 yrs old) leaning up against the light pole across the street from driveway. He appeared clean cut and not particularly threatening. Watched from my window for awhile and he didn't move. I walked up to him and asked him if he needed anything. He was just out selling magazines and was taking a break. But, I did approach him and basically asked what are you doing here. Event #2; I saw a white kid, prob about 16 yrs old, hanging around in much the same fashion except he was on a bike and was not going anywhere. He looked a little menacing (don't know how to describe it other than he looked out of place for my neighborhood) and kept circling in front of mine and a few adjacent houses. I went out, down to the end of my driveway, and asked him if he needed help finding something. He replied "nah dude" and rode off and didn't come back. There is more to this story that I discovered later (he was up to no good) but it doesn't apply to the point I am trying to make. My point is, if either one of these young fellas had reacted aggressively to my questioning (because, after all it is a free country and they are sure entitled to loiter on my street if they wish), possibly tried to get physical with me, and I end up killing one of them fighting back, why is it "my fault" for initiating contact? The answer is, it isn't. BTW, I live on a quiet cul de sac of about 14 houses. One family is Hispanic, the other 13 are white. However, we have more than a handful of Hispanics and one black family that I know of within a few block radius. Personally, I am a lot more tempted to be on the lookout for white kids that are up to no good but, the key is mid to late teenage kids and not their color. It seems too many people want to believe that GZ must have done something wrong simply because TM ended up dead. Some act like the mere fact that he was carrying a gun means he must be guilty of something. I don't get it. I understand he "may have" pushed the issue too hard and caused this but I'm sure not going to act like that is any kind of fact. He followed a kid. So what? Something else occurred that escalated this situation. It could have been either one or both of them that caused it to escalate to someone being dead. The things that annoy me; 1- The constant harping that TM just went out to pick up skittles and was returning home. GZ doesn't know that at the time. What if GZ follows him and initiates the discussion and TM simply says "look dude, I live right over there and just went to the store. Get off my ass, quit harassing me you crazy ass cracker." I'm guessing nothing else happens. 2- The cry that GZ did something wrong for following him. I would hope that people who witness something they feel is out of the ordinary in their neighborhood follow up on it. 3- The sentiment that just because a person is dead means the person who caused their death must somehow be at fault. "if he hadn't followed him", "if he wasn't carrying a gun", "if he wasn't a wannabe cop", if if if if if. 1 Link to comment
Junior Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-lost-job-party-security-guard-aggressive-ex-co-worker-article-1.1053223?tag=contentMain;contentBody George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for “being too aggressive,” a former co-worker told the Daily News. Zimmerman, at the center of a firestorm for shooting an unarmed black teenager a month ago, worked for two different agencies providing security to illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, the former co-worker said. “Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us,” he said. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.” Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 And here we touch on the problem I believe some of you are having. You are presupposing guilt. And you are presupposing innocence. Knowing Zimmerman's background, his already-established pattern of doing just this kind of thing, it's no longer as simple as "presupposing innocence." It becomes a character trait, and it's not a good one in light of the fact that Martin is dead. Link to comment
Apathy Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 bunch of mad people up in here lol Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 bunch of mad people up in here lol After what you posted last night, you have no room to point fingers. Link to comment
Apathy Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 bunch of mad people up in here lol After what you posted last night, you have no room to point fingers. Um who said I'm mad? I'm happy with the verdict Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 bunch of mad people up in here lol After what you posted last night, you have no room to point fingers. Um who said I'm mad? I'm happy with the verdict I did. 1 Link to comment
Junior Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 bunch of mad people up in here lol After what you posted last night, you have no room to point fingers. Um who said I'm mad? I'm happy with the verdict Interesting. May I ask why? Link to comment
scarletNcream Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I'm having a hard time with one side saying its NOT OK to bring in Trayvon's past, but its OK to bring up Zimmerman's. Why? Link to comment
Landlord Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Keep thinking I posted this but I did not. One other thing I'll add: This is a race issue. Claim it isn't, but if you do you're flat out wrong. The reason it is, if for no other, is that the only thing that prompted authorities to investigate this killing seriously was the national outcry. Without the public backlash (centered around race), George Zimmerman never even gets arrested. Link to comment
EZ-E Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Keep thinking I posted this but I did not. One other thing I'll add: This is a race issue. Claim it isn't, but if you do you're flat out wrong. The reason it is, if for no other, is that the only thing that prompted authorities to investigate this killing seriously was the national outcry. Without the public backlash (centered around race), George Zimmerman never even gets arrested. At the end of the day it really isn't what you feel, it's what you can prove. There are more than just the Zimmerman case in Florida that don't ever see a trial. Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Keep thinking I posted this but I did not. One other thing I'll add: This is a race issue. Claim it isn't, but if you do you're flat out wrong. The reason it is, if for no other, is that the only thing that prompted authorities to investigate this killing seriously was the national outcry. Without the public backlash (centered around race), George Zimmerman never even gets arrested. You're right...ish. The national outcry made it a race issue so that it went to trial. The question is, was there a racial component to Zimmerman's decision to follow Martin? Was there a racial component for Martin's decision to ask Zimmerman why he was following him? We'll never know the answer to those two questions because Zimmerman would be a fool to admit it, and Martin is no longer with us. Link to comment
Apathy Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 bunch of mad people up in here lol After what you posted last night, you have no room to point fingers. Um who said I'm mad? I'm happy with the verdict I did. LOL I get that. Ok since you said that I'm mad, then what am I mad about? Link to comment
Landlord Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Keep thinking I posted this but I did not. One other thing I'll add: This is a race issue. Claim it isn't, but if you do you're flat out wrong. The reason it is, if for no other, is that the only thing that prompted authorities to investigate this killing seriously was the national outcry. Without the public backlash (centered around race), George Zimmerman never even gets arrested. You're right...ish. The national outcry made it a race issue so that it went to trial. The question is, was there a racial component to Zimmerman's decision to follow Martin? Was there a racial component for Martin's decision to ask Zimmerman why he was following him? We'll never know the answer to those two questions because Zimmerman would be a fool to admit it, and Martin is no longer with us. The answer to those questions could go either way, but I think just as important of a question is was there a racial component to the lazy, uninterested way in which the authorities approached the case initially? I don't see how there's any way the answer to that is anything other than yes. It can't be proven, of course. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 bunch of mad people up in here lol After what you posted last night, you have no room to point fingers. Um who said I'm mad? I'm happy with the verdict I did. LOL I get that. Ok since you said that I'm mad, then what am I mad about? I'm not certain. But I do know you're all up in here. Link to comment
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