The future of Unions

[husker B-rent]

this was fun.

[knapplc]

Unions are on the way out today, but they are not finished forever. Unions serve a purpose when workers' rights are ridiculously trampled, as they were in the first half of the last century. Unions were not only beneficial to the country but necessary.

 

Unfortunately, many unions grew too large and became more of a detriment than a benefit. Today we have legislation that largely protects workers, but is not a panacea for all working ills. So union membership declines, and unions lose their influence.

 

However, abuse of workers is not going to go away simply because laws are in place preventing it. We will see a time when unions are, once again, necessary. I just hope they're not outlawed by the time they're necessary again.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Unions are on the way out today, but they are not finished forever. Unions serve a purpose when workers' rights are ridiculously trampled, as they were in the first half of the last century. Unions were not only beneficial to the country but necessary.

 

Unfortunately, many unions grew too large and became more of a detriment than a benefit. Today we have legislation that largely protects workers, but is not a panacea for all working ills. So union membership declines, and unions lose their influence.

 

However, abuse of workers is not going to go away simply because laws are in place preventing it. We will see a time when unions are, once again, necessary. I just hope they're not outlawed by the time they're necessary again.

 

Things tend to be cyclical. Like the tides.

[knapplc]

Hah! I meant to use the word "cyclical" in that post, but I realize I did not. +1 for you, BBBXII

[strigori]

As unions have been declining, so has the middle/working class. Wages have stagnated for those who work that tier jobs, I know of at least one job where they made more real money, unadjusted for inflation, 25 years ago than that position pays now. due to the breaking of that union. As unions have died workers lost the pensions they thought they would have for retirement, most companies turned those into 401ks, which took a massive hit over the last several years. So people who worked their asses off for decades in cases now can not retire thanks to the culture of greed that drives business right now. People have routinely been duped into the 'unions are bad for business' line. Sure, they are bad for the CEO's and other execs who collect the profits from the business. Unions tend to force 'profit sharing' among the workers. Actually rewarding the people who did the work, and made sacrifices for a company getting rewarded? No, we can't have that. Stock holders deserve it more, CEOs deserve it more. Unless we get more organized labor to force companies to reward their workers, our economy is not going to recover as it needs to.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Hah! I meant to use the word "cyclical" in that post, but I realize I did not. +1 for you, BBBXII

 

I'm just a big ole karma whore today.

 

 

Edit: A question(s) has (have) popped into my head just now and I'm curious to know what you guys think is the thing (and more than likely things) that has caused all the economic turmoil in the United States? It certainly can't be the doing of a single political party, or a single extreme version of the two political parties.

 

Also, if you're thinking along the same lines as I am to the first question--how can politicians, who must know about the current affairs of a good majority of United States citizens, not just people living in the United States, but people who are registered citizens, sit in Washington D.C. and not do anything to come to a compromise to try and better the conditions of the citizens who voted them there to do what's right for them in the first place?

 

I want to know what happened to a government of the people, by the people, for the people?

[Ziggy]

I think private industry unions are always going to be necessities for many industries. But when someone is forced to join a union to work in a certain industry it gets out of control. Public unions are in my mind a total waste of tax payers money. How is it ok for workers to assume and expect a raise every year regardless of their ability, work results, or the company/governments ability to pay for the increase in payroll. Shouldn’t we promote teachers who actually teach kids and demote or fire teachers who fail to live up to the standards we set as a society. And then make the pay system for government workers be based on merit and not on how long they have been working or weather they have tenure or not. Make the pay scale more competitive to bring in better talent and retain good employees. I am mostly against unions because how far they have strayed from their intended need. Blaming CEO's, Governors, and Presidents for doing what is best for the company, state, or country is pretty silly. Show me figures that show the middle/working class is declining, show me where wages have stagnated even after being artificially increased by the government. Take a look at how well the UAW did when Detroit automakers needed to be bailed out. The reason Detroit needed bailed out is because the Unions forced the car companies to accept unsustainable agreements to keep cars rolling off the line. And I would love to hear this job that Strigori says has declined in overall pay in the past 25 years. Let me guess tape player repair man, walkman salesperson, Telephone service providor?

[JJ Husker]

Unions, while needed and useful in times gone by, have done nothing more than line the pockets of democrats and organized crime for about the last 40 years. Oh, and lets not forget the jobs they have saved for some of the most useless and lazy members of the workforce. They have brought automakers and airlines to their knees. Decline of our economy because of the decline of unions? Ha. They have only fostered an attitude of depending on somebody else. That's real helpful.

 

Maybe now I'll get the respect I deserve. Post number 1000 baby.

[JJ Husker]

As unions have been declining, so has the middle/working class. Wages have stagnated for those who work that tier jobs, I know of at least one job where they made more real money, unadjusted for inflation, 25 years ago than that position pays now. due to the breaking of that union. As unions have died workers lost the pensions they thought they would have for retirement, most companies turned those into 401ks, which took a massive hit over the last several years. So people who worked their asses off for decades in cases now can not retire thanks to the culture of greed that drives business right now. People have routinely been duped into the 'unions are bad for business' line. Sure, they are bad for the CEO's and other execs who collect the profits from the business. Unions tend to force 'profit sharing' among the workers. Actually rewarding the people who did the work, and made sacrifices for a company getting rewarded? No, we can't have that. Stock holders deserve it more, CEOs deserve it more. Unless we get more organized labor to force companies to reward their workers, our economy is not going to recover as it needs to.

 

This whole post is so misguided, I don't know where to begin. Not sure where your real world experience comes from but it is apparent it is not this world. Companies pay wages based on the economy and available labor pool. When they don't pay enough, they will lose their workers to competitors or other industries. If they can't pay the going wage, their product or services will suffer and they will eventually be no more. A union forcing them to pay higher wages or provide more benefits is only a short term solution for the workers. When that evil, greedy business owner closes the doors, how much good do you think that does the working class?

[HUSKER 37]

Unions on their way out?

 

Next thing you know, we might try something new fangled like that West Coast Offense all the kids are talking about.

 

 

 

Seriously, where are there still unions? (Guess I've lived and worked in the wrong states)

[carlfense]

As unions have been declining, so has the middle/working class. Wages have stagnated for those who work that tier jobs, I know of at least one job where they made more real money, unadjusted for inflation, 25 years ago than that position pays now. due to the breaking of that union. As unions have died workers lost the pensions they thought they would have for retirement, most companies turned those into 401ks, which took a massive hit over the last several years. So people who worked their asses off for decades in cases now can not retire thanks to the culture of greed that drives business right now. People have routinely been duped into the 'unions are bad for business' line. Sure, they are bad for the CEO's and other execs who collect the profits from the business. Unions tend to force 'profit sharing' among the workers. Actually rewarding the people who did the work, and made sacrifices for a company getting rewarded? No, we can't have that. Stock holders deserve it more, CEOs deserve it more. Unless we get more organized labor to force companies to reward their workers, our economy is not going to recover as it needs to.

 

This whole post is so misguided, I don't know where to begin. Not sure where your real world experience comes from but it is apparent it is not this world. Companies pay wages based on the economy and available labor pool. When they don't pay enough, they will lose their workers to competitors or other industries. If they can't pay the going wage, their product or services will suffer and they will eventually be no more. A union forcing them to pay higher wages or provide more benefits is only a short term solution for the workers. When that evil, greedy business owner closes the doors, how much good do you think that does the working class?

I don't know if you're seeing the big picture. Middle class wages are declining while the richest are grabbing an ever larger share of allocated wages.

 

The trend is to pay CEOs and upper management more while paying other workers less. Now, theoretically, a union could lobby for increased wages for the workers and the company could offset that by paying their CEO less extravagantly.

 

 

This has nothing to do with evil. It does have quite a bit to do with greed. Rising income disparity is a fact. You don't have to like it . . . but it's a fact. Also note that that rising income disparity shares a strong correlation with the decline of unions. Draw whatever conclusions that you would like from that.

[carlfense]

Show me figures that show the middle/working class is declining, show me where wages have stagnated even after being artificially increased by the government.

You serious, Clark?

[Comish]

Hah! I meant to use the word "cyclical" in that post, but I realize I did not. +1 for you, BBBXII

 

I'm just a big ole karma whore today.

 

 

Edit: A question(s) has (have) popped into my head just now and I'm curious to know what you guys think is the thing (and more than likely things) that has caused all the economic turmoil in the United States? It certainly can't be the doing of a single political party, or a single extreme version of the two political parties.

 

Also, if you're thinking along the same lines as I am to the first question--how can politicians, who must know about the current affairs of a good majority of United States citizens, not just people living in the United States, but people who are registered citizens, sit in Washington D.C. and not do anything to come to a compromise to try and better the conditions of the citizens who voted them there to do what's right for them in the first place?

 

I want to know what happened to a government of the people, by the people, for the people?

It's the intoxication of POWER.

 

When you can EXEMPT yourself from the same laws you enact for the rest of us, you really are no longer "of, by or for" the people.

 

The original intent was for all walks of life to have an opportunity to "serve" for a short period of time and then return to your vocation.

 

That has devolved into political "careers".

 

That's why I agree with Ben Franklin when he stated that he would rather be governed by the first 50 names in any metropolitan phone book than by a class of politicians.

 

That's also why I support term limits.

[Ziggy]

Show me figures that show the middle/working class is declining, show me where wages have stagnated even after being artificially increased by the government.

You serious, Clark?

 

I am serious, I like seeing facts when availible (like your graphs). Kind of like the whole I know someone famous deal, or someone who knows something important from someone in a high position. Even your graph shows an increase in wages in the last 30 years. And what is the change of "share of income" ? I dont feel like figuring it out and its your graph so I was hoping you could shed some light on it.

[carlfense]

I want to know what happened to a government of the people, by the people, for the people?

Thanks in large part to Citizens United it has become a government of the money, by the money, and for the money.