carlfense Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 You do know that that poll was 1k people Is that an adequate sample size?? And it oversampled Democrats! If we change the numbers we get a totally different result. Let's unskew it! 3 Link to comment
Someone Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I like the poll from FOX News that says 90% support background checks. It is pre-unskewed by Mr. Murdoch himself. Link to comment
Saunders Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Did the killers at Columbine choose their location because it was a gun free zone? We don't know. They're dead. Was there an armed security guard on site at the time of the Columbine shooting? Yes. When a killer shoots up a place, is he or she taking sick revenge based on some perceived wrong or based on a lack of firearms and longer estimated 911 response times? Both. Are we to assume that the Sikh Temple in WI was choosen by the killer because it was the nearest gun free zone to the shooter? You think he does it if there are armed guards? Wouldn't it be stupid to suggest that a person planning to kill someone else and themselves would pick a safe place where they would not be shot? It would be stupid to suggest that these criminals don't try to prey on the weak. The Aurora guy gave up when the cops arrived. Are gun free zones patroled by law enforcement and armed security professional? How many were onsite at Aurora, Newtown, etc... How silly would it be to assume that these professionals always disarm before going into a business, church, theater or school? The vast majority do because it's a felony if you don't have express permission. Where is the evidence that citizens packing heat, ie Joe Rambo, makes us safer? None of your "joe rambo" examples work, because none of them cite a person trying to stop a mass shooting, so your point is a red herring. Also, numbers for DGU's vary between 50k per year and higher. Link to comment
Junior Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2013/05/missouri_gun_bills_jay_nixon.php That is, these bills make it easier for residents to get gun permits in the state and eliminate a major record-keeping component of the current process. The GOP is now celebrating these successful legislative feats, passed in the name of protecting the privacy of gun owners. As we've reported, critics say this pro-privacy agenda could actually make Missouri more vulnerable to fraud, terrorism and other criminal activity.If the governor were to sign these bills, how would gun laws change in the state? For starters, Senate Bill 75 would reform the concealed-carry process so that local sheriffs would solely handle the permit approvals, and the state license bureau would not be involved. Link to comment
Someone Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 <p>Sorry for the late reply...didn't see this before:</p> <p> </p> <p>Black comments by someone. Red added by saunders45. Blued added by me/</p> <div class="blockquote"> <div class="quote"> <ol class="bbcol decimal"> <li>Did the killers at Columbine choose their location because it was a gun free zone? <span style="color: #ff0000">We don't know. They're dead.</span> <span style="color:#0000ff;">Yes we do. They provided very clear details in the information they left behind. You are wrong.</span></li> <li>Was there an armed security guard on site at the time of the Columbine shooting? <span style="color: #FF0000">Yes. </span><span style="color:#0000ff;">So the whole mass shooting happen in gun free zones is a myth. </span></li> <li>When a killer shoots up a place, is he or she taking sick revenge based on some perceived wrong or based on a lack of firearms and longer estimated 911 response times? <span style="color: #FF0000">Both.</span> <span style="color:#0000ff;">Wrong again. We have much data as to how and why killer pick their locations both from killers who lived and from the writing and words of killer who died and never once has 911 respnse times, gun free zone or lack of firearms ever been found to be a factor.</span> <span style="color:#0000ff;">Not even once.</span></li> <li>Are we to assume that the Sikh Temple in WI was choosen by the killer because it was the nearest gun free zone to the shooter? <span style="color: #FF0000">You think he does it if there are armed guards?</span> <span style="color:#0000ff;">Yes. He had no reason to assume that their would not be armed security. In fact I think I read that the Temple wasn't a Gun Free Zone. <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); display: inline ! important; float: none;">Are we to believe that a white supremacist targeted the Sikh temple there not because it was filled with members of a religious minority he despised, but because it was a place that didn't allow firearms?</span>. </span></li> <li>Wouldn't it be stupid to suggest that a person planning to kill someone else and themselves would pick a safe place where they would not be shot? <span style="color: #FF0000">It would be stupid to suggest that these criminals don't try to prey on the weak. The Aurora guy gave up when the cops arrived.</span><span style="color:#0000ff;">But many others shot themselves or bull rush the cops (suicide by proxy). </span></li> <li>Are gun free zones patroled by law enforcement and armed security professional? <span style="color: #FF0000">How many were onsite at Aurora, Newtown, etc... </span><span style="color:#0000ff;">I don't know. I wasn't there. Can you use Google? The answer your are refusing to provide is: Yes. These gun free zones are often patrolled by armed law enforcement and security professionals. </span></li> <li>How silly would it be to assume that these professionals always disarm before going into a business, church, theater or school? <span style="color: #FF0000">The vast majority do because it's a felony if you don't have express permission.</span><span style="color:#0000ff;"> Actually, you are wrong again. Cops doen't have to remove their weapons when the enter a school or mall or church or other gun free zone. </span></li> <li>Where is the evidence that citizens packing heat, ie Joe Rambo, makes us safer? <span style="color: #FF0000">None of your "joe rambo" examples work, because none of them cite a person trying to stop a mass shooting, so your point is a red herring. Also, numbers for DGU's vary between 50k per year and higher.</span><span style="color:#0000ff;">You are avoiding the question again. We have 100 million guns. We have 49 states that allow people to carry their weapon(s) in public. Where is the evidence that citizens packing heat, ie Joe Rambo, makes us safer?</span> <span style="color:#0000ff;">Surely when we look at the agregate data, we can find that CWP = adn increase in public safetly. Where is the evidence? </span></li> </ol> <p> </p> </div> </div> Link to comment
walksalone Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Someone needs some "formatting" help... Link to comment
Someone Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Not sure why that is. can we get some help knap? Link to comment
knapplc Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 It's a board software issue. It sometimes happens when you go back and forth between plain text and formatted text options. Once it's posted there's nothing you can do to fix it, other than retype the whole thing. Link to comment
The Dude Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 So basically, Someone was copy-and-pasting his arguments from somewhere else, and broke the internet. Link to comment
Someone Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 So basically, Someone was copy-and-pasting his arguments from somewhere else, and broke the internet. Exactly, except instead of 'somewhere else' it was just two posts above in #1609. Link to comment
Someone Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Did the killers at Columbine choose their location because it was a gun free zone? We don't know. They're dead. Was there an armed security guard on site at the time of the Columbine shooting? Yes. When a killer shoots up a place, is he or she taking sick revenge based on some perceived wrong or based on a lack of firearms and longer estimated 911 response times? Both. Are we to assume that the Sikh Temple in WI was choosen by the killer because it was the nearest gun free zone to the shooter? You think he does it if there are armed guards? Wouldn't it be stupid to suggest that a person planning to kill someone else and themselves would pick a safe place where they would not be shot? It would be stupid to suggest that these criminals don't try to prey on the weak. The Aurora guy gave up when the cops arrived. Are gun free zones patroled by law enforcement and armed security professional? How many were onsite at Aurora, Newtown, etc... How silly would it be to assume that these professionals always disarm before going into a business, church, theater or school? The vast majority do because it's a felony if you don't have express permission. Where is the evidence that citizens packing heat, ie Joe Rambo, makes us safer? None of your "joe rambo" examples work, because none of them cite a person trying to stop a mass shooting, so your point is a red herring. Also, numbers for DGU's vary between 50k per year and higher. Yes we do. They provided very clear details in the information they left behind. You are wrong. So the whole mass shooting happen in gun free zones is a myth. Wrong again. We have much data as to how and why killer pick their locations both from killers who lived and from the writing and words of killer who died and never once has 911 respnse times, gun free zone or lack of firearms ever been found to be a factor. Yes. He had no reason to assume that their would not be armed security. In fact I think I read that the Temple wasn't a Gun Free Zone. Are we to believe that a white supremacist targeted the Sikh temple there not because it was filled with members of a religious minority he despised, but because it was a place that didn't allow firearms? But many (most) others shot themselves or bull rush the cops (suicide by proxy). I don't know. I wasn't there. Can you use Google? The answer your are refusing to provide is: Yes. These gun free zones are often patrolled by armed law enforcement and security professionals. Actually, you are wrong again. Cops doen't have to remove their weapons when the enter a school or mall or church or other gun free zone. You are avoiding the question again. We have 100 million guns. We have 49 states that allow people to carry their weapon(s) in public. Where is the evidence that citizens packing heat, ie Joe Rambo, makes us safer? Surely when we look at the agregate data, we can find that CWP = an increase in public safetly. Where is the evidence? Link to comment
rawhide Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 A few rambos: 1. Mark Alan Wilson, who grabbed his 1911 and sacrificed his life to deter/stop a court house shooting 2. Vic Stacy who made a 165 yard shot with a wheel gun to save a cop from an ambush 3. Brendan McKown the Tacoma man who is now paralyzed because he confronted the Tacoma mall shooter with his pistol and stopped his rampage 4. Nick Melli who stopped the Clackamas mall shooting by confronting the man with his Glock 22. These are off the top of my head which has less hair than previously recorded. There are many more stories of people in their homes defending themselves but most aren't "National News" worthy. Link to comment
knapplc Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I'm pretty sure this has been posted in the past 30 pages, but it bears repeating. This conversation is off on so many tangents, and I think many of these tangents are going to become irrelevant with the advent of new technology (not least among them 3D printers), but regardless, we're actually fixing the gun violence problem on a broad scale: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware National rates of gun homicide and other violent gun crimes are strikingly lower now than during their peak in the mid-1990s, paralleling a general decline in violent crime, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of government data. Beneath the long-term trend, though, are big differences by decade: Violence plunged through the 1990s, but has declined less dramatically since 2000. Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades. Guns can be a problem, and we should look into them. But they're less of a problem today than they were 20 years ago, and we should spend equal amounts of time figuring out why these rates are dropping and do that more. Link to comment
Saunders Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Yes we do. They provided very clear details in the information they left behind. You are wrong. Show me where they stated it wasn't a factor. So the whole mass shooting happen in gun free zones is a myth. Yes clearly. See the list below. Wrong again. We have much data as to how and why killer pick their locations both from killers who lived and from the writing and words of killer who died and never once has 911 respnse times, gun free zone or lack of firearms ever been found to be a factor. Show me where they specifically stated it wasn't a factor. The Aurora theater was the only one with a gun free zone sign posted in that area. It was farther from the shooters house than 5 other theaters. But clearly, it was just random chance.d Yes. He had no reason to assume that their would not be armed security. In fact I think I read that the Temple wasn't a Gun Free Zone. Are we to believe that a white supremacist targeted the Sikh temple there not because it was filled with members of a religious minority he despised, but because it was a place that didn't allow firearms? You'd be wrong again. Carry at house of worship is prohibited in most states unless employed or given specific permission. But many (most) others shot themselves or bull rush the cops (suicide by proxy). If you're trying to kill a bunch of people, would you rather have 30 seconds or 5 minutes? Gee...... I don't know. I wasn't there. Can you use Google? The answer your are refusing to provide is: Yes. These gun free zones are often patrolled by armed law enforcement and security professionals. Citation needed. See the list below. Most "security professionals" have a walkie talkie to call the cops, because it's a hell of a lot more expensive to hire an armed guard. Also, if they're "often patrolled by armed law enforcement" then why is the list below so large? Actually, you are wrong again. Cops doen't have to remove their weapons when the enter a school or mall or church or other gun free zone. False. If they're on duty they don't have to. You are avoiding the question again. We have 100 million guns. We have 49 states that allow people to carry their weapon(s) in public. Where is the evidence that citizens packing heat, ie Joe Rambo, makes us safer? Surely when we look at the agregate data, we can find that CWP = an increase in public safetly. Where is the evidence? So, deflect and change the point again. Awesome. No wonder you left HM. First, I already answered your question. Second, lmgtfy. United States Postal Service shooting: Edmond, Oklahoma Aug. 20, 1986 ,SOFT TARGET 18 USC 930 and 39 CFR 232.1. Shopping centers spree killings: Palm Bay, Florida Apr. 23, 1987 Stockton schoolyard shooting: Stockton, California Jan. 17, 1989 Royal Oak postal shootings: Royal Oak, Michigan Nov. 14, 1991 Lindhurst High School shooting: Olivehurst, California May 1, 1992 Long Island Rail Road massacre: Garden City, New York Dec. 7, 1993 Air Force base shooting: Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington June 20, 1994 Walter Rossler Company massacre: Corpus Christi, Texas Apr. 3, 1995 Thurston High School shooting: Springfield, Oregon May 21, 1998 Westside Middle School killings: Jonesboro, Arkansas Mar. 24, 1998 Columbine High School massacre: Littleton, Colorado Apr. 20, 1999 Atlanta day trading spree killings: Atlanta, Georgia July 29, 1999 Wedgwood Baptist Church shooting: Fort Worth, Texas Sep. 15, 1999 Xerox killings: Honolulu, Hawaii Nov. 2, 1999 Lockheed Martin shooting: Meridian, Mississippi July 8, 2003 Damageplan show shooting: Columbus, Ohio Dec. 8, 2004 Living Church of God shooting: Brookfield, Wisconsin Mar. 12, 2005 Red Lake massacre: Red Lake, Minnesota Mar. 21, 2005 Goleta postal shootings: Goleta, California Capitol Hill massacre: Capitol Hill, Washington Mar. 25, 2006 Amish school shooting: Lancaster County, Pennsylvania Oct. 2, 2006 Virginia Tech massacre: Blacksburg, Virginia Apr. 16, 2007 Westroads Mall shooting: Omaha, Nebraska Dec. 5, 2007 Kirkwood City Council shooting: Kirkwood, Missouri Feb. 7, 2008 Northern Illinois University shooting: DeKalb, Illinois Feb. 14, 2008 Carthage nursing home shooting: Carthage, North Carolina Mar. 29, 2009 Fort Hood massacre: Fort Hood, Texas Nov. 5, 2009 Coffee shop police killings: Parkland, Washington Nov. 29, 2009 Hartford Beer Distributor shooting: Manchester, Connecticut Aug. 3, 2010 Tucson shooting: Tucson, Arizona Jan. 8, 2011 Oikos University killings: Oakland, California Apr. 2, 2012 Aurora theater shooting: Aurora, Colorado July 20, 2012 Sikh temple shooting: Oak Creek, Wisconsin Aug. 5, 2012 Connecticut elementary school shooting Dec. 14, 2012 Link to comment
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