Catholic Hospital says Fetus is not a person

[Landlord]

This breaks my heart to read.

 

 

And reinforces my negative disposition towards the Catholic church quite a bit.

[C N Red]

Catholics contradict themselves a lot.... (Let the wrath of Catholic Huskerboarders' begin)....

 

 

How so????

this one always makes me laugh. i mean, your savior died for you, but you can not even sacrifice corned beef (gross).

 

 

As Luck Would Have It, Bishops Allow Meat on St. Patrick's Day

 

 

Despite the Vatican's prohibition against eating meat on Fridays during Lent, Catholic bishops in about one-third of the country's 197 dioceses have issued a one-day waiver of the rule, citing the benefits of Irish American tradition and community.

 

so the rules of lent are controlled by the whims of bishops?

 

i know it is a little petty, but you asked. also, i think this decision comes down to money, as well.

I'd say very petty. Really, using a reprieve of eating meat on a Lenten friday as hypocrisy????? You better be able to do better than that. Btw I'm catholic, but catholics don't contradict themselves any more than any other religions, or really for that matter, human with their own beliefs. Everyone living is a hypocrite, it's just the way we are.

[C N Red]

This breaks my heart to read.

 

 

And reinforces my negative disposition towards the Catholic church quite a bit.

So you must be in the side that believes the Dominic Walker side of the story. Might want to look into news organizations and who does what reports and how they spin them and what they stand for and where their backing comes from. You'd be amazed by how much of things reported are one sided purposefully b/c of backgrounds of news agencies.

 

So, don't believe everything you read. News is kind of like stats. They can be spun in whatever direction needed in order to make "them" look right.

[sd'sker]

Catholics contradict themselves a lot.... (Let the wrath of Catholic Huskerboarders' begin)....

 

 

How so????

this one always makes me laugh. i mean, your savior died for you, but you can not even sacrifice corned beef (gross).

 

 

As Luck Would Have It, Bishops Allow Meat on St. Patrick's Day

 

 

Despite the Vatican's prohibition against eating meat on Fridays during Lent, Catholic bishops in about one-third of the country's 197 dioceses have issued a one-day waiver of the rule, citing the benefits of Irish American tradition and community.

 

so the rules of lent are controlled by the whims of bishops?

 

i know it is a little petty, but you asked. also, i think this decision comes down to money, as well.

I'd say very petty. Really, using a reprieve of eating meat on a Lenten friday as hypocrisy????? You better be able to do better than that. Btw I'm catholic, but catholics don't contradict themselves any more than any other religions, or really for that matter, human with their own beliefs. Everyone living is a hypocrite, it's just the way we are.

i do not have to do better. it is hypocrisy. the rules only apply unless they are inconvenient?

 

also, do you really want me to find better examples of hypocrisies? because, i can. but, no, that is a really impressive moral standard you hold for your church. as long as your church is not any worse than other churches and individuals, that is just good enough. bravo.

[Landlord]

This breaks my heart to read.

 

 

And reinforces my negative disposition towards the Catholic church quite a bit.

So you must be in the side that believes the Dominic Walker side of the story. Might want to look into news organizations and who does what reports and how they spin them and what they stand for and where their backing comes from. You'd be amazed by how much of things reported are one sided purposefully b/c of backgrounds of news agencies.

 

So, don't believe everything you read. News is kind of like stats. They can be spun in whatever direction needed in order to make "them" look right.

 

 

 

If the purported facts are not actually true - that this woman was 7 months pregnant, and a Catholic hospital's defense in a lawsuit is that the two fetuses inside here were not children - then I'll happily rescind my opinion.

[NUance]

U.S. Catholic bishops review lawsuit saying fetuses not people

By Keith Coffman DENVER | Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:03am EST

 

(Reuters) - Three Colorado bishops said on Thursday they will review a Catholic Church hospital's defense of a lawsuit that argues fetuses do not have legal status - apparently contradicting the Church's teaching on life issues.

 

The case stems from a malpractice and wrongful death lawsuit filed by Jeremy Stodghill in the 2006 death of his seven-month pregnant wife Lori at a Catholic hospital in Canon City, Colorado. Her twin fetuses also died.

LINK

This from Reuters, a relatively unbiased source of news. Just so we have the facts in this thread.

[JJ Husker]

I've got mixed feelings on this one. Yes, it is hypocritical for a Catholic hospital to use that in their defense. But, it is also hypocritical of those who hold this position (fetus' are not human beings) to use it to bash the Catholic faith. People need to pick one side or the other and stick to it. You've got no leg to stand on if you hold it against someone for doing what you yourself profess is right.

 

My other thought is, how "Catholic" is this hopital really? Is it just in the name and just a business like any other or are they really advancing some Catholic agenda? I don't have the answers, I'm just askin. Virtually any other organization uses this as a defense and nobody gives two craps. But, when a hospital, with what probably amounts to a very lose Catholic affiliation, does it, then the townsfolk grab their pitchforks.

[sd'sker]

I've got mixed feelings on this one. Yes, it is hypocritical for a Catholic hospital to use that in their defense. But, it is also hypocritical of those who hold this position (fetus' are not human beings) to use it to bash the Catholic faith. People need to pick one side or the other and stick to it. You've got no leg to stand on if you hold it against someone for doing what you yourself profess is right.

it is not hypocritical to expect someone or some entity to uphold their own standards. those bashing the catholic church for this and disagree with the catholic church are not saying the catholic church's stance is correct, just that the catholic church should abide by their own standards.

 

but the bottom line is that this is more of a legal definition issue and less of a dogma issue. although, the church could have really held the high ground and moral superiority had they stuck with their own belief system.

[JJ Husker]

I've got mixed feelings on this one. Yes, it is hypocritical for a Catholic hospital to use that in their defense. But, it is also hypocritical of those who hold this position (fetus' are not human beings) to use it to bash the Catholic faith. People need to pick one side or the other and stick to it. You've got no leg to stand on if you hold it against someone for doing what you yourself profess is right.

it is not hypocritical to expect someone or some entity to uphold their own standards. those bashing the catholic church for this and disagree with the catholic church are not saying the catholic church's stance is correct, just that the catholic church should abide by their own standards.

 

but the bottom line is that this is more of a legal definition issue and less of a dogma issue. although, the church could have really had the high ground and moral superiority had they stuck with their own belief system.

Can't disagree with any of that. It just seems that some people will go out of their way to A) bash the church for being against abortion while also B) bashing the church for not being consistent enough in protecting unborn lives. In other words, damned if they do and damned if they don't. A person can play that game with virtually any issue they so chose. I'm Catholic by choice conversion, was raised Lutheran. I won't even try to defend some of what they do or some of their stated positions. ie. I think their position against the use of birth control is asinine. But, anytime human beings, with their own problems and shortcomings get involved in ANY group, less than perfect results can be expected. It just seems that the Catholic church takes more than their fair share of flak for every little indescretion. Nobody would say dick about this if it were just your local community hospital. As soon as it's "Catholic" people expect them to care 0% about protecting their pocketbook (unlike the expectation for virtually any other entity) and 100% about their beliefs. But, having said that, I am disappointed that they would use this as a defense.

[sd'sker]

I've got mixed feelings on this one. Yes, it is hypocritical for a Catholic hospital to use that in their defense. But, it is also hypocritical of those who hold this position (fetus' are not human beings) to use it to bash the Catholic faith. People need to pick one side or the other and stick to it. You've got no leg to stand on if you hold it against someone for doing what you yourself profess is right.

it is not hypocritical to expect someone or some entity to uphold their own standards. those bashing the catholic church for this and disagree with the catholic church are not saying the catholic church's stance is correct, just that the catholic church should abide by their own standards.

 

but the bottom line is that this is more of a legal definition issue and less of a dogma issue. although, the church could have really had the high ground and moral superiority had they stuck with their own belief system.

Can't disagree with any of that. It just seems that some people will go out of their way to A) bash the church for being against abortion while also B) bashing the church for not being consistent enough in protecting unborn lives. In other words, damned if they do and damned if they don't. A person can play that game with virtually any issue they so chose. I'm Catholic by choice conversion, was raised Lutheran. I won't even try to defend some of what they do or some of their stated positions. ie. I think their position against the use of birth control is asinine. But, anytime human beings, with their own problems and shortcomings get involved in ANY group, less than perfect results can be expected. It just seems that the Catholic church takes more than their fair share of flak for every little indescretion. Nobody would say dick about this if it were just your local community hospital. As soon as it's "Catholic" people expect them to care 0% about protecting their pocketbook (unlike the expectation for virtually any other entity) and 100% about their beliefs. But, having said that, I am disappointed that they would use this as a defense.

i agree with all of that, as well.

 

again, i think the legal side is separate from the human/religious side in all of this. it would not surprise me if the hospital deferred their legal defense to a completely secular insurance company and their lawyers. to me, this seems less damning than some people make it seem. the catholic church is a big target, however.

 

what bothers me is those who feel that the church is infallible or you have to defend all of their acts. like you said, the church is as liable as anyone to make mistakes or not be perfect; it is just annoying when people do not acknowledge that.

[JJ Husker]

i agree with all of that, as well.

 

again, i think the legal side is separate from the human/religious side in all of this. it would not surprise me if the hospital deferred their legal defense to a completely secular insurance company and their lawyers. to me, this seems less damning than some people make it seem. the catholic church is a big target, however.

 

what bothers me is those who feel that the church is infallible or you have to defend all of their acts. like you said, the church is as liable as anyone to make mistakes or not be perfect; it is just annoying when people do not acknowledge that.

Well aren't we just all agreeable today

[C N Red]

I've got mixed feelings on this one. Yes, it is hypocritical for a Catholic hospital to use that in their defense. But, it is also hypocritical of those who hold this position (fetus' are not human beings) to use it to bash the Catholic faith. People need to pick one side or the other and stick to it. You've got no leg to stand on if you hold it against someone for doing what you yourself profess is right.

it is not hypocritical to expect someone or some entity to uphold their own standards. those bashing the catholic church for this and disagree with the catholic church are not saying the catholic church's stance is correct, just that the catholic church should abide by their own standards.

 

but the bottom line is that this is more of a legal definition issue and less of a dogma issue. although, the church could have really had the high ground and moral superiority had they stuck with their own belief system.

Can't disagree with any of that. It just seems that some people will go out of their way to A) bash the church for being against abortion while also B) bashing the church for not being consistent enough in protecting unborn lives. In other words, damned if they do and damned if they don't. A person can play that game with virtually any issue they so chose. I'm Catholic by choice conversion, was raised Lutheran. I won't even try to defend some of what they do or some of their stated positions. ie. I think their position against the use of birth control is asinine. But, anytime human beings, with their own problems and shortcomings get involved in ANY group, less than perfect results can be expected. It just seems that the Catholic church takes more than their fair share of flak for every little indescretion. Nobody would say dick about this if it were just your local community hospital. As soon as it's "Catholic" people expect them to care 0% about protecting their pocketbook (unlike the expectation for virtually any other entity) and 100% about their beliefs. But, having said that, I am disappointed that they would use this as a defense.

^^^^^Good post JJ. This is basically what i wanted to say but guess im not good enough with words. Catholocism is about the beliefs and fundamentals of the religion. Dont judge all catholics on what some "leaders" do or say. One thing about this story is i would almost guarantee you both sides are not fully being represented fairly.

[sd'sker]

i agree with all of that, as well.

 

again, i think the legal side is separate from the human/religious side in all of this. it would not surprise me if the hospital deferred their legal defense to a completely secular insurance company and their lawyers. to me, this seems less damning than some people make it seem. the catholic church is a big target, however.

 

what bothers me is those who feel that the church is infallible or you have to defend all of their acts. like you said, the church is as liable as anyone to make mistakes or not be perfect; it is just annoying when people do not acknowledge that.

Well aren't we just all agreeable today

we have our moments.

[BigRedBuster]

I find this case very interesting. On one hand, we have a hospital that is owned by the Catholic church being criticized by something their lawyer stated in a case as being hypocritical.

 

On the other hand, when a college ran by a religious organization tries to not be hypocritical by trying to exclude contraception from their health care package, they are criticized and forced to offer it.

 

I asked the above question knowing what the reaction would be. I always find it interesting how intense the criticism is of people who choose to be spiritual in some way by people who choose not to be.

[sd'sker]

I find this case very interesting. On one hand, we have a hospital that is owned by the Catholic church being criticized by something their lawyer stated in a case as being hypocritical.

 

On the other hand, when a college ran by a religious organization tries to not be hypocritical by trying to exclude contraception from their health care package, they are criticized and forced to offer it.

 

I asked the above question knowing what the reaction would be. I always find it interesting how intense the criticism is of people who choose to be spiritual in some way by people who choose not to be.

the criticism is not about hypocrisy. it is about people's discomfort of religious groups or churches trying to mandate their beliefs on others whether through restricting employee benefits or lobbying. so when the catholic church fails to abide by their own standard, the very standard the church so ardently tries to get to be national law, it is hard not to take notice.

 

both examples of criticism get attention because it is the church trying to force their beliefs upon others, except in the latter example they are unable to abide by that standard themselves.