Strange Things Ive Noticed Lately

[HuskerNationNick]

I agree that things do seem to spiral out of control when something bad happens to the defense. They seemed to really get down when they gave up a big play.

 

So did the offense. Our offense was our biggest enemy, and looking back, more troublesome than our defense. Had we not over 100 points came off of turnovers. This is not to blame on the defense. 16 turnovers came in our territory. Its pretty hard to stop a team from scoring when they have to only go 35 yards. If we didn't turn the ball over like we did this year, we would have won games a lot more easily, and I still believe we would have upset Georgia, and tOSU would have been much closer.

[HuskerUnity]

Fact is, yeah, we knew a few of these guys were terrible. Meredith, Steinkuhler, Compton, and in my opinion Stafford should not have been starting players at a Division 1 University like Nebraska. Yet, the NFL scouts didn't highly value guys I thought were pretty good ball players like Burkhead, Martin, Reed, and Cotton. So I just have to agree to disagree with those NFL scouts. I hope those players prove them wrong.

 

Here's the problem. Every one of these guys that was eligible for the draft a week ago was a former starter at their position last year correct? Meaning, they started over somebody who is on the current roster ? Correct?

 

Which leads me to two questions in my mind. Please explain to me why some of you have such a hard time seeing that if the best talent scouts in the world don't think these guys were worth sh#t, yet this entire class is made up of former starters...........How is it that does not reflect somewhat poorly on the guys behind them? Not adding up to me? To simplify it as much as possible.....if they suck, but they were better than you, then doesn't that mean you suck more? One would have to believe that purely by logic.

 

Second problem. Let's say for instance, EZ-E is right, and somehow these guys that we know nothing about, and haven't played more than a handful of snaps at this level, are somehow going to blow the lid off their future NFL drafts. These guys are just gonna make this NFL draft class a fluke, a long forgotten memory, never to be seen again. Well then wouldn't one have to think, if these guys are so damn good, what the f#*k are they doing riding the pine behind this class of Undrafted free agents? Doesn't make sense. You can try to pretend it makes sense, but it doesn't so I refuse to listen to any arguments that state otherwise.

 

Fact is, these young players "on the come" as Bo puts it ( God I hate that saying) might be, and in my belief, probably are more talented than the group of guys that just left. But what factual basis do we stand on when we say that. Really, we just hope to hell they are better. We want to believe it because let's face it, last year we got our asses kicked pretty severely at times. If they are better, then what the f#*k are they doing on the sidelines? That is also a problem. It's got to be fixed. You can write this draft off as nothing more than a fluke, with no indication of the future what so ever. But some of you act like you can't even connect the dots and see how one would come to the conclusion that maybe we don't have a lot of talent on this roster, which.........we do.

 

 

I'll give it a try and use examples. Not every good player in college is a good fit for pro football.

 

Example 1. Ed Steward, and Troy Dumas were starting LBs on NU's 1994 National Championship team. Steward was an 1st team AA and a Butkus award finalist. He never to my knowledge played a down in the NFL.

 

Example 2. Doug Coleman was an LB on that also and even started about half the games that year until he was over taken by Phil Ellis who started the rest of the year and all the next year at MLB. Ellis never played a down in the NFL but Coleman played 5-6 years in the NFL.

 

Example 3. Jay Forman played LB on from 95' to 98' he then played 7-8 years of pro ball. He started at Will LB as a RSFr, but then was moved to being a backup at MLB behind Jon Hesse. Why wasn't he playing in front of Hesse who I believe was originally a walk-on.

 

I can go on and on with examples like this, but what the use, you refuse to listen to arguments that state otherwise.

 

Hi, lurking for a while, and had to join so I could respond to this reply. We were family friends with the Hesse's, and Jon was not a walk on. He was a scholarship player for sure. The kid was athlete of the year his senior year in the state out of Lincoln Southeast. He was pretty damn good. He really made his way up the ladder on special teams. He would absolutely blow people up on kick offs and punt returns.

[Ziggy]

I just wanted to add, that Pelini was recruiting for the Big 12 and the Peso defense to stop the spread, when we switched to the big 10, the team starting looking for bigger DL and bigger LB, which changed our recruiting style. We are fine at positions they didn't change like DB and offense, because they were recruited the same all the way through. We went from needing 3 or 4 LBs to 8 to 10. And our DL has been having health issues ever since Suh left. Lastly, many of our young players need to learn the system, and Pelini admitted he could have used many of our DL recruits and that may have helped solidify our problems at DT.

[junior4949]

We have for the most part been a jeckyl and hyde team for a while now. Football isn't like a box of chocolates where one doesn't know what they're going to get week to week game to game. Wisconsin may very well have improved throughout the season last year, but no way did they improve as much as we made it appear in the title game. We seem to play as though we're waiting for the other proverbial shoe to drop. Once it does, we fold like a chair.

 

This past draft really didn't surprise me much with the exception of Burkhead. However, once he ran his 40 at the combine even where he fell to wasn't a huge surprise. For as much as Suh obviously benefited from being coached by Bo his last two years, there's a player coached by Bo that got the short end of the stick in Baker Stein. He was a five star recruit, but it wasn't as a DL. It was as an OL. While I understand the circumstances and lack of depth that landed him on the DL, it more than likely cost him a NFL career.

 

There was a thread here discussing the Solich curse. While I really don't believe in curses, it does appear Bo is somewhat being cursed much like Solich was with regards to recruits. Solich recruited the likes of David Horne, Thunder Collins, Randy Stella, etc. They never panned out. Bo has missed on some recruits as well particularly at QB. One would think as the staff works with one another year in and year out that this will eventually correct itself.

[The Dude]

That may have been a bad way of putting it on EZ's part. But how bout this.

 

In our 4 losses, we saw clearly how bad the defense could be. It's still one hell of an accomplishment by staff and players alike that they found a way to put together some solid enough defensive performances to get to 10 wins. I dont care what the competition is.

All those wins were against terrible offenses, though. Ohio State was the best offense we faced in-conference, and that offense was ranked 47th nationally. And even that mediocre offense ended up hanging 63 on us.

 

I think it's more accurate to say we had solid enough offensive performances to get 10 wins, despite mostly awful defensive play.

You reiterated the whole point. All you did was point out the implied asterisk.

 

Regardless. Against Northwestern when the offense and special teams were crapping their pants, it was the defense getting stop after stop to keep us in the game.

 

Michigan game. Defense kept getting stops whent he offense couldnt blow it open.

 

Michigan St. Defense got stop to get us the ball back time and time again.

 

Penn St. Defense held them to field goals when the game coudlve been over at halftime.

 

Iowa. Defense had to win that game plain and simple.

 

I don't think Michigan State and Iowa games are good examples of solid defense. Michigan State had one of their better games offensively against our defense. That offense was putrid, but they didn't have much problem marching down the field against us. The wind played more defense in the Iowa game than either team. It's not like the weather only affected one team.

 

I thought the defense had a good game against Michigan, but again Michigan had a bad offense, and even worse than usually since that Bellomy guy was in there for over half the game. The defense wasn't completely horrible in the Penn State and Northwestern games, but they weren't all that great either. And again we're talking about bad offenses.

 

I guess my idea of solid defense is just a little different than yours. Playing okay against bad offenses isn't my idea of solid. How much of it just had to do with those offenses just being bad? It would be a lot easier to buy the "defense was solid" narrative if the defense wasn't embarrassed by both decent offenses we played, and even more embarrassed by two pretty mediocre offenses.

[True2tRA]

Overall pretty good discussion, and most people do have valid points. Even with differing opinions, we all have some facts to back up each theory. Maybe all of these changes, changes in conference, staff changes, and the fact that we still have a very young inexperienced HC have really combined to make this road tougher than we all once thought it would be. I know I thought by this point we would have a couple of Conference Championships in the trophy case. Maybe even a top 10 or top 5 finish by season's end at least once already. But yea, let's face it, there's been a lot of change at this place. We need some continuity in coaching, and obviously we can count on some continuity in conference. Unfortunately, the divisions and our opponents continue to change every other day it seems.

 

Still, I sense a feeling of optimism toward this season. A dull, seemingly "winnable" schedule, combined with what we all think will be one of the top offenses in the country, a four year starter returning for his senior season at QB, and what should be a more athletic defense. It all could combine to make this season a special one. Even though I said we have no factual basis to judge the incoming talent, I still get a good feeling about a lot of these guys. The athleticism is there. I wish we had gotten them more playing time so we could all claim that the experience factor was there as well. It isn't though. Lavonte David showed what athleticism can do in this scheme though, so it has been done before. Time to throw these yung'uns to the wolves and let it be what it is. We can't keep waiting anymore. I think we all agree on that.

[Landlord]

That may have been a bad way of putting it on EZ's part. But how bout this.

 

In our 4 losses, we saw clearly how bad the defense could be. It's still one hell of an accomplishment by staff and players alike that they found a way to put together some solid enough defensive performances to get to 10 wins. I dont care what the competition is.

All those wins were against terrible offenses, though. Ohio State was the best offense we faced in-conference, and that offense was ranked 47th nationally. And even that mediocre offense ended up hanging 63 on us.

 

I think it's more accurate to say we had solid enough offensive performances to get 10 wins, despite mostly awful defensive play.

You reiterated the whole point. All you did was point out the implied asterisk.

 

Regardless. Against Northwestern when the offense and special teams were crapping their pants, it was the defense getting stop after stop to keep us in the game.

 

Michigan game. Defense kept getting stops whent he offense couldnt blow it open.

 

Michigan St. Defense got stop to get us the ball back time and time again.

 

Penn St. Defense held them to field goals when the game coudlve been over at halftime.

 

Iowa. Defense had to win that game plain and simple.

 

I don't think Michigan State and Iowa games are good examples of solid defense. Michigan State had one of their better games offensively against our defense. That offense was putrid, but they didn't have much problem marching down the field against us. The wind played more defense in the Iowa game than either team. It's not like the weather only affected one team.

 

I thought the defense had a good game against Michigan, but again Michigan had a bad offense, and even worse than usually since that Bellomy guy was in there for over half the game. The defense wasn't completely horrible in the Penn State and Northwestern games, but they weren't all that great either. And again we're talking about bad offenses.

 

I guess my idea of solid defense is just a little different than yours. Playing okay against bad offenses isn't my idea of solid. How much of it just had to do with those offenses just being bad? It would be a lot easier to buy the "defense was solid" narrative if the defense wasn't embarrassed by both decent offenses we played, and even more embarrassed by two pretty mediocre offenses.

 

 

The point wasn't necessarily that we didn't give up yards or points, but that we got stops when we needed to to keep our team in the game.

[NUinID]

Fact is, yeah, we knew a few of these guys were terrible. Meredith, Steinkuhler, Compton, and in my opinion Stafford should not have been starting players at a Division 1 University like Nebraska. Yet, the NFL scouts didn't highly value guys I thought were pretty good ball players like Burkhead, Martin, Reed, and Cotton. So I just have to agree to disagree with those NFL scouts. I hope those players prove them wrong.

 

Here's the problem. Every one of these guys that was eligible for the draft a week ago was a former starter at their position last year correct? Meaning, they started over somebody who is on the current roster ? Correct?

 

Which leads me to two questions in my mind. Please explain to me why some of you have such a hard time seeing that if the best talent scouts in the world don't think these guys were worth sh#t, yet this entire class is made up of former starters...........How is it that does not reflect somewhat poorly on the guys behind them? Not adding up to me? To simplify it as much as possible.....if they suck, but they were better than you, then doesn't that mean you suck more? One would have to believe that purely by logic.

 

Second problem. Let's say for instance, EZ-E is right, and somehow these guys that we know nothing about, and haven't played more than a handful of snaps at this level, are somehow going to blow the lid off their future NFL drafts. These guys are just gonna make this NFL draft class a fluke, a long forgotten memory, never to be seen again. Well then wouldn't one have to think, if these guys are so damn good, what the f#*k are they doing riding the pine behind this class of Undrafted free agents? Doesn't make sense. You can try to pretend it makes sense, but it doesn't so I refuse to listen to any arguments that state otherwise.

 

Fact is, these young players "on the come" as Bo puts it ( God I hate that saying) might be, and in my belief, probably are more talented than the group of guys that just left. But what factual basis do we stand on when we say that. Really, we just hope to hell they are better. We want to believe it because let's face it, last year we got our asses kicked pretty severely at times. If they are better, then what the f#*k are they doing on the sidelines? That is also a problem. It's got to be fixed. You can write this draft off as nothing more than a fluke, with no indication of the future what so ever. But some of you act like you can't even connect the dots and see how one would come to the conclusion that maybe we don't have a lot of talent on this roster, which.........we do.

 

 

I'll give it a try and use examples. Not every good player in college is a good fit for pro football.

 

Example 1. Ed Steward, and Troy Dumas were starting LBs on NU's 1994 National Championship team. Steward was an 1st team AA and a Butkus award finalist. He never to my knowledge played a down in the NFL.

 

Example 2. Doug Coleman was an LB on that also and even started about half the games that year until he was over taken by Phil Ellis who started the rest of the year and all the next year at MLB. Ellis never played a down in the NFL but Coleman played 5-6 years in the NFL.

 

Example 3. Jay Forman played LB on from 95' to 98' he then played 7-8 years of pro ball. He started at Will LB as a RSFr, but then was moved to being a backup at MLB behind Jon Hesse. Why wasn't he playing in front of Hesse who I believe was originally a walk-on.

 

I can go on and on with examples like this, but what the use, you refuse to listen to arguments that state otherwise.

 

Hi, lurking for a while, and had to join so I could respond to this reply. We were family friends with the Hesse's, and Jon was not a walk on. He was a scholarship player for sure. The kid was athlete of the year his senior year in the state out of Lincoln Southeast. He was pretty damn good. He really made his way up the ladder on special teams. He would absolutely blow people up on kick offs and punt returns.

 

Thank's said I thought he was a walk-on wasn't 100% sure. I do remember Jon not playing a ton except on ST until his senior year.

[AllNRed]

Hey guys how's everybody?

 

Couple things I've noticed are some just odd opinions and viewpoints that hopefully I can help put into perspective.

 

1) People claim we don't have NFL talent.

 

It was evident that we didn't have any seniors that were worthy of being drafted. In my opinion, that is correct. We didn't recruit very well in 08 and 09. Those would have been this years seniors. Don't make the mistake that we don't have NFL talent in the lower classes though. We have players that will be drafted. Just not in the 2013 draft.

 

2) We haven't developed the kids we have.

 

I don't believe you should use a draft class as proof of that. After Eric Martin's sophomore year I as on record saying he would never have a major impact on our team. He developed into a good college defensive end that I would take back for this year. Jake Cotton is a kid that will be drafted as is Spencer Long and they were both nowhere near as highly touted as Andrew Rodriguez. These are just very small examples, but my point stands that the 2013 draft class does not indicate how we are developing our young men.

 

3) Our scheme on defense isn't one that will win games

 

Listen, Les Miles before he hired Bo said that he was one of the toughest DCs to gameplan for because his scheme changes with the way he wants to go at offenses. In my opinion, we did not have the horses to run what Bo wants. That stems back to the 08 and 09 class. Which ultimately you have to hold Bo accountable for and he has accepted the blame. Patience is what I will tell you.

 

4) Our Coaching Staff isn't competent

 

Well, based on points one and two, shouldn't we credit the coaching staff's schemes week in and week out that allowed us to win games against teams with more experienced NFL draftees??? I don't think it's unfair to ask.

 

Cheers guys

 

 

1. Bo's first class was roughly put together in a matter of 2-4 months. It was also coming off of one of the worse showings by a Husker team since Eisenhower was in office. This is a first year head coach trying to rebuild a powerhouse from scratch. Because of the type of program Nebraska is, the expectation were high, but realistically, Bo accomplished more than anyone should have expected. 09's class gave him his first full year to put a class together. Though we had a jewel hear and there come from those two classes, any one who expected much from those two classes to lead us to the "promise land" simply ignored reality. It was two classes put together for a team that had yet to establish an identity. When recruiting, prospects want to know what is expected of them at their position (example.....WR/TE how many catches will I be expecting or am I going to be blocking the whole game or OLinemen are we a downhill rushing attack team or am I required to pass protect in a spread-like offense). All in all those classes were put together to help fill a bunch of holes that were left on the depth chart do to the many many JUCO players that had been recruited by the previous staff.

 

2. Those who whine about no development haven't been paying attention what so ever. A program like NU is not going to be able to compete in a conference like the Big 10 without development in it's players. Bo and his staff is averaging 9.6 wins a season with a group of kids that some are claiming not to be developed. I honest don't understand that logic. Especially when I look at players like Eric Martin/Rex Burkhead/Will Compton/Taylor Martinez/Jamal Turner/Stanley Jean-Baptiste/Ciante Evans/etc.....whom are significantly better than they were when they first step foot on campus.

 

3. The scheme happened to work during the 09 season. It make a National Title contending Texas squad struggle for 4 quarters. Had we had a pulse on offense, that would have been a win for the Huskers and we wouldn't have cared that an extra second was added on. The same scheme was working in 2010 when we made NFL caliber QBs like Washington's Jake Locker look like a 2nd string JUCO player. The difference between those two squads and the two unit most recent units is the athleticism that was asked to carry out the assignments. When you have a defense that contains athletes like N.Suh, P.Amukumara, A.Denard, E.Hagg,L.David, J.Crick, D.Gomes, L.Asante, P.Dillard, etc.....and replace them with W.Compton, S.Fisher, P.J.Smith, A.Whaley, C.Meredith, J.Ankrah, etc......no offense but they are honestly not the same caliber of athlete as the previous blackshirt unit. The most recent recruiting classes show that the staff understands this and thus we should be hopeful that the speed and athletcism coming in will gain maturity and experience soon so that we can see why the nation considers Bo one of the best defensive minds out there.

 

4. Our coaching staff has some flaws (experience), but I see growth every year, and Bo seems to at least be willing to enhance the strength of his staff based on the chemistry between each. An example is getting rid of S.Watson and Promoting T.Beck or replacing Coach Raymond with Coach Joseph. This staff is a step ahead in the recruiting than it was 3-4 years ago and they are/have established an identity on office which was very much in question up til 2011.

 

 

(Why has it taken so long for me to actually post on this board, I have no idea. Good conversations though)

[knapplc]

(Why has it taken so long for me to actually post on this board, I have no idea. Good conversations though)

 

After four years - welcome!

[AllNRed]

3) Our scheme on defense isn't one that will win games

 

Listen, Les Miles before he hired Bo said that he was one of the toughest DCs to gameplan for because his scheme changes with the way he wants to go at offenses. In my opinion, we did not have the horses to run what Bo wants. That stems back to the 08 and 09 class. Which ultimately you have to hold Bo accountable for and he has accepted the blame. Patience is what I will tell you.

 

Pelini hasn't shown he can run an effective defense that doesn't have top level NFL talent. LSU, Oklahoma, and here all his top defenses had multiple first round talent. Pelini so far has shown he's an average defensive coach, that only excels with top talent. This year will be a test as how good of a d-coach he is.

 

Though Bo's most recent unit wasn't dominant it still was 2nd nationally in pass defense. This is with a defensive unit that had only 1 player drafted and that was in the last round. The defense was still #55 overall out of 125 programs. That says that he is able to still get his defense to function and be effective. No coach in the nation is getting their defense to dominate week in and week out with out top level NFL talent. And before anyone suggest Bowling Green or Rutgers or any other non AQ conference team did it, look at the offenses and opponents they put the numbers up on. And even those programs have "all conference" players throughout their defenses which allows them to be at least a step ahead of their conference foes.

[AllNRed]

(Why has it taken so long for me to actually post on this board, I have no idea. Good conversations though)

 

After four years - welcome!

 

I had to go back in my email to find out what my password was.....

[Count 'Bility]

My reason for confidence?

 

Bo fixed the defense-twice('03). Then he fixed the offense. Pretty sure he can fix the defense again.

[knapplc]

Pretty sure he can fix the defense again.

 

The defense has to want to be fixed. There was a level of apathy on the last few defenses that should concern anyone. These guys may have talent, but if they don't care, they're not going to succeed.

[Junior]

Hey guys how's everybody?

 

Couple things I've noticed are some just odd opinions and viewpoints that hopefully I can help put into perspective.

 

1) People claim we don't have NFL talent.

 

It was evident that we didn't have any seniors that were worthy of being drafted. In my opinion, that is correct. We didn't recruit very well in 08 and 09. Those would have been this years seniors. Don't make the mistake that we don't have NFL talent in the lower classes though. We have players that will be drafted. Just not in the 2013 draft.

 

2) We haven't developed the kids we have.

 

I don't believe you should use a draft class as proof of that. After Eric Martin's sophomore year I as on record saying he would never have a major impact on our team. He developed into a good college defensive end that I would take back for this year. Jake Cotton is a kid that will be drafted as is Spencer Long and they were both nowhere near as highly touted as Andrew Rodriguez. These are just very small examples, but my point stands that the 2013 draft class does not indicate how we are developing our young men.

 

3) Our scheme on defense isn't one that will win games

 

Listen, Les Miles before he hired Bo said that he was one of the toughest DCs to gameplan for because his scheme changes with the way he wants to go at offenses. In my opinion, we did not have the horses to run what Bo wants. That stems back to the 08 and 09 class. Which ultimately you have to hold Bo accountable for and he has accepted the blame. Patience is what I will tell you.

 

4) Our Coaching Staff isn't competent

 

Well, based on points one and two, shouldn't we credit the coaching staff's schemes week in and week out that allowed us to win games against teams with more experienced NFL draftees??? I don't think it's unfair to ask.

 

Cheers guys

 

Only one team in the Big 10 had more than 3 draft picks(Illinois). Don't act like the talent on the teams we beat is head and shoulders above ours. The only position you could make a case for is at defensive tackle.

 

This is an excellent point. The Big 10 is pitiful right now, and the premier competition we faced out of conference, UCLA and Georgia.... it didn't go very well.