Landlord Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 You wanted to punch a guy who said something you didn't agree with. So since he didn't see christianity the same way you do, you're going to kick his ass. Now that is some logic we can all agree with... I'm not a good man. I've only received a good man's pay. Have you really never had unjustified and illogical anger towards people? I'm not excusing my frustration and anger; it's not logical or right. It's wrong. What point are you trying to make? That I'm no better or maybe even worse than you? That I'm a hypocrite? Agreed on all accounts and then some. Then you should probably go out and get yourself some jesus... heard he helps with this kinda thing... Bolded the sentence after the one you bolded to show you that I have. How is he a "wishy washy bad example" of your faith by saying that Hell is a concept invented by the Church? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the modern concept of Hell that most Christians know isn't in the Bible. You are wrong, but even if you weren't, the modern concept of Hell is closer than "Hell is an invention" to what the Bible teaches: Luke 16:24 "And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’" Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” 2 Thessalonians 1:5-9 "This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might," Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." Matthew 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Revelation 20:15 "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 How is he a "wishy washy bad example" of your faith by saying that Hell is a concept invented by the Church? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the modern concept of Hell that most Christians know isn't in the Bible. Burke- His comments on that subject, while somewhat wrong, were not what I found so distasteful about the little video clip. In fact, I sort of agree that religions, to various extents, do use reward and punishment as a means of control. The Catholic religion, of which I am a member, is probably the most notorious for this tactic. It happens to be one of the things I do not like about it. And, my concept of hell does not necessarily align with Dante's Inferno. The thing I know about hell is that it is an eternity outside of Gods presence. It can be debated if that will involve fiery torment and pain or not but, I digress. My basic problem with this doofus is that purportedly he is a Christian yet the message I got from the video clip is that we simply need to be more human. There are some core, basic principles, that come with being identified as a Christian, the key one being that Christ died for our sins, we are sinful beings, and we are saved by grace through that belief. Then, this joker comes along and basically says "screw all that", what we need is to be more human. Call it my opinion but, that is the last thing we need if we want to subscribe to the Christian faith. And don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less if a person chooses to be Christian or not. But, when a supposed leader in the Christian faith slings this new age, self enlightened horsesh#t, then yeah, I find it to be false teaching and not leading people towards Christ and God. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 So, a collection/abundance of priest ruining the lives of small children in unspeakable ways can be swept under the rug, but one man making claims that go against the views of the Catholic church is unacceptable, even for "one second"? That's one hell of a moral spectrum..... (If this guy is in fact affiliated with the Catholic church)..... I'm not claiming it is right or that's the way it should be but, that it is my take on how they have handled these things. I like that they don't vacillate on dogma and basic principles. I just wish they were as steadfast in doing the right thing when it comes to protecting children. I think they are getting there but I have no idea why it needs to be a slow process. When something is as blatantly wrong as in this issue, I don't understand why it isn't dealt with swiftly and decisively. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 was there a concept of hell before christians? any examples in the old testament? Link to comment
Landlord Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 was there a concept of hell before christians? any examples in the old testament? Jewish tradition has a few different ideas based on different translations of different words. There is 'Sheol', described as a dark/deep region, "The Pit", "The Land of Forgetfulness", etc., as well as 'Gehinom' or 'Gehenn', which was the name of a literal valley south of Jerusalem where child sacrifice was common, but is interpreted to be an allegory of a place of punishment (often associated with fire and generally considered not to be eternal). Later traditions maintained there is no such place and death led to a lack of existence. Mostly, though, Jewish tradition essentially said "don't worry about it." A popular belief in Judaism is that these ideas of afterlife are temporary until the coming of the Messiah and His subsequent judgment of all souls. So Old Testament Jews didn't put much emphasis on it, and New Testament non-Christian Jews don't either, because they are waiting for the Messiah. OT Scripture reflects this with a primary emphasis on living current life. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Hmmmm...my wife has told me to "go to hell" before but that has been after I have been in the "Land of Forgetfulness". That pretty much means I can't go to the "dark deep region" and I might as well be sleeping in "the Pit". Link to comment
sd'sker Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 was there a concept of hell before christians? any examples in the old testament? Jewish tradition has a few different ideas based on different translations of different words. There is 'Sheol', described as a dark/deep region, "The Pit", "The Land of Forgetfulness", etc., as well as 'Gehinom' or 'Gehenn', which was the name of a literal valley south of Jerusalem where child sacrifice was common, but is interpreted to be an allegory of a place of punishment (often associated with fire and generally considered not to be eternal). Later traditions maintained there is no such place and death led to a lack of existence. Mostly, though, Jewish tradition essentially said "don't worry about it." A popular belief in Judaism is that these ideas of afterlife are temporary until the coming of the Messiah and His subsequent judgment of all souls. So Old Testament Jews didn't put much emphasis on it, and New Testament non-Christian Jews don't either, because they are waiting for the Messiah. OT Scripture reflects this with a primary emphasis on living current life. i knew you were the guy to ask. incredibly informative answer. thank you. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Hmmmm...my wife has told me to "go to hell" before but that has been after I have been in the "Land of Forgetfulness". That pretty much means I can't go to the "dark deep region" and I might as well be sleeping in "the Pit". Sounds to me like your wife is offering you a quiet reprieve to the man cave. Lucky duck! Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Hey....I should do this every year on Master's weekend. Link to comment
walksalone Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'm not a good man. I've only received a good man's pay. Have you really never had unjustified and illogical anger towards people? I'm not excusing my frustration and anger; it's not logical or right. It's wrong. What point are you trying to make? That I'm no better or maybe even worse than you? That I'm a hypocrite? Agreed on all accounts and then some. Then you should probably go out and get yourself some jesus... heard he helps with this kinda thing... Bolded the sentence after the one you bolded to show you that I have. So whats jesus pay, I'm thinking at least 10 bucks an hour... Link to comment
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