Determining Right & Wrong

[Landlord]

The last few weeks have had a more frequent than usual amount of discussions centering around moral issues and ideologies.

 

So I won't bore you - how do we, how do you, determine what is or is not moral?

 

 

If you're religious it's a pretty simple answer to say that God not only determines right and wrong, but is right in His very essence. But that can still be a copout answer because even if God is perfectly righteous we are not God and our ability to discern right and wrong is still contingent on our somewhat unreliable human brains.

 

If you don't ascribe to faith, it might get trickier. Are you a relativist? Most people don't seem to be, so where do you find ultimate authority on moral matters? Tschu had the audacity to tell me I was on the wrong side of a moral issue re: homosexuality, which is fine he can say whatever he wants, but according to what morals?

 

Is morality defined by the fickle and ever-changing values of our present culture?

 

Is morality determined by the majority?

 

Where does authority lie?

[knapplc]

Right and wrong changes by situation and involvement.

 

It's right and proper for certain girls to walk around in yoga pants for my appreciation. It is 100% NOT right and proper for anyone to so ogle my wife.

 

It's right and proper for a man to kill a man who invades his home and threatens his family. It is not right and proper for a nation to kill everyone in another nation because they invaded.

 

There are things that *I* consider right that society doesn't. I don't get to dictate to society, the whole of us decide together, there's compromise, and we all have to concede something.

 

 

 

There doesn't need to be an ultimate authority. It's OK for times to dictate to us what is right and wrong - to a degree.

[JJ Husker]

 

Is morality defined by the fickle and ever-changing values of our present culture?

 

Is morality determined by the majority?

 

Where does authority lie?

 

Morality is defined by tschu and anything/anyone other than God, a believer, or religion.

 

Morality is determined by the minority, as long as that minority does not believe in God.

 

Authority lies with the individual because, how could the individual ever be wrong? (unless they are using a religious basis or the Bible- then they would be wrong).

 

The thing to keep in mind is that there are no absolute truths regarding morality.

 

How'd I do on the quiz?

[Landlord]

We really don't need any of that in here, please.

[BigRedBuster]

Just like economics, there is a micro and macro morality.

 

Micro morality is taught to me by my parents, teachers, church, personal experiences, community...etc. The combination of those makes me who I am

 

Macro morality is made up of everyone's micro's put together.

 

What I think is missing in many discussions is the "community" part. I believe the community has to have a moral fiber and by doing so, the children that grow up in that community will in large part have that same morality.

[tschu]

Very funny JJ

 

Golden Rule is a good starting point

[zoogs]

I think society determines morality to a very large extent, and that does mean values and morals change over time. Religion is a big part of society and plays a big role in all of this, including changing attitudes. I wouldn't exactly call that fickle. We try our best, but it's not a simple matter and in a lot of areas might not have straightforward, black-and-white answers.

 

There are some common baseline morals that seem almost or completely universally shared as well as timeless. These are, in effect, global absolutes, though I suppose nothing is truly guaranteed to be by design. There are other things that were once OK but we've let go of, for better or for worse.

 

I think most of us feel like there are rights, wrongs, and gray areas. And most of us are interested in devoting personal effort towards figuring out what these are. Society hands down morals but there hasn't ever been a generation that simply accepted everything wholesale without making contributions of their own. And so it goes.

[NUance]

WWJD

[zoogs]

That's pretty good, actually I don't believe in his divinity or infallibility, but that general idea -- what would the person who always does the RIGHT THING do here? -- is very helpful. Helps us try our best!

[Landlord]

zoogs, so when, for example, early american society is totally cool with slavery and treatmen of women as property and slaughtering of native-americans, etc., how do we frame that?

 

Was that society right at the time but no longer right, or admittedly just straight-up wrong, and if it's the latter, then shouldn't that seriously undermine the ability of society to determine morality now?

[JJ Husker]

WWJD

 

How about WWJJD

[BigRedBuster]

Let me ask this....

 

If there is no God and if all we are is one big chemical reaction....why do we have any morals at all?

I know, you don't want to hurt someone. But...why do you care if that person as a chemical reaction is no different than a chemical reaction in some test tube in some scientists lab that he just throws away when done? Emotional pain??? Phewy.....all that is is some chemical going through your brain making you feel that way.

[NUance]

 

WWJD

 

How about WWJJD

 

 

Jumpin' Jehoshaphat!

[zoogs]

zoogs, so when, for example, early american society is totally cool with slavery and treatmen of women as property and slaughtering of native-americans, etc., how do we frame that?

 

Was that society right at the time but no longer right, or admittedly just straight-up wrong, and if it's the latter, then shouldn't that seriously undermine the ability of society to determine morality now?

 

I wouldn't say they were right, or that there is a 'right' answer (which isn't the same thing as 'anything goes', crucially). They were doing the best they could, which may or may not have been good for their times, and we're doing better, having inherited the efforts of all our predecessors. Hopefully we strive enough to do better still for future generations.

 

It doesn't undermine the ability of society to determine morals other than simply point out the fact that no society has ever been perfect in their pursuit -- whether you want to call that pursuit one of human morality or one of understanding divine will. A 21st century understanding of Christian teachings represents a very solid effort, IMO, no less than a 12th century one -- even if we would say the modern one has come a long, long positive way.

 

BRB, what is consciousness? How does all this biology and chemistry come together and result in our sentience? Mind-blowing, right? Yet here we are!

[Ulty]

Morality doesn't have to be too complicated. Does it really need to be any more than whether or not you are harming someone else?