Police Dispatch During Shootings in Dallas and other police topics

[JJ Husker]

 

I'm a black ex-cop, and this is the real truth about race and policing

 

"Nevertheless, many Americans believe that police officers are generally good, noble heroes. A Gallup poll from 2014 asked Americans to rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in various fields: police officers ranked in the top five, just above members of the clergy. The profession — the endeavor — is noble. But this myth about the general goodness of cops obscures the truth of what needs to be done to fix the system. It makes it look like all we need to do is hire good people, rather than fix the entire system. Institutional racism runs throughout our criminal justice system. Its presence in police culture, though often flatly denied by the many police apologists that appear in the media now, has been central to the breakdown in police-community relationships for decades in spite of good people doing police work.

 

Here's what I wish Americans understood about the men and women who serve in their police departments — and what needs to be done to make the system better for everyone."

 

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

 

We can all see what we want to see. The data proves systemic bias towards minorities by our justice system. That doesn't mean the majority of cops are bad, it doesn't mean #BLM is anti-police, it doesn't mean there's a witch hunt going on, it means there is a problem that EVERYONE needs to figure out how to contribute to the solution of, instead of blaming it on others or buckling down in defense of your tribe.

An obviously biased opinion piece that uses a few chosen anecdotes and made up numbers as proof. If a person never wants to see any real advancement made, this is the exact right article to reference in the debate. I don't see where this helps the discourse. At. All.

[Landlord]

An obviously biased opinion piece that uses a few chosen anecdotes and made up numbers as proof. If a person never wants to see any real advancement made, this is the exact right article to reference in the debate. I don't see where this helps the discourse. At. All.

 

 

What's the difference between BRI's and My linked opinion pieces by black cops (or ex-cops) with anecdotal evidence, other than agreeing with one and not the other?

[JJ Husker]

 

An obviously biased opinion piece that uses a few chosen anecdotes and made up numbers as proof. If a person never wants to see any real advancement made, this is the exact right article to reference in the debate. I don't see where this helps the discourse. At. All.

 

 

What's the difference between BRI's and My linked opinion pieces by black cops (or ex-cops) with anecdotal evidence, other than agreeing with one and not the other?

I made my two opposing opinion posts, back to back, on purpose to highlight the differences of opinion.

 

The reason I like one and not the other is because I believe one comes from an unbiased source and the other from a very tainted source. I won't dispute that may be that guy's honest opinion and a summation of his experiences. I'm not claiming there aren't any real problems that can be improved upon. But, I do not believe we can expect to make any real progress from the standpoint and preconceived notion that Police are inherently bad. That is a non starter position as police are necessary and there has to be a basic, remedial level of trust or it will never work. I also believe that if people are really concerned with black lives mattering, then maybe the focus should be on where it will do a vast amount more good, black on black crime. When cases of police shooting blacks, justified and unjustified, number around 100 to 200 annually compared to 4,000 to 7,000 of blacks shooting other blacks, and yet all we hear from BLM is about this relative handful of police on black brutality......well, you tell me where the real problem is.

 

There's a couple things I think I know and one of them is life or death situations will be handled by anyone, particularly by police, in an extremely serious manner. Sure they are trained to deal with these situations but when push comes to shove, they will likely default to protecting numerous uno and their fellow officers. They apply, without bias out of self preservation necessity, everything they know and believe. Given that currently blacks commit a disproportionately higher number of crimes and that police are trusted less by the black community, it becomes a chicken or the egg question of how to correct it. I happen to believe that any real problem needs to be addressed from the viewpoint that police are necessary and generally good if we want to make progress. No progress will be made from the BLM viewpoint. All lives matter and if BLM wants to be taken serious then they should focus on all black lives and all lives generally rather than anecdotal cases where the police involved may have been wrong.

[Landlord]

Seems like a potentially dangerous viewpoint, JJ, and I mean that with all genuine respect. I just watched the movie Spotlight for the first time (fantastic flick if you haven't seen it), and your assessment of the police force sounds similar to the defenses/deflections against accusations of Catholic priests sexually abusing children in Boston. Maybe it's a weird comparison out of nowhere, but we can't be unwilling or even hesitant to give benefit of the doubt to institutions that are so big and have so much clout. As truly noble of a job as it is for someone to want to be a police officer, they should be under very heavy scrutiny because the stakes are too high to just assume the best.

 

 

As far as the turn towards black on black crime, that's racist rhetoric (not calling you a racist, but I think your position on this is likely handed down from some conglomeration of media sources) with a totally bogus sentiment that implies some myth that everyone has equal opportunity and that the only reason blacks are so disenfranchised is because of their own behavior.

 

First thing, supposed "black on black" crime numbers have been steadily improving. The number of homicides per 100,000 and the number of offenders per 100,000 have both been cut almost in half since 1991.

 

Second, you're dreaming if you think that the black community doesn't care about their sons, brothers, fathers, daughters, mothers, etc. being killed by gang violence. They do. Polls show that the black community ranks crime as the most important issue facing the area they live. Further, Black Lives Matter is grassroots, but it isn't just aimed at police brutality; it's aimed at the systems that so often plague the black community, and that lead to not just death, but to continuously high unemployment, entrenched poverty, bleak educational opportunities, racial segregation, economic inequality, generations of trauma, and societal neglect. Look into it and you'll see that the movement is bigger than the biggest headlines on the highest profile cases of young black men being gunned down.

Beyond the data, there’s the anecdotal evidence, and sorry to say it’s super easy to find examples of marches and demonstrations against "black on black" crime. In the last four years, blacks have held community protests against violence in Chicago; New York; Newark, New Jersey; Pittsburgh; Saginaw, Michigan; and Gary, Indiana. There's tons of movies, albums, and sermons from a generation of directors, musicians, and religious leaders, each urging peace and order. You may not have noticed black protests against crime and violence, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t happened. Black Americans—like everyone else—are concerned with what happens in their communities, and at a certain point, pundits who insist otherwise are either lying or willfully ignorant.

 

Third, if you're going to bring up the idea of "black on black" crime, then you need to be consistent. Whites kill whites at the same rate, and there are way more of us, yet I've yet to see anybody actually refer to white-on-white crime as if it's a real thing. Let's actually just ignore race altogether for a second. If we want to focus on the real issues causing death in our country, why are so many people getting fired up about gun control and terrorist attacks? Forget all of that, the focus should be on where it will do a vast amount more good; heart disease, cancer, and medical errors. When cases of terrorism kill at max 60-70 people per year, compared to the 1.3 million that die from the three afore-mentioned causes, where's the real problem here?

[JJ Husker]

Seems like a potentially dangerous viewpoint, JJ, and I mean that with all genuine respect. I just watched the movie Spotlight for the first time (fantastic flick if you haven't seen it), and your assessment of the police force sounds similar to the defenses/deflections against accusations of Catholic priests sexually abusing children in Boston. Maybe it's a weird comparison out of nowhere, but we can't be unwilling or even hesitant to give benefit of the doubt to institutions that are so big and have so much clout. As truly noble of a job as it is for someone to want to be a police officer, they should be under very heavy scrutiny because the stakes are too high to just assume the best.

 

 

As far as the turn towards black on black crime, that's racist rhetoric (not calling you a racist, but I think your position on this is likely handed down from some conglomeration of media sources) with a totally bogus sentiment that implies some myth that everyone has equal opportunity and that the only reason blacks are so disenfranchised is because of their own behavior.

 

First thing, supposed "black on black" crime numbers have been steadily improving. The number of homicides per 100,000 and the number of offenders per 100,000 have both been cut almost in half since 1991.

 

Second, you're dreaming if you think that the black community doesn't care about their sons, brothers, fathers, daughters, mothers, etc. being killed by gang violence. They do. Polls show that the black community ranks crime as the most important issue facing the area they live. Further, Black Lives Matter is grassroots, but it isn't just aimed at police brutality; it's aimed at the systems that so often plague the black community, and that lead to not just death, but to continuously high unemployment, entrenched poverty, bleak educational opportunities, racial segregation, economic inequality, generations of trauma, and societal neglect. Look into it and you'll see that the movement is bigger than the biggest headlines on the highest profile cases of young black men being gunned down.

Beyond the data, there’s the anecdotal evidence, and sorry to say it’s super easy to find examples of marches and demonstrations against "black on black" crime. In the last four years, blacks have held community protests against violence in Chicago; New York; Newark, New Jersey; Pittsburgh; Saginaw, Michigan; and Gary, Indiana. There's tons of movies, albums, and sermons from a generation of directors, musicians, and religious leaders, each urging peace and order. You may not have noticed black protests against crime and violence, but that doesn’t mean they haven’t happened. Black Americans—like everyone else—are concerned with what happens in their communities, and at a certain point, pundits who insist otherwise are either lying or willfully ignorant.

 

Third, if you're going to bring up the idea of "black on black" crime, then you need to be consistent. Whites kill whites at the same rate, and there are way more of us, yet I've yet to see anybody actually refer to white-on-white crime as if it's a real thing. Let's actually just ignore race altogether for a second. If we want to focus on the real issues causing death in our country, why are so many people getting fired up about gun control and terrorist attacks? Forget all of that, the focus should be on where it will do a vast amount more good; heart disease, cancer, and medical errors. When cases of terrorism kill at max 60-70 people per year, compared to the 1.3 million that die from the three afore-mentioned causes, where's the real problem here?

I'll try to keep this short. I do not want anything swept under the rug. When wrongdoing is discovered, it needs to be dealt with. I just don't happen to think protest marches against the police, when the numbers and percentages don't bear out the claims are warranted. The relative small number of blacks being shot by police (some legitimate and some not legitimate) don't deserve the spotlight of the BLM movement that they seem to focus on. I'm not claiming there isn't some degree of a problem. I just think the way that group goes about it exacerbates the problem rather than helping it. I would be much more sympathetic if they responded in a much closer correlation to the real issues affecting their community. I can't give credence to a group or persons whose first assumption, with little to no proof, is racism and wrongdoing by the police. I don't think that is where healing begins.

[Landlord]

I can't give credence to a group or persons whose first assumption, with little to no proof, is racism and wrongdoing by the police. I don't think that is where healing begins.

 

 

I can sympathize with this statement if you're referring to an assumption of specific scenarios, but if you're talking in terms of a big picture... the proof of racial bias in the justice system is overwhelming.

[Moiraine]

 

“When you say ‘black lives matter,’ that’s inherently racist,” the ex-mayor said.

 

Another person who hasn't mastered the English language.

[Apathy]

 

Of course we don't deserve a fair process anymore, you know the one that you're innocent until proven guilty.

 

Huh? Has the officer gone to jail already?

 

Like I've said before, you aren't capable of having a rational discussion about this. You think because you're a good police officer and you know good police officers that no problem exists. You also assume anyone who talks about any of this thinks all police officers are bad.

 

I don't think you're having a rational discussion either.

 

BIGREDIOWAN can't back up his boys in blue but yet its ok for you to ASSUME that all cops caught in these videos are all bad and at fault.....seems like a one way street.

 

I think yourself and others should sit back and wait for all the facts before jumping to their conspiracy theories.

[Apathy]

 

And no one can have a rational discussion with you either Moiraine. You have your side and you are JUST as stubborn as I am whether you'll admit that or not. SAME goes for LOMS, I've argued with you two until I'm blue in the face. The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking. You can bully the discussion all you want. I simply don't care if you agree or not. He's guilty in the eyes of you two along with tons of other people and the media. And LOMS I'm not going into the racial talks with you, I've told you that several times before, not happening.

 

Back to the answer to all problems............gun control.

Ya, that's actually never been how the discussions have gone. Here's a basic rundown:

 

Myself and others:

 

Someone got killed by the police. This is tragic. The circumstances are questionable. I wish police officers had cameras so we could know what happened for sure. It should definitely be investigated.

 

This seems to happen too often where it concerns non-White people. I wonder if there is an issue here. Blacks are being killed at a much higher rate than Whites, even when unarmed.

 

BRI:

 

I'm a police officer. I would never do that and the police officers I know would never do that. Therefore this police officer is innocent and no one has a right to talk about it or think about it or question anything ever.

 

[Apathy]

[JJ Husker]

 

I can't give credence to a group or persons whose first assumption, with little to no proof, is racism and wrongdoing by the police. I don't think that is where healing begins.

 

 

I can sympathize with this statement if you're referring to an assumption of specific scenarios, but if you're talking in terms of a big picture... the proof of racial bias in the justice system is overwhelming.

Yes, I was speaking to specific occurances. And I don't doubt that there is some racial bias in the system. But you don't get rid of racial bias by countering with more racial bias. That was my point and that is how I feel BLM operates, from a point of racial bias. It also doesn't help my opinion of these protests when so often they devolve into rioting and looting and criminal behavior. That is not how you win hearts and minds to the cause.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

Of course we don't deserve a fair process anymore, you know the one that you're innocent until proven guilty.

Huh? Has the officer gone to jail already?

 

Like I've said before, you aren't capable of having a rational discussion about this. You think because you're a good police officer and you know good police officers that no problem exists. You also assume anyone who talks about any of this thinks all police officers are bad.

I don't think you're having a rational discussion either.

 

BIGREDIOWAN can't back up his boys in blue but yet its ok for you to ASSUME that all cops caught in these videos are all bad and at fault.....seems like a one way street.

 

I think yourself and others should sit back and wait for all the facts before jumping to their conspiracy theories.

Have you actually read any other of my posts in this topic or any other related topics? I'm assuming not, since I haven't done those things you just made up in your head and posted. In this discussion I've basically said we don't know all the facts because the police don't have body cameras there.

 

I don't recall making any stand in any of these topics saying the police were guilty. Mostly all I've ever done is point out other people's irrational posts where they say everyone hates the police, or no policemen are racist, based on their anecdotal evidence.

[Landlord]

It also doesn't help my opinion of these protests when so often they devolve into rioting and looting and criminal behavior. That is not how you win hearts and minds to the cause.

 

 

How do you think you and I would have felt about the MLK-led movement and protests in the 60's? Honest question. He was non-violent, but there were plenty of opportunists that used those opportunities to cause mayhem in ways that him and the people following his lead didn't support. I'd guess the narratives often attributed the violence and riots to Dr. King.

[huskerfan2000]

 

 

 

 

 

I was watching the show cops tonight and every person of race.. be it hispanic, black, whatever, continuously fought the police at every corner.. and not just a little bit. Just a constant barrage of hate and threats.

 

So, if Trump is being labeled as a person that is fostering hate, what does that make the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

Hey you guys, all of the non-White people on the show Cops continuously fight the police and make hateful/threatening remarks. This is so alarming I can't even fathom it. That must mean all non-Whites are racist and hateful toward cops! Surely the subjects of an episode of Cops are representative of their respective populations as a whole. Now let's pick the first two Black people we can think of and blame them for this!

 

Now let's not assume that the fact it's a show about Cops arresting people means these people are not exactly upstanding citizens, nor should we assume that the stuff that makes it on TV is the most controversial/entertaining. That'd just be crazy.

 

This is the post of the year right here.

 

Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or do you have an agenda? I clearly said "every person of race" (are whites no longer a race?) I then went on to say .."be it hispanic, black, whatever,"!

 

This did not in anyway exclude whites!!

lol. You specifically mentioned Hispanics, Blacks, Jesse James, and Al Sharpton.

So, because I didn't list out every race then I'm being racist, even though I mentioned every race? Yes, I mentioned Jesse and Al because they are two specific cases of two very outspoken critics of the police and are spreading hate.

 

Is this the liberal mindset? Trump is spreading hate (according to the liberals) and must be stopped, but Jesse and Al are ok? Who are also spreading hate..

 

You took this to another level (suggesting racism) because of your agenda.

Agendaagendaagenda. My "agenda" here is to point out that Cops subjects aren't representative of the population.

 

I also didn't say or try ro imply you were being racist. I assumed by your very suggestive wording that you were implying non-Whites hate cops.

 

Now to your comments that there is more hate in general - I don't disagree with that but I think the police are also getting a lot more love at the same time and regardless, using Cops as your evidence is amusing.

 

 

wouldn't that mean you thought I was being racist? You can find whatever you want as amusing, but cops fairly accurately depicts the feelings towards police officers, especially in the inner cities. That doesn't suggest ALL hate cops (which I never suggested in the first place), it just suggests the hate is growing.

 

Look at these protests.. You think a good portion are being peaceful, which maybe true, but often times they are still breaking the law. Like this girl here..

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/everyone-talking-photo-protests-baton-093922109.html

 

They are making her out be to this serene young lady doing nothing wrong. Guess what? She is standing out in the middle of the street blocking traffic, ignoring a lawful order by the police to not block traffic.

 

These "protesters" believe they don't have to abide by the laws.

[huskerfan2000]