Police Dispatch During Shootings in Dallas and other police topics

[cm husker]

 

 

 

 

 

I was watching the show cops tonight and every person of race.. be it hispanic, black, whatever, continuously fought the police at every corner.. and not just a little bit. Just a constant barrage of hate and threats.

 

So, if Trump is being labeled as a person that is fostering hate, what does that make the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

Hey you guys, all of the non-White people on the show Cops continuously fight the police and make hateful/threatening remarks. This is so alarming I can't even fathom it. That must mean all non-Whites are racist and hateful toward cops! Surely the subjects of an episode of Cops are representative of their respective populations as a whole. Now let's pick the first two Black people we can think of and blame them for this!

 

Now let's not assume that the fact it's a show about Cops arresting people means these people are not exactly upstanding citizens, nor should we assume that the stuff that makes it on TV is the most controversial/entertaining. That'd just be crazy.

 

This is the post of the year right here.

 

Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or do you have an agenda? I clearly said "every person of race" (are whites no longer a race?) I then went on to say .."be it hispanic, black, whatever,"!

 

This did not in anyway exclude whites!!

lol. You specifically mentioned Hispanics, Blacks, Jesse James, and Al Sharpton.

So, because I didn't list out every race then I'm being racist, even though I mentioned every race? Yes, I mentioned Jesse and Al because they are two specific cases of two very outspoken critics of the police and are spreading hate.

 

Is this the liberal mindset? Trump is spreading hate (according to the liberals) and must be stopped, but Jesse and Al are ok? Who are also spreading hate..

 

You took this to another level (suggesting racism) because of your agenda.

A reasonably reader would read your post and draw the conclusion Moiraine did, regardless of agenda. So you either worded your post poorly or intentionally to draw someone into this false equivalency that you're drawing.

[huskerfan2000]

 

 

 

 

 

I was watching the show cops tonight and every person of race.. be it hispanic, black, whatever, continuously fought the police at every corner.. and not just a little bit. Just a constant barrage of hate and threats.

 

So, if Trump is being labeled as a person that is fostering hate, what does that make the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

Hey you guys, all of the non-White people on the show Cops continuously fight the police and make hateful/threatening remarks. This is so alarming I can't even fathom it. That must mean all non-Whites are racist and hateful toward cops! Surely the subjects of an episode of Cops are representative of their respective populations as a whole. Now let's pick the first two Black people we can think of and blame them for this!

 

Now let's not assume that the fact it's a show about Cops arresting people means these people are not exactly upstanding citizens, nor should we assume that the stuff that makes it on TV is the most controversial/entertaining. That'd just be crazy.

 

This is the post of the year right here.

 

Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or do you have an agenda? I clearly said "every person of race" (are whites no longer a race?) I then went on to say .."be it hispanic, black, whatever,"!

 

This did not in anyway exclude whites!!

lol. You specifically mentioned Hispanics, Blacks, Jesse James, and Al Sharpton.

So, because I didn't list out every race then I'm being racist, even though I mentioned every race? Yes, I mentioned Jesse and Al because they are two specific cases of two very outspoken critics of the police and are spreading hate.

 

Is this the liberal mindset? Trump is spreading hate (according to the liberals) and must be stopped, but Jesse and Al are ok? Who are also spreading hate..

 

You took this to another level (suggesting racism) because of your agenda.

A reasonably reader would read your post and draw the conclusion Moiraine did, regardless of agenda. So you either worded your post poorly or intentionally to draw someone into this false equivalency that you're drawing.

 

 

What false equivalency do you think I am drawing? Trump and Al/Jesse, or that all races are showing more hate towards police, or that hate speech such as Al/Jesse's make a difference?

[BIGREDIOWAN]

 

The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking.

 

 

 

Yeah....don't think you can find anywhere that I did that.

 

 

 

 

If he didn't, it'll come out and the cop will be prosecuted for it.

 

 

The thing is, no he won't. There's no way the cop gets burned for this even if he's guilty. A dashcam isn't going to show the man's hands inside the car in front of his seat. Nothing is going to shed more insight other than he said/she said, and the cops get the benefit of the doubt every time.

 

 

 

I understand you being a cop and you seem like a good one and I respect that. But your immediate rush to defense in every single one of these situations is scary. Can you explain to me why unarmed black folk are 5x as likely to be shot and killed by police than unarmed white folk, while only making up 13% of the population?

 

How in the hell else am I supposed to take that? Nevermind you've shown a history yourself of jumping on several of these situations and saying the cop is guilty before all the facts even come out. Ferguson should've been a huge wake up call to a lot of folks to keep your opinions to yourselves until all the facts come out. Obviously our dumba$$ president, who I voted for unfortunately.......twice, didn't learn to shut up about these situations and continues to add fuel to the fire resulting in more violence and more deaths. The thing that I try to bring to the table is perspective, you don't have my perspective and training and probably never will. So I try to explain why some things are done a certain way and usually get trashed for it which is complete nonsense.

 

To think I think all cops that are involved in shootings are not guilty of something is completely not true despite what you and others think. I'll wait until all the facts come out before I make my decision however and a large number of folks should do the same. All I'm asking is that folks wait to pass judgement until that all comes out. Until that day comes I'll continue to defend my profession as I'm sick of the hate that goes on a daily basis towards those in law enforcement. Perfection isn't obtainable, but 99.9% of the police in the United States are outstanding professionals doing a difficult job under intensifying scrutiny on a daily basis by those so called "experts" out there who've never done the job, never will do the job, and don't have the guts to do the job yet they think they somehow know how to do it better than all of us. Pick up an application and save the world and show all of us how it's done. We'll show you your seat in the front row to the realities of society and what's actually real and what's actually a fairy tale despite what you're getting fed by the media. Buckle up, cause it's bumpy as hell, grab a vomit bag.

[AFhusker]

 

 

The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking.

 

 

 

Yeah....don't think you can find anywhere that I did that.

 

 

 

 

If he didn't, it'll come out and the cop will be prosecuted for it.

 

 

The thing is, no he won't. There's no way the cop gets burned for this even if he's guilty. A dashcam isn't going to show the man's hands inside the car in front of his seat. Nothing is going to shed more insight other than he said/she said, and the cops get the benefit of the doubt every time.

 

 

 

I understand you being a cop and you seem like a good one and I respect that. But your immediate rush to defense in every single one of these situations is scary. Can you explain to me why unarmed black folk are 5x as likely to be shot and killed by police than unarmed white folk, while only making up 13% of the population?

 

How in the hell else am I supposed to take that? Nevermind you've shown a history yourself of jumping on several of these situations and saying the cop is guilty before all the facts even come out. Ferguson should've been a huge wake up call to a lot of folks to keep your opinions to yourselves until all the facts come out. Obviously our dumba$$ president, who I voted for unfortunately.......twice, didn't learn to shut up about these situations and continues to add fuel to the fire resulting in more violence and more deaths. The thing that I try to bring to the table is perspective, you don't have my perspective and training and probably never will. So I try to explain why some things are done a certain way and usually get trashed for it which is complete nonsense.

 

To think I think all cops that are involved in shootings are not guilty of something is completely not true despite what you and others think. I'll wait until all the facts come out before I make my decision however and a large number of folks should do the same. All I'm asking is that folks wait to pass judgement until that all comes out. Until that day comes I'll continue to defend my profession as I'm sick of the hate that goes on a daily basis towards those in law enforcement. Perfection isn't obtainable, but 99.9% of the police in the United States are outstanding professionals doing a difficult job under intensifying scrutiny on a daily basis by those so called "experts" out there who've never done the job, never will do the job, and don't have the guts to do the job yet they think they somehow know how to do it better than all of us. Pick up an application and save the world and show all of us how it's done. We'll show you your seat in the front row to the realities of society and what's actually real and what's actually a fairy tale despite what you're getting fed by the media. Buckle up, cause it's bumpy as hell, grab a vomit bag.

 

That bolded part is why the race relations have been set back to the 60's and that is the Presidents fault. His irresponsible comments before the facts are known have destroyed the progress that got him elected. He should have been the one who brought people together, instead we have this.

 

5 Statistics You Need To Know About Cops Killing Blacks http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking.

 

 

Yeah....don't think you can find anywhere that I did that.

 

 

If he didn't, it'll come out and the cop will be prosecuted for it.

 

The thing is, no he won't. There's no way the cop gets burned for this even if he's guilty. A dashcam isn't going to show the man's hands inside the car in front of his seat. Nothing is going to shed more insight other than he said/she said, and the cops get the benefit of the doubt every time.

 

 

 

I understand you being a cop and you seem like a good one and I respect that. But your immediate rush to defense in every single one of these situations is scary. Can you explain to me why unarmed black folk are 5x as likely to be shot and killed by police than unarmed white folk, while only making up 13% of the population?

How in the hell else am I supposed to take that? Nevermind you've shown a history yourself of jumping on several of these situations and saying the cop is guilty before all the facts even come out. Ferguson should've been a huge wake up call to a lot of folks to keep your opinions to yourselves until all the facts come out. Obviously our dumba$$ president, who I voted for unfortunately.......twice, didn't learn to shut up about these situations and continues to add fuel to the fire resulting in more violence and more deaths. The thing that I try to bring to the table is perspective, you don't have my perspective and training and probably never will. So I try to explain why some things are done a certain way and usually get trashed for it which is complete nonsense.

 

To think I think all cops that are involved in shootings are not guilty of something is completely not true despite what you and others think. I'll wait until all the facts come out before I make my decision however and a large number of folks should do the same. All I'm asking is that folks wait to pass judgement until that all comes out. Until that day comes I'll continue to defend my profession as I'm sick of the hate that goes on a daily basis towards those in law enforcement. Perfection isn't obtainable, but 99.9% of the police in the United States are outstanding professionals doing a difficult job under intensifying scrutiny on a daily basis by those so called "experts" out there who've never done the job, never will do the job, and don't have the guts to do the job yet they think they somehow know how to do it better than all of us. Pick up an application and save the world and show all of us how it's done. We'll show you your seat in the front row to the realities of society and what's actually real and what's actually a fairy tale despite what you're getting fed by the media. Buckle up, cause it's bumpy as hell, grab a vomit bag.

That bolded part is why the race relations have been set back to the 60's and that is the Presidents fault. His irresponsible comments before the facts are known have destroyed the progress that got him elected. He should have been the one who brought people together, instead we have this.

5 Statistics You Need To Know About Cops Killing Blacks http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

The fact you posted that link shows you don't understand numbers any better than the author. Or maybe they understand, but also know that they're going to dupe a large number of people reading. Someone on my FB friends posted the exact same statistic as in #1 and #2. Let's take the first two of their five facts. They're nearly identical so I'll just quote one:

 

"Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015."

 

Using a sum in this case is just plain stupid. There are 197 million Whites in the U.S. There are 38 million Blacks.

 

If there was no problem (whether it be something the Black community needs to work on or the police need to work on or a combination) then 5.18 times as many Whites would be killed by police. That would be proportional and be very strong evidence that there is no issue with regards to race.

[Moiraine]

And no one can have a rational discussion with you either Moiraine. You have your side and you are JUST as stubborn as I am whether you'll admit that or not. SAME goes for LOMS, I've argued with you two until I'm blue in the face. The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking. You can bully the discussion all you want. I simply don't care if you agree or not. He's guilty in the eyes of you two along with tons of other people and the media. And LOMS I'm not going into the racial talks with you, I've told you that several times before, not happening.

 

Back to the answer to all problems............gun control.

Ya, that's actually never been how the discussions have gone. Here's a basic rundown:

 

Myself and others:

 

Someone got killed by the police. This is tragic. The circumstances are questionable. I wish police officers had cameras so we could know what happened for sure. It should definitely be investigated.

 

This seems to happen too often where it concerns non-White people. I wonder if there is an issue here. Blacks are being killed at a much higher rate than Whites, even when unarmed.

 

BRI:

 

I'm a police officer. I would never do that and the police officers I know would never do that. Therefore this police officer is innocent and no one has a right to talk about it or think about it or question anything ever.

[Moiraine]

 

 

 

 

 

I was watching the show cops tonight and every person of race.. be it hispanic, black, whatever, continuously fought the police at every corner.. and not just a little bit. Just a constant barrage of hate and threats.

 

So, if Trump is being labeled as a person that is fostering hate, what does that make the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

Hey you guys, all of the non-White people on the show Cops continuously fight the police and make hateful/threatening remarks. This is so alarming I can't even fathom it. That must mean all non-Whites are racist and hateful toward cops! Surely the subjects of an episode of Cops are representative of their respective populations as a whole. Now let's pick the first two Black people we can think of and blame them for this!

 

Now let's not assume that the fact it's a show about Cops arresting people means these people are not exactly upstanding citizens, nor should we assume that the stuff that makes it on TV is the most controversial/entertaining. That'd just be crazy.

 

This is the post of the year right here.

 

Do you have a reading comprehension problem, or do you have an agenda? I clearly said "every person of race" (are whites no longer a race?) I then went on to say .."be it hispanic, black, whatever,"!

 

This did not in anyway exclude whites!!

lol. You specifically mentioned Hispanics, Blacks, Jesse James, and Al Sharpton.

So, because I didn't list out every race then I'm being racist, even though I mentioned every race? Yes, I mentioned Jesse and Al because they are two specific cases of two very outspoken critics of the police and are spreading hate.

 

Is this the liberal mindset? Trump is spreading hate (according to the liberals) and must be stopped, but Jesse and Al are ok? Who are also spreading hate..

 

You took this to another level (suggesting racism) because of your agenda.

Agendaagendaagenda. My "agenda" here is to point out that Cops subjects aren't representative of the population.

 

I also didn't say or try ro imply you were being racist. I assumed by your very suggestive wording that you were implying non-Whites hate cops.

 

Now to your comments that there is more hate in general - I don't disagree with that but I think the police are also getting a lot more love at the same time and regardless, using Cops as your evidence is amusing.

[Landlord]

 

And no one can have a rational discussion with you either Moiraine. You have your side and you are JUST as stubborn as I am whether you'll admit that or not. SAME goes for LOMS, I've argued with you two until I'm blue in the face. The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking. You can bully the discussion all you want. I simply don't care if you agree or not. He's guilty in the eyes of you two along with tons of other people and the media. And LOMS I'm not going into the racial talks with you, I've told you that several times before, not happening.

 

Back to the answer to all problems............gun control.

Ya, that's actually never been how the discussions have gone. Here's a basic rundown:

 

Myself and others:

 

Someone got killed by the police. This is tragic. The circumstances are questionable. I wish police officers had cameras so we could know what happened for sure. It should definitely be investigated.

 

This seems to happen too often where it concerns non-White people. I wonder if there is an issue here. Blacks are being killed at a much higher rate than Whites, even when unarmed.

 

BRI:

 

I'm a police officer. I would never do that and the police officers I know would never do that. Therefore this police officer is innocent and no one has a right to talk about it or think about it or question anything ever.

 

 

 

 

To be fair, BRI doesn't usually explicitly say, "No, you're wrong, he's innocent", but he does always defend police officers as a whole, and take the position of giving the benefit of the doubt to the officer in these situations.

 

 

BRI, I'll freely admit to jumping to hasty conclusions in some of these situations. Guilty as charged. I really try hard not to, but I'm working on it. That being said, you always give benefit of the doubt to the officer, because you're an officer. I get that. That's not all that bad of a thing, except it seems like 99.9% of cops give the benefit of the doubt to other cops, which is what results in police departments becoming the "good ole boys" club where they either protect dirty/abusive cops or they refuse to believe that otherwise good cops can act on subconscious bias, and it also makes it way too easy for officers to be above the law in minor to major scenarios, in my opinion.

 

I know it's a tough situation when you have two parties and you have to decide where the benefit of the doubt should be given. Same with rape cases. False accusations do exist, but doesn't it feel kind of dirty to give an alleged rapist the benefit of the doubt over an alleged victim? I'm still trying to figure out where to make sense of all of that when it relates to police and shootings/use of force. However, the data is overwhelmingly clear that minorities and specifically blacks suffer at the hands of police at alarmingly disproportionate rates. That HAS to stop. We HAVE to be able to take hard looks in the mirror and honestly entertain the idea that we might be part of the problem.

 

The Dallas PD did this. Instead of responding to any criticism with "99% of cops are good and we're sick of the criticisms", they asked, "What about these criticisms is true and how can we do better?" So they improved their training, their accountability, and their interaction with their community.

 

Excessive force complaints dropped 64%, assaults on officers dropped 30%, and police shootings dropped 40%. That's less tension, more respect, and more people still alive, and that's to be commended. How many police departments are led with that kind of humility and determination to do what they can on their end to make things better?

[huKSer]

This was interesting. Not coming to any conclusions, just sharing some background information like BRI would like for us to do. Castile might have projected a less than pleasant mood after being pulled over again. Which would have made the officer to heighten his sense of alertness.

 

Minnesota police stopped Castile a staggering 52 times in the last 14 years. The stops - averaging one every four months dating back to George Bush's first year in the White House - resulted in 86 violations, the Associated Press reported.

Less than half of the charges were ever prosecuted, with Castile pleading guilty to minor counts that included driving with a revoked license and driving without proof of insurance.

All the citations were for petty misdemeanors or misdemeanors, and he paid a total of $6,588 in fines.

The charges most often dismissed were failure to wear a seat belt — along with driving without proof of insurance and driving with a revoked license.

 

[Moiraine]

 

This was interesting. Not coming to any conclusions, just sharing some background information like BRI would like for us to do. Castile might have projected a less than pleasant mood after being pulled over again. Which would have made the officer to heighten his sense of alertness.

 

Minnesota police stopped Castile a staggering 52 times in the last 14 years. The stops - averaging one every four months dating back to George Bush's first year in the White House - resulted in 86 violations, the Associated Press reported.

Less than half of the charges were ever prosecuted, with Castile pleading guilty to minor counts that included driving with a revoked license and driving without proof of insurance.

All the citations were for petty misdemeanors or misdemeanors, and he paid a total of $6,588 in fines.

The charges most often dismissed were failure to wear a seat belt along with driving without proof of insurance and driving with a revoked license.

 

Good post. And that's another issue altogether. If he's being pulled over and the things they're finding are things they couldn't have known about before pulling him over, why is he being pulled over more than 4 times per year?

[Enhance]

Innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental albeit amorphous concept.

 

However, it is the basis on which we approach the law and those who break it. In the case of these most recent two examples, we can (and should) approach the situation from a position of fairness. The situation should be investigated, is being investigated and will be investigated further. This is how the country already approaches every single officer involved shooting.

 

Furthermore, while I think is a discussion worth pursuing, perhaps it should be done elsewhere. I personally don't believe it is directly relative to the gun control debate, unless the discussion shifts from this current trend into one about how guns/gun laws may have prevented/enabled the most recent killings.

[AFhusker]

 

 

 

 

The fact that you're ready to jump all over this officer is equally as shocking.

 

 

Yeah....don't think you can find anywhere that I did that.

 

If he didn't, it'll come out and the cop will be prosecuted for it.

 

The thing is, no he won't. There's no way the cop gets burned for this even if he's guilty. A dashcam isn't going to show the man's hands inside the car in front of his seat. Nothing is going to shed more insight other than he said/she said, and the cops get the benefit of the doubt every time.

 

 

 

I understand you being a cop and you seem like a good one and I respect that. But your immediate rush to defense in every single one of these situations is scary. Can you explain to me why unarmed black folk are 5x as likely to be shot and killed by police than unarmed white folk, while only making up 13% of the population?

How in the hell else am I supposed to take that? Nevermind you've shown a history yourself of jumping on several of these situations and saying the cop is guilty before all the facts even come out. Ferguson should've been a huge wake up call to a lot of folks to keep your opinions to yourselves until all the facts come out. Obviously our dumba$$ president, who I voted for unfortunately.......twice, didn't learn to shut up about these situations and continues to add fuel to the fire resulting in more violence and more deaths. The thing that I try to bring to the table is perspective, you don't have my perspective and training and probably never will. So I try to explain why some things are done a certain way and usually get trashed for it which is complete nonsense.

 

To think I think all cops that are involved in shootings are not guilty of something is completely not true despite what you and others think. I'll wait until all the facts come out before I make my decision however and a large number of folks should do the same. All I'm asking is that folks wait to pass judgement until that all comes out. Until that day comes I'll continue to defend my profession as I'm sick of the hate that goes on a daily basis towards those in law enforcement. Perfection isn't obtainable, but 99.9% of the police in the United States are outstanding professionals doing a difficult job under intensifying scrutiny on a daily basis by those so called "experts" out there who've never done the job, never will do the job, and don't have the guts to do the job yet they think they somehow know how to do it better than all of us. Pick up an application and save the world and show all of us how it's done. We'll show you your seat in the front row to the realities of society and what's actually real and what's actually a fairy tale despite what you're getting fed by the media. Buckle up, cause it's bumpy as hell, grab a vomit bag.

That bolded part is why the race relations have been set back to the 60's and that is the Presidents fault. His irresponsible comments before the facts are known have destroyed the progress that got him elected. He should have been the one who brought people together, instead we have this.

5 Statistics You Need To Know About Cops Killing Blacks http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

The fact you posted that link shows you don't understand numbers any better than the author. Or maybe they understand, but also know that they're going to dupe a large number of people reading. Someone on my FB friends posted the exact same statistic as in #1 and #2. Let's take the first two of their five facts. They're nearly identical so I'll just quote one:

 

"Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015."

 

Using a sum in this case is just plain stupid. There are 197 million Whites in the U.S. There are 38 million Blacks.

 

If there was no problem (whether it be something the Black community needs to work on or the police need to work on or a combination) then 5.18 times as many Whites would be killed by police. That would be proportional and be very strong evidence that there is no issue with regards to race.

 

This was the main point of the numbers:

 

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

 

 

What that is saying that while there are less blacks, they disappointingly commit violent crimes. On top of the numbers above, CNN stated that while black males are 6% of the population they commit 37% of the violent crime overall. That is where there needs to be improvement and where the real solution to this issue will come from, if they don't get into those situations then they won't have to worry about bad cops. Not to mention that the cops who do kill blacks, the majority of those are Hispanic or black cops. But that doesn't fit the agenda of the media so that doesn't get covered. Then if you read the bottom of the article, it is more likely that a black civilian is more likely to kill a cop than it is the other way around. So why is it such a surprise that cops are jumpy when they are questioning black males? With that said, that doesn't give them an excuse to shoot first and ask questions later and every death by cop needs to be investigated no matter the race of everyone involved.

[AFhusker]

Innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental albeit amorphous concept.

 

However, it is the basis on which we approach the law and those who break it. In the case of these most recent two examples, we can (and should) approach the situation from a position of fairness. The situation should be investigated, is being investigated and will be investigated further. This is how the country already approaches every single officer involved shooting.

 

Furthermore, while I think is a discussion worth pursuing, perhaps it should be done elsewhere. I personally don't believe it is directly relative to the gun control debate, unless the discussion shifts from this current trend into one about how guns/gun laws may have prevented/enabled the most recent killings.

The issue here is when we have leaders such as the President making statements insinuate that the police are guilty until proven innocent before the facts are found out. This isn't an issue where you need to pick a side, you can be against bad cops and cop killers such as the one in Dallas. Then on the other side, you can't have equally as ignorant republican elected officials say that "this is war" towards the president. This is time where we need to come together and have a real discussion, not separate us. Bad "leadership" on both sides are why we are in such bad shape when it comes to race relations.

[Landlord]

What that is saying that while there are less blacks, they disappointingly commit violent crimes. On top of the numbers above, CNN stated that while black males are 6% of the population they commit 37% of the violent crime overall. That is where there needs to be improvement and where the real solution to this issue will come from, if they don't get into those situations then they won't have to worry about bad cops. Not to mention that the cops who do kill blacks, the majority of those are Hispanic or black cops. But that doesn't fit the agenda of the media so that doesn't get covered. Then if you read the bottom of the article, it is more likely that a black civilian is more likely to kill a cop than it is the other way around. So why is it such a surprise that cops are jumpy when they are questioning black males? With that said, that doesn't give them an excuse to shoot first and ask questions later and every death by cop needs to be investigated no matter the race of everyone involved.

 

 

 

There is definitely something to be said for different people groups being more or less violent than others, for sure. To deny or ignore that is just avoiding the truth because it's uncomfortable. However, as I think you'd agree, it's not the entirety of the situation.

 

Even if the numbers on how much crime is committed are accurate, there are other numbers that are pretty damning. Such as black minors being 18x more likely to be tried as adults than white minors, for the same crimes. Another pretty awful one is the rate of convictions on minor drug offenses, despite the same amount of use across different races.

 

These situations have a ton of factors and nuance and are complicated, and as such need to be dealt with creatively and from many different directions.

[Enhance]

 

Innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental albeit amorphous concept.

 

However, it is the basis on which we approach the law and those who break it. In the case of these most recent two examples, we can (and should) approach the situation from a position of fairness. The situation should be investigated, is being investigated and will be investigated further. This is how the country already approaches every single officer involved shooting.

 

Furthermore, while I think is a discussion worth pursuing, perhaps it should be done elsewhere. I personally don't believe it is directly relative to the gun control debate, unless the discussion shifts from this current trend into one about how guns/gun laws may have prevented/enabled the most recent killings.

The issue here is when we have leaders such as the President making statements insinuate that the police are guilty until proven innocent before the facts are found out. This isn't an issue where you need to pick a side, you can be against bad cops and cop killers such as the one in Dallas. Then on the other side, you can't have equally as ignorant republican elected officials say that "this is war" towards the president. This is time where we need to come together and have a real discussion, not separate us. Bad "leadership" on both sides are why we are in such bad shape when it comes to race relations.

 

I agree with much of what you're saying.

 

However, it doesn't change how our legal system works. It also doesn't change how a lot of people, on both sides of the aisle, are poorly reacting to this situation without having all the facts. I think a lot of people would be much better served if they just didn't speak, or spoke less. We can all have opinions and want to see the facts come to light without belittling one another or, in some cases, inciting violence on one another.

 

It also doesn't change how this particular tangent is not really germane to gun control at the moment.