'Mansplaining'

[Landlord]

Worth noting,

 

as someone who volunteers on the south side of Chicago in the absolute worst, poorest, most violent parts of the city, I can personally attest that the idea of it being a fair criticism of black culture (as a whole) that they, as a majority, suffer from a dependency and victim mentality is complete and utter bulls#!t. 

 

The only (as a whole) majority thing I can say about it is that they are incomprehensibly trapped, and fighting like hell just to stay afloat. The bootstraps myth is just that; a myth. It is not real. It's ignorant to think that in any way reflects reality, honestly. Way too many people that I know personally, that I've had meals with, played basketball games with, given out school supplies to - are born into complete and total hopelessness. Their only chance of making something for themselves is a system or an organization or a person stepping in and giving them a huge boost up to the point that they can climb out of the pit they had no choice but to start from.

 

I know way more white 'welfare queens' and system abusers in Columbus, Nebraska than I do in Chicago. If we want to talk about entitlements, it'd probably be a lot more useful to start with acknowledging that most of our (white) families and our generational wealth came from massive government entitlements in the past with things like the G.I. Bill and the Homesteaders Act, that blacks and other minorities got excluded from. I guess I have the bootstraps of my great great grandparents to thank. Not that they earned the free land they got or anything like that. But they passed money down through my family from that government handout.

[B.B. Hemingway]

5 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

I just don't get it B.B.  You say this video offends you but you minimize the perspective of anyone who has actual people making sexist or racist comments directly to their faces. This video wasn't even directed at you, but people who have had stuff much worse directed at them personally are overreacting.  

 

What??

 

And for the record, I can understand being offended that it says "To/Dear White men."

 

But I'm not the one who tells everyone else, who have had experiences I've never had, that they're overreacting.

 

I don't get offended often. And I said "a little" offended. More than anything, the hypocrisy bothered me. 

 

People can get offended all they want. My issue with it is how much they expect other people to care. I was a little offended, but I didn't go out and try to enact a cultural shift.

 

 

[zoogs]

You're trying way, way too hard to hang on to that "Black people dependency culture, all because of the Democrats" thing. I don't believe that's actually core to who you are. But as long as it is, you'll be getting rebuke for it -- because it's a ridiculous point, and not because you're white.

 

Something that is rampant is this very view among white people so that, after a national lifetime of efforts to keep black people in their place in this white man's country, we can still bristle at entitlements targeted towards the people-of-color communities that need it most, while simultaneously asking "Hey, what about coal country" / "drug-ridden white communities need help, too". << Just an example, and a bit of a tangent.

 

@teach, we don't, in fact, agree on any of that. But nice try.

@Landlord, wow. Thanks for the perspective! Appreciate what you and Enhance have added to this thread by way of personal stories.

--

Quote

but I didn't go out and try to enact a cultural shift.

 

The obvious reason for this is not comparative virtue, but that you aren't materially on the receiving end of the concerns raised in that video.

[teachercd]

Just now, Landlord said:

Worth noting,

 

as someone who volunteers on the south side of Chicago in the absolute worst, poorest, most violent parts of the city, I can personally attest that the idea of it being a fair criticism of black culture (as a whole) that they, as a majority, suffer from a dependency and victim mentality is complete and utter bulls#!t. 

 

The only (as a whole) majority thing I can say about it is that they are incomprehensibly trapped, and fighting like hell just to stay afloat. The bootstraps myth is a myth. It is not real. Way too many people that I know personally, that I've had meals with, played basketball games with, given out school supplies to - are born into complete and total hopelessness. Their only chance of making something for themselves is a system or an organization or a person stepping in and giving them a huge boost up to the point that they can climb out of the pit they had no choice but to start from.

 

I know way more white 'welfare queens' and system abusers in Columbus, Nebraska than I do in Chicago.

I applaud that!  i do

 

But if you are at a volunteer place...you have never actually seen the worst.  And honestly, don't ever go try and see it.

 

Years ago...before you were in school probably...we got stopped at a red light...around 1am...for no reason we were pulled over...south side area.  Cop came up to us and said "What are you doing?"  we said "Nothing, we were just waiting for the light to turn green"

 

He grinned at us and said "Just go...don't stop here...just go"

 

 

[teachercd]

5 minutes ago, zoogs said:

You're trying way, way too hard to hang on to that "Black people dependency culture, all because of the Democrats" thing. I don't believe that's actually core to who you are. But as long as it is, you'll be getting rebuke for it -- because it's a ridiculous point, and not because you're white.

 

Something that is rampant is this very view among white people so that, after a national lifetime of efforts to keep black people in their place in this white man's country, we can still bristle at entitlements targeted towards the people-of-color communities that need it most, while simultaneously asking "Hey, what about coal country" / "drug-ridden white communities need help, too". << Just an example, and a bit of a tangent.

 

@teach, we don't, in fact, agree on any of that. But nice try.

 

--

 

The obvious reason for this is not comparative virtue, but that you aren't materially on the receiving end of the concerns raised in that video.

No...you are.  It is sad.  You should stop and I asked you to PM and I just tried to PM but it would not let me.

Thanks!  I appreciate that you could admit we agree!

[Moiraine]

1 minute ago, teachercd said:

No...you are.  It is sad.  You should stop and I asked you to PM and I just tried to PM but it would not let me.

 

And so you think that racist reporter is all good?  Odd!

 

 

 

Stop trolling. You were already told to not post here because all you did was troll.

[teachercd]

2 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

Stop trolling. You were already told to not post here because all you did was troll.

I asked them to PM me.  Thanks!

 

Everything I have posted here has been 100% spot on.  I am sorry if you don't think so.  I enjoy your posts!

[B.B. Hemingway]

1 minute ago, Moiraine said:

Sorry BB, but saying it's a "culture problem" is a racist thing that people who don't think they're racist say.

 

You never bothered to reply to my posts the first time I replied to it, btw. Whites do just as many drugs, (and more prescription drugs for non-medical purposes) as Blacks. The biggest factor in single mothers in the Black community is the arrest rate of Blacks for drug related crimes. If the arrest rate was equal, maybe people would be talking about the "White culture" problem.

 

No it's not. See, this is the problem. It's impossible to shine a light on minority issues without being labeled a racist. White people have most certainly had an negative impact on the black community, but a lot of their issues are self-inflicted. Bringing attention to that doesn't make you racist. It just doesn't. lol

 

Hey, I've got white drug-addicts in my family. You won't catch me making any excuses for them. Not one. 

 

So, why not just avoid drugs altogether? This is comical, really. Even if there is a problem with unequal arrest rates, it doesn't take away from your irresponsibility as a father by getting into drugs in the first place. That's an excuse, and nothing more. 

 

And per capita blacks use drugs at a 23% higher clip than white people/general public. So, while America does have a drug problem, it's greatly enhanced in the black community.

[teachercd]

3 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

No it's not. See, this is the problem. It's impossible to shine a light on minority issues without being labeled a racist. White people have most certainly had an negative impact on the black community, but a lot of their issues are self-inflicted. Bringing attention to that doesn't make you racist. It just doesn't. lol

 

Hey, I've got white drug-addicts in my family. You won't catch me making any excuses for them. Not one. 

 

So, why not just avoid drugs altogether? This is comical, really. Even if there is a problem with unequal arrest rates, it doesn't take away from your irresponsibility as a father by getting into drugs in the first place. That's an excuse, and nothing more. 

 

And per capita blacks use drugs at a 23% higher clip than white people/general public. So, while America does have a drug problem, it's greatly enhanced in the black community.

Great post!

[Moiraine]

5 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

No it's not. See, this is the problem. It's impossible to shine a light on minority issues without being labeled a racist. White people have most certainly had an negative impact on the black community, but a lot of their issues are self-inflicted. Bringing attention to that doesn't make you racist. It just doesn't. lol

 

Hey, I've got white drug-addicts in my family. You won't catch me making any excuses for them. Not one. 

 

So, why not just avoid drugs altogether? This is comical, really. Even if there is a problem with unequal arrest rates, it doesn't take away from your irresponsibility as a father by getting into drugs in the first place. That's an excuse, and nothing more. 

 

And per capita blacks use drugs at a 23% higher clip than white people/general public. So, while America does have a drug problem, it's greatly enhanced in the black community.

 

 

 

Post a link to that data please. I already posted data that does not say anything close to that.

 

It's fine to tell people not to do drugs. But it's ridiculous to pretend the single mother issue is just a "Black culture problem" when it's due to an exponentially higher arrest rate for Blacks. Whites are committing the crime at the same rate. So Whites have the same "culture problem."

 

It's a poor problem.

[B.B. Hemingway]

10 minutes ago, zoogs said:

You're trying way, way too hard to hang on to that "Black people dependency culture, all because of the Democrats" thing. I don't believe that's actually core to who you are. But as long as it is, you'll be getting rebuke for it -- because it's a ridiculous point, and not because you're white.

 

It's not a ridiculous point. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, zoogs said:

 

Something that is rampant is this very view among white people so that, after a national lifetime of efforts to keep black people in their place in this white man's country, we can still bristle at entitlements targeted towards the people-of-color communities that need it most, while simultaneously asking "Hey, what about coal country" / "drug-ridden white communities need help, too". << Just an example, and a bit of a tangent.

 

 

Once again, you're generalizing me with media's narrative of what the "white man thinks".  You won't hear me cry for coal (not many jobs in it), or for the druggies in the white community. Though, I do find it interesting that you have no sympathy for those people yourself. A white person, in the exact same situation as their struggling, black counterpart doesn't deserve entitlement because the color of their skin is different? Interesting, for sure.

 

Abuse of entitlements cross all racial lines. Just wanted to be clear where I stood on that.

 

[Landlord]

9 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

No it's not. See, this is the problem. It's impossible to shine a light on minority issues without being labeled a racist. White people have most certainly had an negative impact on the black community, but a lot of their issues are self-inflicted. Bringing attention to that doesn't make you racist. It just doesn't. lol

 

 

One really easy way to do it is to develop a rapport with those communities, and be a part of the solution. That's what I'm doing. Even if this victimhood culture you keep referencing was real and permeated black culture so much (it doesn't), that's still not the entire story, and it's still very difficult for the black people who are working so hard but still started from poverty/with a single parent/in a terrible/school/etc. They still need help.

 

You'd be surprised how many people give you the space to be able to say critical things when you've demonstrated that you love and care about them as people. 

[B.B. Hemingway]

10 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

 

Post a link to that data please. I already posted data that does not say anything close to that.

 

It's fine to tell people not to do drugs. But it's ridiculous to pretend the single mother issue is just a "Black culture problem" when it's due to an exponentially higher arrest rate for Blacks. Whites are committing the crime at the same rate. So Whites have the same "culture problem."

 

It's a poor problem.

 

Here's the link.

 

http://archive.samhsa.gov/data/NSDUH/2012SummNatFindDetTables/DetTabs/NSDUH-DetTabsSect1peTabs1to46-2012.htm#Tab1.1A

 

There's that excuse again "it's due to an exponentially higher arrest rate". You can (and I will) acknowledge that that is most definitely an issue. However, it doesn't excuse him of his responsibility. 

 

The "poor problem" is an excuse just the same. You're poor, so that excuses you (black or white) to use drugs and risk tearing apart your family and ruining their lives? Nope. I have an Aunt that used drugs while pregnant with all three of her kids. Those kids were greatly effected by that. As adults now, You can still see it. So **** her, and **** that excuse.

[B.B. Hemingway]

3 minutes ago, Landlord said:

 

 

One really easy way to do it is to develop a rapport with those communities, and be a part of the solution. That's what I'm doing. Even if this victimhood culture you keep referencing was real and permeated black culture so much (it doesn't), that's still not the entire story, and it's still very difficult for the black people who are working so hard but still started from poverty/with a single parent/in a terrible/school/etc. They still need help.

 

You'd be surprised how many people give you the space to be able to say critical things when you've demonstrated that you love and care about them as people. 

 

I have nothing against black people (to be clear). I'm critical of certain aspects of their culture (the stuff that deserves criticizing, not how they dress, talk, etc.), but that doesn't come front hate. You live in Chicago (i think i remember you saying that), so you've had a lot more interaction with black people than I have, but we've got a number of families in our small Missouri community. So I've had that interaction to a point. Be part of the solution? Hard to do here.

[B.B. Hemingway]

And on that note, I'm done for the night. Quite the discussion. Thanks, all!