The Democrat Utopia

[Archy1221]

4 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

I didn't say his number was wrong. I'm pointing out the total costs because tuition is only a part.

 

There could be ways to reduce some of the costs, for sure. But I'm showing that a 4 year degree can easily cost $100k even going to the in-state public school.

 

I don't think we should just shrug our shoulders about it and make high schoolers (or adults for that matter) decide between not going to college unless their parents are affluent enough or taking on loads of debt.

But I’ve just shown you how a high schooler can go to school debt free and you just blow it off like those options don’t exist.  So many kids choose on-line school and live at home.   So many kids also go to community college (for very cheap) the first two years and then off to a four year school (on line or in person).   It doesn’t take affluent parents or taking on loads of debt.  It takes smart personal choices.  
 

Think outside the box and just the traditional way of doing college in order to reduce the cost. 

[BigRedBuster]

30 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

People could have all kinds of different reasons   A specific school specialty, get further away from home, different experiences. Some states offer pretty enticing scholarships for out of state students. Lots of reasons. In our case, it was the business college and actuarial track at UNL and both her parents attended UNL so we were comfortable with it and could afford it.

 

To be clear I’m not saying many of those reasons are worth running up that kind of debt when there are less costly options. I’m just saying it could easily happen. Hell with the way things are going, it might be worth rolling the dice and hope your student debt is forgiven. I mean that has been the talk.

If you can afford it, fine. 
 

But if you’re sitting in a situation with very little help, every state has a business college.  

[RedDenver]

19 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

But I’ve just shown you how a high schooler can go to school debt free and you just blow it off like those options don’t exist.

Where did you show this? Saying it's possible for some to do it debt free is not all the same as saying all can do it debt free. It's the difference between those 2 groups that makes an enormous difference.

 

19 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

 So many kids choose on-line school and live at home.   So many kids also go to community college (for very cheap) the first two years and then off to a four year school (on line or in person).   It doesn’t take affluent parents or taking on loads of debt.  It takes smart personal choices.  
 

Think outside the box and just the traditional way of doing college in order to reduce the cost. 

Say a kid wants to be an aerospace engineer, how exactly do they do that if they come from a poor family and don't live near a school that offers that? Smart personal choices don't magically make all the cost issues go away even if they can help in some situations.

[JJ Husker]

12 minutes ago, BigRedBuster said:

If you can afford it, fine. 
 

But if you’re sitting in a situation with very little help, every state has a business college.  

 I don’t believe I’ve said anything different. But you’re sort of acting like the general common sense of some (you and me maybe) should be enforced upon others who may have different ideas. Since when has that ever worked in our society? I’d love if we could make a bunch of decisions for other people but……

 

And to be very clear, I am not for forgiving student debt. People entered into that debt freely by their own choice. Doesn’t matter to me if they have $10 or $110,000 student debt. They chose it, they can pay it back.

[Archy1221]

17 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

Where did you show this? Saying it's possible for some to do it debt free is not all the same as saying all can do it debt free. It's the difference between those 2 groups that makes an enormous difference.

 

Say a kid wants to be an aerospace engineer, how exactly do they do that if they come from a poor family and don't live near a school that offers that? Smart personal choices don't magically make all the cost issues go away even if they can help in some situations.

It’s possible to graduate close to debt free for anyone who wants to do it.  No matter their circumstances.   And those poor people you keep referencing are eligible for all kinds of grants.  
 

an aerospace engineer makes on average $118,000 a year.   I would assume an aerospace engineer can figure out how to pay their student debt making $118,000 a year.     If not, then be a mechanical or agriculture or computer engineer and get trained at a state school and still make a great living. 

[teachercd]

1 hour ago, BigRedBuster said:

Maybe there is someone on here that can answer this. I hear about people who get out of college with 100,000 debt for a four year degree. 
 

How and why?

 

I have three kids just about to graduate from college. We’ve had this discussion and even if we weren’t helping them at all, they wouldn’t have anywhere close to that fir under grad. 

Shoot, as you know, you can be an RA after freshman year and dorm for free.

Or move off campus with 5 buds and pay 200 each a month in rent.

 

 

[RedDenver]

8 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

It’s possible to graduate close to debt free for anyone who wants to do it.  No matter their circumstances.   And those poor people you keep referencing are eligible for all kinds of grants.  
 

an aerospace engineer makes on average $118,000 a year.   I would assume an aerospace engineer can figure out how to pay their student debt making $118,000 a year.     If not, then be a mechanical or agriculture or computer engineer and get trained at a state school and still make a great living. 

So you indeed cannot show what you're claiming. And that's my point - this idea that simply apply personal responsibility somehow magically makes college debt-free is simply not true except in some select cases.

[teachercd]

I did my two (humblebrag) Masters degrees through UNK.  Here is what I did.

 

I opened up a Discover card that was interest free for one (maybe two?) years and I f#&%ing loaded up on classes.  First summer 1 class, fall semester 3 classes, spring semester 4 classes, summer semester 4 classes.

 

Then I would just pay it off as I could each month.

[JJ Husker]

6 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

It’s possible to graduate close to debt free for anyone who wants to do it.  No matter their circumstances.   And those poor people you keep referencing are eligible for all kinds of grants.  
 

an aerospace engineer makes on average $118,000 a year.   I would assume an aerospace engineer can figure out how to pay their student debt making $118,000 a year.     If not, then be a mechanical or agriculture or computer engineer and get trained at a state school and still make a great living. 

I’m trying to figure out what the point of this discussion is. Obviously all people can get a higher education without generating ridiculous amounts of debt. I agree with you and would even say it’s much easier for poor folk to get assistance with that education. Rich people don’t have to worry about it and once again the people getting screwed are the middle/upper middle class. I haven’t read much of this thread. Why does anyone care about the amount of debt some people choose?

 

Now if they want to take steps to make higher education more affordable I’m all for that. But forgiving existing debt is bs. Nobody had a gun to their head. Anybody whining about $100k of student debt should’ve looked into their options and chose differently.

[teachercd]

Just now, JJ Husker said:

I’m trying to figure out what the point of this discussion is. Obviously all people can get a higher education without generating ridiculous amounts of debt. I agree with you and would even say it’s much easier for poor folk to get assistance with that education. Rich people don’t have to worry about it and once again the people getting screwed are the middle/upper middle class. I haven’t read much of this thread. Why does anyone care about the amount of debt some people choose?

 

Now if they want to take steps to make higher education more affordable I’m all for that. But forgiving existing debt is bs. Nobody had a gun to their head. Anybody whining about $100k of student debt should’ve looked into their options and chose differently.

You have to remember that you are having people that pretty much agree with you but refuse to admit that they agree.  

 

It is like people that eat that super crazy hot wing sauce...and claim it is not hot.  

[JJ Husker]

5 minutes ago, teachercd said:

You have to remember that you are having people that pretty much agree with you but refuse to admit that they agree.  

 

It is like people that eat that super crazy hot wing sauce...and claim it is not hot.  

[Archy1221]

8 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

I’m trying to figure out what the point of this discussion is. Obviously all people can get a higher education without generating ridiculous amounts of debt. I agree with you and would even say it’s much easier for poor folk to get assistance with that education. Rich people don’t have to worry about it and once again the people getting screwed are the middle/upper middle class. I haven’t read much of this thread. Why does anyone care about the amount of debt some people choose?

 

Now if they want to take steps to make higher education more affordable I’m all for that. But forgiving existing debt is bs. Nobody had a gun to their head. Anybody whining about $100k of student debt should’ve looked into their options and chose differently.

I’m 100% in agreement with everything you said.  I would also add in that student loans should be the same as any other debt, in that bankruptcy should include student loan debt.  
 

As far as the point of my part of the discussion, RedDenver keeps insisting people can’t get through college without loads of debt and won’t acknowledge when I point out it’s possible for anyone who wants to do it.  He keeps saying I’m not showing how it’s done, when I feel I clearly spelled it out a few times so your right and I’m probably beating a dead horse at this point.  

[teachercd]

5 minutes ago, JJ Husker said:

"You think it is hot?  I don't know, I guess I don't notice"

[Archy1221]

44 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

So you indeed cannot show what you're claiming

On-line tuition costs for the University from my home town.  $227 times 15 = $3405per semester.  $3405 X 2 = $6810.   If someone can’t figure out how to pay $6,810 by working during school or…taking out the maximum amount of $6810 X 4= $27,240 in loans.  Who can’t pay back $27,000 in loans after getting a four year degree?  There ya go.  And that’s just one option of doing things.  

 

https://www.fhsu.edu/sfs/students_parents/tuition/fy22-tuition-and-fees.pdf

 

Degree programs. 
 

https://www.fhsu.edu/online/degrees/

[BigRedBuster]

2 hours ago, JJ Husker said:

 I don’t believe I’ve said anything different. But you’re sort of acting like the general common sense of some (you and me maybe) should be enforced upon others who may have different ideas. Since when has that ever worked in our society? I’d love if we could make a bunch of decisions for other people but……

 

And to be very clear, I am not for forgiving student debt. People entered into that debt freely by their own choice. Doesn’t matter to me if they have $10 or $110,000 student debt. They chose it, they can pay it back.

I’m fine if people want to go out of state to an expensive school. But, then don’t run up huge debt and then expect it to be forgiven.  
 

This whole discussion is about going to school without huge debt.  Going to an out of state school goes against that.