The Democrat Utopia

[commando]

4 hours ago, funhusker said:

 

Awwwwe  look.  He's trying to pretend that the first Trump Impeachment was about Russia and a "hoax".....

 

So cute!

and he doesn't ever condemn trump and his cronies for their stolen election hoax.   

[Archy1221]

9 minutes ago, commando said:

and he doesn't ever condemn trump and his cronies for their stolen election hoax.   

Ummmm yeah I did.  Look back I what I post before you lie about it again please.   Once the late Nov/early Dec election lawsuits showed no illegal election tampering, I’ve said elected officials need to get over it and stop with illegal election stuff.   Please quit lying about what I post.  

[NM11046]

24 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

And some think he should pay more. Laughable.

 

 

Yeah - when you cash in stock that's taxed as income (which he's had to do plenty this year with his corporate trading plan and that hokey twitter poll).  

 

Somewhat makes up for some of the years he paid nothing I guess.  He makes ~36 billion a day.  Its' important to put that number $11 billion into perspective.

 

So I'm really ok with this.  REALLY ok.  

 

 

 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

7 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

Yeah - when you cash in stock that's taxed as income (which he's had to do plenty this year with his corporate trading plan and that hokey twitter poll).  

 

Somewhat makes up for some of the years he paid nothing I guess.  He makes ~36 billion a day.  Its' important to put that number $11 billion into perspective.

 

So I'm really ok with this.  REALLY ok.  

 

 

 

 

 

As he has stated multiple times, most of his money isn't exactly liquid. 

Nobody should be handing over $11 billion in a single year to s fiscally irresponsible government. It's absurd. 

[RedDenver]

28 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

And some think he should pay more. Laughable.

 

 

Musk is worth around $250 billion (goes up and down with Tesla stock value and peaked at $318 billion a month ago). That $11 billion is about 4% of his net worth.

 

Musk's worth increased about $100 billion over 2021. That $11 billion is only about 11% of the increase in his wealth in 2021.

 

So now he's way down to about $239 billion. Some think he shouldn't be taxed more. Laughable.

[B.B. Hemingway]

Just now, RedDenver said:

Musk is worth around $250 billion (goes up and down with Tesla stock value and peaked at $318 billion a month ago). That $11 billion is about 4% of his net worth.

 

Musk's worth increased about $100 billion over 2021. That $11 billion is only about 11% of the increase in his wealth in 2021.

 

So now he's way down to about $239 billion. Some think he shouldn't be taxed more. Laughable.

 

The government's incredibly irresponsible spending over decades is the problem. Not Elon Musk. $11 billion is ridiculous, and I'd be fine if he never paid another penny. 

 

Also, there's a massive difference between being worth $200 billion + and HAVING $200 billion +.... I don't feel sorry for Elon. He'll be fine. But any criticism, or cries of unfairness when it comes to taxes paid  are hilarious. 

[NM11046]

5 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

As he has stated multiple times, most of his money isn't exactly liquid. 

Nobody should be handing over $11 billion in a single year to s fiscally irresponsible government. It's absurd. 

That tax is based on what he cashed in.  He took home cash money from stocks and he was taxed on it.  Every one of us (or I assume most of us on HB) pays taxes based on what we earn; whether that's salary, hourly wage or stock trades.  He should have to as well.

 

It's a huge number I agree, but it's based on what he cashed.  Believe me I've gotten the sticker shock come tax time on shares I've sold - sucks to write the check, but I got the money, and I know to make sure I hold a bunch back to pay the man.  I think I pay something like 35-40% tax on company stock cash outs ' - I'd hope he is paying the same.

[commando]

22 minutes ago, Archy1221 said:

Ummmm yeah I did.  Look back I what I post before you lie about it again please.   Once the late Nov/early Dec election lawsuits showed no illegal election tampering, I’ve said elected officials need to get over it and stop with illegal election stuff.   Please quit lying about what I post.  

you say they need to get over it.   but do you condemn all of those still not over it?   not much that i see.    instead you constantly put on your shining armor and grab your sword and ride in  to defend trump anytime someone says anything negative about him.    and you don't support the commission trying to determine exactly what trump and his sycophants knew and did leading up to jan 6.  the fact that they are all in contempt of congress and/or pleading the 5th tells me they knew and did a lot to be condemned for.     but you continue the what aboutism with the dems anytime anything comes up to tarnish trump.   forgive me if i think your few negative comments about trump are performative art at best.   

[RedDenver]

Just now, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

The government's incredibly irresponsible spending over decades is the problem.Not Elon Musk.

That's a matter of opinion but I'd take our collective spending over any single person having absolutely absurd levels of wealth. He's basically a real-life Smaug.

 

Just now, B.B. Hemingway said:

$11 billion is ridiculous, and I'd be fine if he never paid another penny. 

That $11 billion is WAY less ridiculous than $250 billion or even the $239 billion AFTER paying those taxes.

 

The government could tax Musk at 99% of his wealth and he'd still be a multi-billionaire worth about $2.5 billion.

 

Just now, B.B. Hemingway said:

Also, there's a massive difference between being worth $200 billion + and HAVING $200 billion +.... I don't feel sorry for Elon. He'll be fine. But any criticism, or cries of unfairness when it comes to taxes paid  are hilarious. 

The "let them eat cake" defense - still bad centuries later.

 

If there were no people starving or going homeless from lack of money, then Elon would be free of criticism. But if we're going to talk about "unfairness" he's literally the post child for it.

[Guy Chamberlin]

16 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

As he has stated multiple times, most of his money isn't exactly liquid. 

Nobody should be handing over $11 billion in a single year to s fiscally irresponsible government. It's absurd. 

 

That would be the same government that has given Musk subsidies, bailouts, and contracts for several years now.

 

Absolutely incredible that these f#&%ers can convince hard-working Americans they're the victim.

 

To be honest, I dig a lot of Musk's business choices and bravado. But I sure hope he's not looking for pity with that perfectly reasonable tax bill. 

 

 

These opportunities to leverage government programs, some designed for people much further down the income ladder, have driven Musk throughout his career: The megabillionaire built his companies on the backs of enormous government subsidies, tax breaks, and exclusive contracts. A 2015 Los Angeles Times investigation estimated that Tesla, SolarCity, and SpaceX had together benefited from “$4.9 billion in government support.” That included, for example, a $465 million low-interest loan from the Department of Energy in 2010 that helped Tesla ride out the effects of the Great Recession. Since then, Texas’s Travis County has offered a $14.7 million (at minimum) tax break for the building of a Tesla factory. A Nevada factory was built on the promise of up to $1.3 billion in tax benefits over two decades. Musk has also played government officials off one another, dangling the next proposed Tesla “gigafactory” as a prize for whoever offers the best inducements.

Musk’s companies even dipped into the $600 billion bucket of cash that Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin held out for corporations in the early days of the pandemic. As Business Insider reported in July, while Musk spent his time tweeting against government aid for individuals, Tesla received its own tranche from the bailout fund. (A June 2020 Securities and Exchange Commission filing doesn’t specify how much money Tesla received, only that it “received certain payroll related benefits.”) Also in July, Musk tweeted that “another government stimulus package is not in the best interests of the people imo,” before going on to explain, in apparent contradiction, that he was in favor of a universal basic income.

from a stimulus package, is characteristic of Musk’s hypocrisy and political ignorance. Musk bends markets to his will and crushes unionization efforts but calls himself a socialist. At other times, he plays the libertarian—ranting against the intrusive hand of big government and claiming to be self-made despite the government handouts (and tens of thousands of dollars in seed money from his emerald mine–owning parents).

 

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

12 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

That's a matter of opinion but I'd take our collective spending over any single person having absolutely absurd levels of wealth. He's basically a real-life Smaug.

 

That $11 billion is WAY less ridiculous than $250 billion or even the $239 billion AFTER paying those taxes.

 

The government could tax Musk at 99% of his wealth and he'd still be a multi-billionaire worth about $2.5 billion.

 

The "let them eat cake" defense - still bad centuries later.

 

If there were no people starving or going homeless from lack of money, then Elon would be free of criticism. But if we're going to talk about "unfairness" he's literally the post child for it.

 

He's worth $239 billion because he built something. It wasn't by chance, or luck.

 

The starving and the homeless are far from the responsibility of a man who is already going to give more to the human race than he'll ever take. The "you can't be rich if there's poor people" argument is a joke. 

 

5 minutes ago, Guy Chamberlin said:

 

That would be the same government that has given Musk subsidies, bailouts, and contracts for several years now.

 

Absolutely incredible that these f#&%ers can convince hard-working Americans they're the victim.

 

To be honest, I dig a lot of Musk's business choices and bravado. But I sure hope he's not looking for pity with that perfectly reasonable tax bill. 

 

 

These opportunities to leverage government programs, some designed for people much further down the income ladder, have driven Musk throughout his career: The megabillionaire built his companies on the backs of enormous government subsidies, tax breaks, and exclusive contracts. A 2015 Los Angeles Times investigation estimated that Tesla, SolarCity, and SpaceX had together benefited from “$4.9 billion in government support.” That included, for example, a $465 million low-interest loan from the Department of Energy in 2010 that helped Tesla ride out the effects of the Great Recession. Since then, Texas’s Travis County has offered a $14.7 million (at minimum) tax break for the building of a Tesla factory. A Nevada factory was built on the promise of up to $1.3 billion in tax benefits over two decades. Musk has also played government officials off one another, dangling the next proposed Tesla “gigafactory” as a prize for whoever offers the best inducements.

Musk’s companies even dipped into the $600 billion bucket of cash that Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin held out for corporations in the early days of the pandemic. As Business Insider reported in July, while Musk spent his time tweeting against government aid for individuals, Tesla received its own tranche from the bailout fund. (A June 2020 Securities and Exchange Commission filing doesn’t specify how much money Tesla received, only that it “received certain payroll related benefits.”) Also in July, Musk tweeted that “another government stimulus package is not in the best interests of the people imo,” before going on to explain, in apparent contradiction, that he was in favor of a universal basic income.

from a stimulus package, is characteristic of Musk’s hypocrisy and political ignorance. Musk bends markets to his will and crushes unionization efforts but calls himself a socialist. At other times, he plays the libertarian—ranting against the intrusive hand of big government and claiming to be self-made despite the government handouts (and tens of thousands of dollars in seed money from his emerald mine–owning parents).

 

 

 

I was pretty clear that I didn't feel sorry for Musk, so clearly I don't see him as a victim. I only find it laughable that people, most of which probably pay almost nothing in income tax, are being critical of someone who is writing a $11 billion check to government.

 

And subsidies aren't exclusive to Elon Musk. There are plenty of us hard working Americans that benefit from government subsidies, contracts, and programs.

 

Again. I don't feel sorry for him. I just find the criticism of him to be quite funny.

[teachercd]

Yeah, I am for a flat tax, but a dude paying 11 billion in taxes is insane...the crazier part is some people that are still mad that he doesn't pay more.

 

With that said, since he f#&%ed me on Dogecoin he can pay more!  

[B.B. Hemingway]

24 minutes ago, NM11046 said:

That tax is based on what he cashed in.  He took home cash money from stocks and he was taxed on it.  Every one of us (or I assume most of us on HB) pays taxes based on what we earn; whether that's salary, hourly wage or stock trades.  He should have to as well.

 

It's a huge number I agree, but it's based on what he cashed.  Believe me I've gotten the sticker shock come tax time on shares I've sold - sucks to write the check, but I got the money, and I know to make sure I hold a bunch back to pay the man.  I think I pay something like 35-40% tax on company stock cash outs ' - I'd hope he is paying the same.

 

I would guess that most of the HB members pay little to nothing in income tax every year, because most Americans don't.

[NM11046]

3 minutes ago, B.B. Hemingway said:

 

I would guess that most of the HB members pay little to nothing in income tax every year, because most Americans don't.

I just had to look that up - I had no idea that it was 61% that didn't pay!  Learned something new today!!

 

But BB - help me understand, do you think that Joe the GE worker that gets a handful of stock options each year should pay the same amount of tax on those as the Pharmaceutical CEO?  I'm trying to get my head around your opinions on this.

[Archy1221]

28 minutes ago, commando said:

you say they need to get over it.   but do you condemn all of those still not over it?   not much that i see.    instead you constantly put on your shining armor and grab your sword and ride in  to defend trump anytime someone says anything negative about him.    and you don't support the commission trying to determine exactly what trump and his sycophants knew and did leading up to jan 6.  the fact that they are all in contempt of congress and/or pleading the 5th tells me they knew and did a lot to be condemned for.     but you continue the what aboutism with the dems anytime anything comes up to tarnish trump.   forgive me if i think your few negative comments about trump are performative art at best.   

Not forgiven